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Old 01/15/12, 4:03 PM   #106
Thedave
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Night Elf Druid
 
Moonrunner
Searing Plasma & Procs

Just a quick summary note for procs and Searing Plasma:
  • Firebloom (4pc T12) does NOT proc if you Swiftmend a player with Searing Plasma
  • [Windward Heart] DOES proc onto Searing Targets
  • [Maw of the Dragonlord] DOES proc onto Searing Targets (as long as they're in range of the proc)

Verification for the Heart:


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Old 01/16/12, 8:10 AM   #107
faa
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Thedave View Post
Just a quick summary note for procs and Searing Plasma:[*]Firebloom (4pc T12) does NOT proc if you Swiftmend a player with Searing Plasma
Probably because it's being counted as an absorbed heal so cancelling any chance of going onto another player.

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Old 01/16/12, 8:17 AM   #108
faa
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by LupeN View Post
Its viable to reforge our spirit to mastery to empower harmony, due weakness of bennefit we get from spirit? Anyone check this?
It depends on the fight and how you feel you are going on mana during each encounter. Mastery is definitely our main stat once we have reached 2005haste (2032woe).

Fights where the raid is grouping up a lot is worth breaking out of spirit and going into mastery and where burst healing is required i.e Madness instant meteors and where you have breaks in healing to regain mana from burst healing. I think its preference based on whether or not druids go mastery builds.

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Old 01/17/12, 3:33 AM   #109
Jericha_Atom
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by LupeN View Post
Its viable to reforge our spirit to mastery to empower harmony, due weakness of bennefit we get from spirit? Anyone check this?
I'm reforged out of spirit on just about every piece of gear that I have, and I never have mana issues. I think I run at about 1900 spirit total, and it works just fine for me.

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Old 01/17/12, 8:46 AM   #110
Dav1l
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Night Elf Druid
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by faa View Post
Fights where the raid is grouping up a lot is worth breaking out of spirit and going into mastery and where burst healing is required i.e Madness instant meteors and where you have breaks in healing to regain mana from burst healing. I think its preference based on whether or not druids go mastery builds.
No, this is wrong on 2 levels.

1. Efflorescence doesn't require raid to be stacked. It only heals 3 people at a time. You will be getting almost full benefit, if raid is spread in groups of 4-5 people. This is true for whole Madness fight, where you basically have 5 groups of ~4-6 people standing on each other while Corruption is up, or whole raid being stacked in one spot, when Corruption is dead - it doesn't matter for your Efflo. You can also cover 3 people with it on green phase on Yorsahj, on Gunship p1, on Zon'ozz black phase, on Morchok. The only fight that doesn't favor Efflo is Hagara. The reason is NOT spreading, it's movement in ice phase and almost zero raid damage on normal phase.

Other thing worth noting regarding this. If anything, you should be happy when raid is heavily spread. That's where we shine, because holy paladins can't take advantage of their efficient HR, holy priests can't take advantage of their efficient HW:S, resto shamans can't take advantage of their efficient HR. You can though. You can still Efflo 1-2 people without huge loss, your Wild Growth still hits 6 players, your Rejuv is the cheapest and highest HPM among all spells other healers are forced to use in these situations.

2. You shouldn't make decision on whether going mastery or spirit reforge based on raid spreading. Decision should be made based on the encounter duration, intensiveness of raid damage, amount of downtime available and how often that happens.

We had t12, which heavily favored mastery reforge due to either short encounters (Beth, Rhyolith, Shannox) or encounters with a lot of downtime (Alysrazor, Majordomo, Ragnaros). This content is slightly different though. I will exclude Yorsahj from this analysis, because it is a little bit gimmicky in terms of anything mana related and makes both Genesis and mastery reforge way too powerful.

All of the first encounters are short, have a lot of downtime phases, or are relaxed on healing for some time and then have phases that require huge burst. I'd go with mastery for those. More interesting healing wise are Spine and Madness. You need to do steady high hps on Spine for a long time, and at least for me spirit reforge ended up being a lot better. I won't say anything about Madness yet, because I spent most time on it as a moonkin, only did around 10 or so pulls as resto and didn't have a chance to test mastery reforge. Spirit proved to be quite good as I managed to scrap nice hps even with almost no time to get the feel of the fight and thus failing a bit on cooldown and mana management.

Still need more resto druid logs from Spine and Madness. Most guilds bring 0, some bring 1, which makes sample size quite small. So far almost all druids have spirit reforge, some even use HoU.

