[Balance] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul) - Page 3

Melador · 12/07/11, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Thelothian

A question about the addons.
If a player had difficulties seeing all proc / debuffs active (cause by vision problems, lack of concentration, etc ...) what addons you might recommend? Theoretically, the ideal add-on would be a tool that shows clear and visible signs near the character. This might help finish the rotation and refresh DOTs just before expiring. Maybe something less generic than Power Auras or Forte would be better... Any suggestions?

I use TellMeWhen to build a couple bars that contain all my most pertinent cooldowns/buffs and put it right next to my eclipse bar. One has (target)IS, (target)MF, (target)SF, Shooting Stars proc, Starsuge cooldown, FoN cooldown, Starfall cooldown. The other has all the temporary buffs so I can at-a-glance see how powerful my dot refreshes will be -- Nature's Grace, Bloodlust, and all my gear procs.

Hidden · 12/08/11, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Devourer

Based on just raw number conversion, offset Resto chest is a small DPS increase from having offset Resto shoulders. Can anyone double check this for me? It was basically a ~9 DPS increase to have the chest instead of shoulders.

That's for single target only. Basically you choose between Haste/Crit and Mastery/Mastery. For single target you get slightly more DPS by going Haste/Crit but you lose lots of AoE damage compared to Mastery/Mastery. So you'll want to go for the restoration shoulders for any encounter you can make use of wild mushrooms in.

nephyron · 12/08/11, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Tecton

Can you clarify the setup you are using to achieve this figure?

The profile I'm actually using as BiS is:
Deep Earth Cover (Heroic) 126 spirit -> mastery
Petrified Fungal Heart (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Mantle (Heroic) 99 spirit -> haste
Woundlicker Cover 73 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Vestment (Heroic) 143 mastery -> haste
Mycosynth Wristguards (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Gloves (Heroic) -> enchanted with 50 haste, no reforge
Girdle of the Grotesque (Heroic) 96 spirit -> haste
Deep Earth Leggings (Heroic)
Treads of Sordid Screams (Heroic) 102 spirit -> haste, enchanted with 50 haste
Ring of the Riven (Heroic)
Signet of Suturing (Heroic)
Insignia of the Corrupted Mind (Heroic)
Will of Unbinding (Heroic)
Dragonwrath Tarecgosa's Rest 125 hit -> mastery
Mindbender Lens 31 crit -> mastery

2 points in Blessing of the Grove, DI enabled with 90% uptime, no Focus Magic, all epic gems fitting socket color
IS: Once each Eclipse
MF: Once each Eclipse
Starfall: During Lunar, 1 Target
Starsurge: Always

Class Night Elf, Professions Alchemy and Jewelcrafting
This nets me
50407,07 DPS
2806 Haste
2023 Mastery
5 points over hit cap

The profile I'm using for the 3101 breakpoint is:
Deep Earth Cover (Heroic) 126 spirit -> mastery
Petrified Fungal Heart (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Mantle (Heroic) 99 spirit -> haste
Woundlicker Cover
Deep Earth Vestment (Heroic) 143 mastery -> haste
Bracers of Flowing Serenity 66 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Gloves (Heroic) -> enchanted with 50 haste, no reforge
Girdle of the Grotesque (Heroic) 96 spirit -> haste
Deep Earth Leggings (Heroic)
Boots of Fungoid Growth 86 spirit -> mastery, enchanted with 50 haste
Ring of the Riven (Heroic)
Signet of Suturing (Heroic) 67 spirit -> 67 mastery
Insignia of the Corrupted Mind (Heroic)
Will of Unbinding (Heroic)
Dragonwrath Tarecgosa's Rest 125 hit -> mastery
Mindbender Lens 31 crit -> spirit

2 points in Blessing of the Grove, DI enabled with 90% uptime, no Focus Magic, all epic gems fitting socket color except for belt that has 3 orange reckless
IS: Once each Eclipse
MF: Once each Eclipse
Starfall: During Lunar, 1 Target
Starsurge: Always

