[Balance] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul) - Page 8

Hidden · 12/31/11, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Stommped

Well the last thing I do before the tendon spawns is drop Treants then IS a random blood or high tentacle, that way the IS on the tentacle has NG; I could Starfall in between Treants and IS but then you are talking about losing 3-4 seconds of it which seems sketchy.

Also the only way you can get close to Lunar Eclipse is if you don't reapply when you are leaving Eclipse which you should since IS also buffs Wrath with the 2pc. Mastery was close enough to Haste anyways, I'm pretty sure it pulls ahead in 23second burst rotation w/ 70-80% Eclipse uptime depending on how fast your staff takes you out.

Most Starfall hits won't even hit the tendon since there are usually >2 targets up. Even if that wasn't the case you seem to vastly overvalue Starfall - if every single hit hits the tendon you're talking about ~80k DPCT vs 40k DPCT of Wrath in solar eclipse (both values are BiS gear). That means you only need 5 seconds of "free" Starfall to match a full Starfall that delays a Wrath. If you factor in that only maybe half of Starfall's hits will hit the tendon (assuming 4 targets in range), that means you actually gain no tendon damage at all from using Starfall instead of Wrath while using it 5 seconds before would still get you roughly 25k damage for free.

Besides that, unless DoTs now tick while the tendon is under a spine again, it's not worth refreshing DoTs for 3-4 seconds of uptime. An additional 3% damage on two nukes doesn't change that.

Stommped · 01/01/12, 2:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hidden

Most Starfall hits won't even hit the tendon since there are usually >2 targets up. Even if that wasn't the case you seem to vastly overvalue Starfall - if every single hit hits the tendon you're talking about ~80k DPCT vs 40k DPCT of Wrath in solar eclipse (both values are BiS gear). That means you only need 5 seconds of "free" Starfall to match a full Starfall that delays a Wrath. If you factor in that only maybe half of Starfall's hits will hit the tendon (assuming 4 targets in range), that means you actually gain no tendon damage at all from using Starfall instead of Wrath while using it 5 seconds before would still get you roughly 25k damage for free.

Besides that, unless DoTs now tick while the tendon is under a spine again, it's not worth refreshing DoTs for 3-4 seconds of uptime. An additional 3% damage on two nukes doesn't change that.

They dont but, even if you just refresh Sunfire, it will be up for 5 seconds which is somewhere between 3-4 ticks. Lets say 3 ticks, an average of 8-9k per tick plus the additional 8-9k of the initial hit, assuming 0 WOT procs the uneclipsed Wrath that you would gain by not refreshing would have to hit for 32-36k to be comparable. Why would you not refresh?

Imbachance · 01/01/12, 9:41 AM

by my experience on tendons refreshing dots is a waste, the tendon is up exactly for 20 seconds. I start doing this... Use trinket + Detonate + IS +SF... , assuming I start at the second 0.3 I lose about 2-2.5seconds of IS and 1.5-2seconds of SF, that means 1-2 hit of IS and 1 hit of SF. i think that the only possible way it would be a dps gain is if it procs shooting stars. About starfall... i use it 1-2 seconds before tendon open, i'm using focus gliph and moving to melee but sometimes starfall don't even hit tendon (soooooo many bloods) so it's a really big dps loss using it when tendon is already open. Another thing about trinkets... i'm obviously using valor point trinket but i don't know if i should use VPLChc or lfrWoU. Using VPLC means starfall could be a dps loss if it procs to any other thing messing around but i'm quite sure it will be a dps gain on single target and solar eclipse... guess some rng come to this...
I'm gonna try full mastery tonight probably with VPLChc so i'll talk about my impressions but i have a question... Does VPLC proc from WoT ?

Stommped · 01/01/12, 5:07 PM

The tendon is up for 23 seconds, unless it is different on 10man. 18 second dots, means you lose 5 seconds of dot uptime.

Tharagorth · 01/01/12, 5:52 PM

I have a small question. I'm looking at the DoT haste numbers on the spreadsheet that was linked, and I found out that if I take an Elixir of Might speed (+225 haste) ill will be on 3646+ haste rating (with DI) and thus having an extra tick. Is it worth though going for the extra tick opposed to gaining 300 int from a flask?

Thanks in advance for answers!

Imbachance · 01/01/12, 7:28 PM

Originally Posted by Stommped

The tendon is up for 23 seconds, unless it is different on 10man. 18 second dots, means you lose 5 seconds of dot uptime.

i'm talking about spine 10hc , it's exactly 20 secs, and i'm quite sure 25hc is the same (dunno in normal mode) so refreshing it's worthless.

Today i've been trying with 3117 haste 1841mastery (about 350haste reforged to mastery) and i did better numbers than with full haste so i'll try without capping 3101 to see what happen... By the way , i'm using Tazik shocker on my gloves Tazik Shocker - Spell - World of Warcraft I'm sure it's affected by solar eclipse and i'm doing about 9k with it.

Stommped · 01/02/12, 5:08 AM

Originally Posted by Imbachance

i'm talking about spine 10hc , it's exactly 20 secs, and i'm quite sure 25hc is the same (dunno in normal mode) so refreshing it's worthless.

You need to check again; the duration is 23 seconds for both 10/25. You maybe lose ~1 second from human reaction and targeting it.

Imbachance · 01/02/12, 9:31 AM

Originally Posted by Stommped

You need to check again; the duration is 23 seconds for both 10/25. You maybe lose ~1 second from human reaction and targeting it.

Just watch the nameplate

Incredible Miracle vs Spine of Death Wing (10man Heroic / Holy pala pov) - YouTube ( 2:02-2:22 5:57-6:17)
KIN Raiders Vs Spine of Death Wing World First Kill (25man Heroic) - YouTube (3:05-3:25 6:54-7:14 10:48-11:08)

Stommped · 01/02/12, 5:15 PM

There's no mathematical sense for haste to be superior to mastery when you are in Eclipse for 60-70% of the tendon's life. There's no way you can get to Lunar without very favorable staff procs.

moejalloul · 01/03/12, 7:39 AM

Other than legendary item, what is BIS 397 or 403 2handed or 1handed item drop for moonkin?

• Hamlet · 01/03/12, 4:21 PM

Buff to 4T13, now increases Starsurge damage by 10% as well. Will toss into WC sometime.

But roughly, Starsurge is around 10% of our output--so this adds about 1% to the value of the bonus. And its value beforehand was close to nil so, can only imagine it's still rather subpar.

MMO-Champion - Patch 4.3.2 on Test Realms

adrsol · 01/03/12, 4:40 PM

Even with the SS Glyph? With a CD 1/3 shorter then the dmg should be around 15%. Idk how will affect the overall dmg without IS or Wrath Glyph tho.

Xdoctor · 01/03/12, 5:55 PM

Even if the damage was 15% of ours it would still only be a 1.5% dps gain. A nifty little bonus, but nothing major.

And the glyph wouldn't add a bonus to the damage of starsurge, so 10% damage bonus wouldn't change the results from the sims people did before.

Bemxuu · 01/04/12, 9:46 AM

And, btw, reduction of 5 seconds doesn't mean we start SSing 1,5 times as often due to Shooting Stars procs.

moejalloul · 01/04/12, 3:28 PM

Can some one answers my question :
Question 1 : What is BIS main hand weapon ? One handed 397 with offhand or 2 handed weapon from DS.. I currently have the 2handed 403 staff Titac steps of time and i dont feel it is THAT strong.
Question 2: I feel for AOE it is better to go with curent tier 13, but for single target i think it is better with tier 12