@Jericha_Atom, if you don't have mana issues, then you are probably afking too much during an encounter. I end up being completely dry on every single one, while being much better geared than you and having spirit reforge. When you make statements like these, try to back them up with logs.

Torte - Human Priest

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Old 01/18/12, 4:06 AM   #111
Kivshani
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Vashj (EU)
When you say you wish to see more logs, do you mean Normal logs or just Heroic logs? Because I'm the main healer on my raiding team, so I have logs for those fights. But we don't do Heroics.

I find that high spirit can be very helpful if you change your healing priority to match it - I used to heavily favor Nourish because it was cheap and fast (with Nature's Bounty), and then 1,900 spirit was fine enough. But when switching to spamming WG and Healing Touch instead, I needed higher spirit, and my overall healing throughput still went up, even when losing Mastery and Crit.

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Old 01/18/12, 1:11 PM   #112
Sasazuka
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Frostwolf
1973 spirit (from armory) and generally reforged spirit to haste/mastery. For fights that need 3 heals we have a shaman otherwise it's just me and Holy paladin. Was 5/8 prior to getting 4pcT13 (01/04/2011) so I was using 4pcT12 with more or less the same reforging goals.

Log is here but I'm not sure what you need to see from the logs though. For 10-man it's certainly viable to reforge out of spirit for the first 6 bosses. Can't comment on the remaining two yet since we haven't put any solid tries into it yet. For our most recent H. Warmaster Blackhorn fight (yesterday), I was OoM for the last 5-10 seconds but that can be resolved with some better mana management so reforging for spirit is definitely not needed. I have no experience in 25-man except for LFR which doesn't really matter.

Comparing H.Hagara the Stormbinder (4pcT13 vs 4pcT12) - both fights had 2 Mana Tide Totem so there may be a notable difference there:

4pcT12 (7:24)
Revitalize 86012 mana
Innervate 58043 mana
Replenishment 53437 mana
Heartfire 41752 mana
Total: 239244 (22892 more than 4pcT13)

4pcT13 (7:30) (397 equipped)
Revitalize 97440 mana
Innervate 61777 mana
Replenishment 57135 mana
Total: 216352

Last edited by Sasazuka : 01/18/12 at 1:41 PM.

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Old 01/21/12, 3:52 AM   #113
goodolarchie
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
<tys>
Spirestone
It's worth noting that [Jaws of Defeat] is highly viable for Maw if you wanted to try swapping spirit for mastery. Also, for anyone working on Spine, I found that modding the lua for GridStatusShield was a godsend for knowing whether to rejuv or nourish searing targets. Of course boss mods will track this value, but having it directly on a center text indicator in Grid makes the healing considerably more palatable for this crazy fight.


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Old 01/21/12, 6:19 PM   #114
frdrk
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Tauren Druid
 
Stormscale (EU)
Since watching a video of a paladin solo healing Ultraxion 10hc (reference: Quantum - Ultraxion 10M HC Solo Heal - YouTube), we've decided to attempt a strategy with me, a resto druid solo healing.

Now I would like to raise a couple of questions here to hopefully spawn some intelligent discussion on the matter.
These are my current assumptions:
  • The red buff is our best throughput buff because of the interaction with Efflorescence and green buff.
  • My current gear (2t12+2t13) will allow me to keep the red buff without mana issues for the entire kill duration (Estimating ~4:30ish)
  • ToL will be best used early as a mana conservation tool and after the 4 minute mark as a throughput cooldown.
  • Tranquility used under the same principles as ToL
  • If mana allows, I will be using a Volcanic Potion after the 4 minute mark instead of a mana potion.
  • I will have my elemental shaman use Healing Rain on cooldown after the 4 minute mark.

Now the points I feel should be discussed are:
1. Will my cooldown strategy be workable in practice?
2. Have anyone else successfully done this? Or even tried and if so, what were your experiences with it?
3. What reforging strategy will be most succesful when attempting this? Currently I feel like the absolutely stacked conditions for Efflorescence (double dipping red buff, a permanently damaged raid on top of it.) should shift the weight towards mastery, but I'm doubting whether my mana can hold a spirit > mastery reforge or not.

Edit: On another note - does Nozdormu's Timeloop get applied on a specific timing like the crystals, or is it based on percent HP on Ultraxion?

Last edited by frdrk : 01/21/12 at 6:50 PM.

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Old 01/23/12, 5:43 AM   #115
 Tecton
Soda Popinski
 
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Troll Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
I think you'd need to have a pretty heavily optimised raid to be able to accomplish this at the current level of tuning, if it's even possible. I'd be surprised if it is, frankly.