Class Night Elf, Professions Alchemy and Jewelcrafting
This nets me
49995,77 DPS
3101 Haste
1959 Mastery
3 points under hit cap

I don't know which one i should choose..the second one gives me a little less dps, but i can achieve the 3101 breakpoint when i don't have Dark Intent
That's the reason i don't know if I should socket the VP boots with the first epic gems i have looted or not

Brinohm · 12/08/11, 1:09 PM

Has anyone been using RAWR to optimize their gear? I've noticed it lately seeming to move quite a bit of reforging over into Crit rather than Haste or Mastery and wondered if I should trust it or not. When it suggested reforging haste into crit, I was getting a bit leery of following on with it's recommendations.

Also, has anyone been using Will of Unbinding (384)? I'm trying to decide if the int proc is worth replacing the 384 Charged Capacitor trink in conjunction with Insignia (384), that haste proc on Insignia just seems to good to pass up.

♦ Tecton · 12/08/11, 3:01 PM

Originally Posted by nephyron

:snip

Are you using Glyph of Insect Swarm at the same time as Starfall in Lunar only? Because without GoSS, you have to have Starfall on CD, as the cycle is too short to get Starfall every time otherwise. That looks to be inflating your figures.

Slippykins · 12/08/11, 9:31 PM

**4.3.2 note: With the 4.3.2 PTR changes, WrathCalcs has spat out a few different numbers, I don't know whether it's due to the tier 4-set bonus changing, or something else, but the gear has been modified for the non-DI set. Namely, both sets now have the same gear, with a few nuances in gemming, but all else is the same... except DI.

----------------------------------------------------------

I had to tweak my DI build a little bit as I couldn't get the reforging done as well as I'd liked. On the shoulders and boots I reforged Spirit -> Mastery over Crit, as there was way too much spirit as a whole.

T13H BiS w/ DI build: 51675 DPS

Profiler - Wowhead

T13H BiS w/o DI build: 49424 DPS

Profiler - Wowhead

I'm trying to post this around to see if others can correct me on anything. I have done a multitude of tests on either spec, and I'll try to list them in case anyone thinks of them. I'll also update the list as I test more stuff.

DI build:

Reaching 3782 Haste breakpoint is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Treads of Sordid Screams] with [Boots of Fungoid Growth] is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Girdle of the Grotesque] with [Belt of Universal Curing] is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Mycosynth Wristguards] with [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] is a DPS loss.
Any combination of the above 3 items is a compounding DPS loss.
Swapping [Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest] with any Deathwing weapon is a DPS loss.
Inconclusive whether [Cunning of the Cruel] will be better on AoE-heavy fights.
50 Haste to gloves is a 58 DPS increase over 65 Mastery.
**new: With a new reforging method, 1742 hit is achieved. Haste sits at 3000, and DPS has increased significantly. Glyph of Rebirth has been changed to Glyph of Focus, due to the Dragon Soul fights favouring Focus.

non-DI build:

Reaching 3101 Haste breakpoint is a DPS gain.
Swapping [Girdle of the Grotesque] with [Belt of Universal Curing] is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Mycosynth Wristguards] with [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest] with any Deathwing weapon is a DPS loss.
Inconclusive whether [Cunning of the Cruel] will be better on AoE-heavy fights.
**new: Swapping [Treads of Sordid Screams] with [Boots of Fungoid Growth] is a DPS loss. This change will only be valid once the 4.3.2 tier changes go live. More information at: The Moonkin Repository • View topic - Gearing in 4.3
**new: After attempting to find a better reforging method, the current one seems to stand as the best, with 15 hit over the cap. I can get the cap down to around 6 over the cap, however this sacrifices a little bit of haste and proves to be a DPS loss. No better reforging method has been found (yet).

qae · 12/08/11, 10:52 PM

Are you sure that [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] are lower dps than [Mycosynth Wristguards] with full epic gems in the sockets?