Paladins not only do more HPS than druids (the top resto parse is just under 70k, the top paladin parse is over 86.8k), they also have external cooldowns they can make use of (Hand of Sacrifice on the tank, Aura Mastery for the raid) while taking lower damage personally (Divine Protection & Bubble vs Barkskin) on top of their own HPS increasing cooldowns (GoAK, Divine Favor & Wings) as opposed to us only having Tranq + Tree. Beacon is also a hugely useful tool here.

I'm sure someone is going to come along and prove me wrong, but I think it's probably just beyond our reach as a class for now, our HPS isn't enough to compensate for the cooldowns available to Paladins/Priests yet. The stacking debuff to bosses might bring this closer to reality, though.

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Old 01/23/12, 6:51 PM   #116
Thedave
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Moonrunner
Originally Posted by goodolarchie View Post
It's worth noting that [Jaws of Defeat] is highly viable for Maw if you wanted to try swapping spirit for mastery.
On H-Spine 10m, a lot of the Jaws proc is wasted, so if you're looking for a mana regen trinket, [Heart of Unliving] is better. Jaws is generally superior to the Unliving (not calling it "Heart" because I use "Heart" to refer to [Windward Heart]) because it only takes 16-17 casts over 20s for it to surpass Unliving in terms of mana regen, but I find my casts-in-20s number to be more in the 10-12 range on Spine: we simply aren't blanketing the raid with HoTs for the vast majority of the fight.

That said, Jaws gives you 110 Int more throughput, so it's a balancing act. I still use Jaws because I find that my mana has been fine so far, but if it became more iffy, I'd switch to the Unliving.

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Old 01/25/12, 2:08 AM   #117
Kjeldorian
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Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by frdrk View Post
Edit: On another note - does Nozdormu's Timeloop get applied on a specific timing like the crystals, or is it based on percent HP on Ultraxion?
Nozdormu's Timeloop is on a timer approximately 5 min marker. DBM will have a timer for it.

Good luck on your HC Ultraxion solo attempts. Highest I've reached is 63k hps in 10 HC with double dipping 4pc T12 (2 healing)

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Old 02/02/12, 12:07 AM   #118
MaikuMori
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Dragonmaw (EU)
Originally Posted by LupeN View Post
Its viable to reforge our spirit to mastery to empower harmony, due weakness of bennefit we get from spirit? Anyone check this?
I've been raiding with spirit reforged to mastery since FL and usually it's not a problem. You can save a lot mana by mapping out cooldowns correctly. Unlike a lot of druids I'm quite a big fan of 2T13, especially if the encounter allows you to time innervates well. Usually if I do run out of mana it's an indication I'm doing something wrong.

Here's a log of me solohealing Ultraxion 10N with really badly mapped out CDs (didn't expect to kill it that fast) and I run out of mana only at the very end: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Here's the mana regen from that fight:
NameAmount
Revitalize41382 mana
Replenishment30796 mana
Innervate29056 mana
Concentration12516 mana
If you use Potion of Concentration right after you click Heroic Will you get 5s of it inside the normal realm and then usually you can do w/o healing for another 3-5s. This time I used it too late and tank took a bit extra dmg so I had to cancel early.

As for HC I might attempt to soloheal heroic version, but I don't think we have enough raid dps at the moment in the guild and I still need to do few more solo normal kills to get used to it. Apart from the mentioned things I think using Furor talent might help as long as the fight is kept short.

If you're aiming for pure HPS, 2 healers with one of them healing just barely so you don't wipe is probably the best as it prolongs the fight which means there's a lot more dmg to heal.

Last edited by MaikuMori : 02/02/12 at 12:12 AM.

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Old 02/04/12, 2:47 PM   #119
Moonoak
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Eldre'Thalas
Just wondering if im doin the correct thing on Ultraxion with the Green Buff

Carpeting rejuvs, WG, SM every CD keeping LBx3 on active tank,

using nourish & HT as i can

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Old 02/04/12, 6:04 PM   #120
Kjeldorian
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Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
H Ultraxion

You'll probably want to use RG for your Clearcasts in lieu of Healing Touch unless you're saving the Nature's Grace for certain events.

Efflo placement will be important.

I would just try and maintain a 3 stack on one tank, tank switches happen often and 3 gcds to reapply the stack is costly.

Then all that remains is timing your healer cooldowns, such as popping ToL / Tranquility before 2 min into the fight to both save mana and to ensure they will be available before the 5 min marker.

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