I see that your profiles use Brilliant inferno rubies, but since [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] has one more slot, epic gemming favor them.

They seem really close in value to me once gemmed with [Brilliant Queen's Garnet], and easily superior if you need the haste for the non-DI build

Slippykins · 12/08/11, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by qae

Are you sure that [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] are lower dps than [Mycosynth Wristguards] with full epic gems in the sockets?

I see that your profiles use Brilliant inferno rubies, but since [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] has one more slot, epic gemming favor them.

(also, make sure you didn't forget the +20 INT socket bonus)

The WoWhead profiler doesn't let me put in epic gems, so I have to deal with just the rare gems. When I tested [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] in WrathCalcs, I made sure to put in the epic gems and a +20 Int socket bonus. I posted my results on The Moonkin Repository:

Original Mycosynth vs. Flowing post:

Originally Posted by Slip

Originally Posted by Eluial

Just curious why H Mycosynth Wristguards are being picked over Bracers of Flowing Serenity

Assuming epic gems, Serenity has 4 more int (not counting the socket bonus... it's probably 10 int, so 14 more int) and more haste. Am I missing something? Are people devaluing haste with a DI build?

I tested Bracers of Flowing Serenity in my DI build, adding 10 Intellect as a socket bonus, and WrathCalcs spits out 50495 DPS, and with H Mycosynth Wristguards WrathCalcs spits out 50632 DPS.

Not a very big margin, and the stat differences are (assuming epic gems):

H Mycosynth Wristguards from Bracers of Flowing Serenity

Intellect = 286 + 50 + 10 - (231 + 50 + 50 + 10) = 5
Haste = 81 - 152 = -71
Spirit = 122 - 167 = -45
Mastery = 179 - 0 = 179

If we assume spirit and mastery have the same stat weights since we reforge in and out of them synonymously (from Hamlet's EJ thread):

Bracers of Flowing Serenity 71 Haste vs. 134 Mastery + 5 Int H Mycosynth Wristguards

In this case, we're gaining roughly double the amount of stats in mastery vs. haste, and I think this should account for the 130 DPS.

Also, this is apparent for both the DI and non-DI build. The non-DI build with the crafted bracers is 48283 DPS, down from 48442 DPS. That's kind of surprising that you lose more DPS in the non-DI build, but I checked it by manually adding the stat changes, and sure enough it came to 48283 again. I'm not sure what causes such a difference, you might be able to find out though. :p

Then I altered the socket bonus from 10 Int to 20 Int, but it didn't make much of a difference.

Originally Posted by Slip

Originally Posted by Elrahd

Minor note, but Flowing Serenity socket bonus got buffed to +20 int - 6/12/11 Hotfix

MMO-Champion - Dragon Soul US First Kills, December 6 Hotfixes, Blizzard Sales, Blue Posts, TCG Art

Still mainly a 71 haste vs 134 mastery discussion.

With a 20 Int socket bonus:

T13H BiS w/ DI: 50544 DPS (loss of 97 DPS)
T13H BiS w/o DI: 48329 DPS (loss of 113 DPS)

Mycosynth is still marginally better in the DI setup, and would be favoured in an AoE fight, but it's a substantial upgrade for the non-DI build, AoE or not.

Devourer · 12/09/11, 12:34 AM

I just received my 4P bonus and it sims as a DPS loss over 2T12/2T13 by a very, very, very small margin (within the standard deviaton). Is 4P really worth absolutely nothing besides stat gain?

nse360 · 12/09/11, 2:36 AM

Just curious what you guys are doing on Madness for killing bloods. My guild is killing Green -> Red -> Blue -> Yellow and we're having trouble burning the bloods down without the 20% buff. When they spawn we finish the Blistering Tentacles and then let the bloods full heal before we start on them. I'm in solar and put down mushrooms as the tank groups them and then burst followed by hurricane. Worth Sunfiring them or no?

Here's the damage taken from all our attempts - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Any suggestions other than leaving Blue buff up the longest?

Lambach · 12/09/11, 3:26 AM

Ive heard of doing red last but never yellow last. What is the reasoning for that? It seems almost nonsensical.

Slippykins · 12/09/11, 3:40 AM

Originally Posted by Devourer

I just received my 4P bonus and it sims as a DPS loss over 2T12/2T13 by a very, very, very small margin (within the standard deviaton). Is 4P really worth absolutely nothing besides stat gain?

Our 4pc T13 is shocking. The best upgrade you can make, transition-wise, would be 4pc T12H to 4pc T13H. The only reason we get T13 4pc is for the stat upgrade, as you said. Also, what seems to be the best with 4pc is swapping Glyph of IS for Glyph of Starsurge, allowing us to get in a Starfall each Lunar eclipse.

Originally Posted by nse360

Just curious what you guys are doing on Madness for killing bloods. My guild is killing Green -> Red -> Blue -> Yellow and we're having trouble burning the bloods down without the 20% buff. When they spawn we finish the Blistering Tentacles and then let the bloods full heal before we start on them. I'm in solar and put down mushrooms as the tank groups them and then burst followed by hurricane. Worth Sunfiring them or no?

Here's the damage taken from all our attempts - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Any suggestions other than leaving Blue buff up the longest?

We had big issues with killing bloods when we didn't leave Blue up the whole time. We managed to get them down with some heavy-AoE specs (feral kitty, hunter), and eventually got them down - then died to Cataclysm. Our platform order ended up being Green -> Red -> Yellow -> Blue. We wiped 4 times tonight, did a flawless 5th attempt and got him down easily. You have to remember the 20% damage buff isn't what really matters with the Blue buff, it's Spell Weaving, which does a huge amount of AoE damage to the bloods. We also prioritised the Blistering Tentacles, so some bloods ended up full healing, but that's not a big deal.

It's not really worth Sunfiring them I find. I do mushrooms, explode and then by the time I try to cast Hurricane the bloods are already dead. Otherwise, if you're doing that and they aren't dying it's not your fault.

Looking at your logs, since Wild Mushrooms are the biggest damage on the bloods (besides Spell Weaving), you're doing perfectly fine. Since the AoE damage from other people is comparatively lower, you might wanna consider leaving Blue up last. The Bolt is definitely survivable and heal-throughable if there's a raid wall up for when it hits.

Devourer · 12/09/11, 4:34 AM

Well, I simmed 2P T13 as a DPS upgrade by about 300 DPS so I swapped. What is the DPS increase from having Starsurge Glyph given that we would only average 6 Starsurge a minute?

It sims at a 500 DPS loss.

How come when other classes look at their 2P or 4P, they go "Oh my god! That looks so good!" Balance look at their tier and have a negative reaction to what they see. Again, simming as one of the lowest DPS classes. I don't understand how Blizzard constantly overlooks us. (Mages go from Arcane top, to Fire top, Balance goes from like 6th worst, to 3rd worst.)

nse360 · 12/09/11, 5:41 AM

Originally Posted by Lambach

Ive heard of doing red last but never yellow last. What is the reasoning for that? It seems almost nonsensical.

We were 2 healing with a bad comp so our healer that tried to stay with the tank when the meteor hit was getting gibbed and we didn't have a spare external for him. Ideally we'd be doing Blue last.

qae · 12/09/11, 11:02 AM

Regarding the bloods on Madness, I did some testing with the Spell Weaving proc (20k splash damage), and you shouldn't use Hurricane since it doesn't proc it.

Starfall will, as well as Mushrooms(basically doubling the explosion), and once that is done you can spamm Moonfire/Sunfire on the bloods to get spell weaving proc until they are dead (seems to proc on DoT as well as direct damage).

On a sidenote, Mind sear seems to provide a lot of Spell Weaving procs, so if you have trouble killing the bloods, ask your disc/holy priest to help!
Also, resto druids will get a nice Mushroom explosion as well.