[Feral-Bear] Theorycraft (Rawr.Bear)
This thread is for collaborating on Bear theorycraft. I'd like to have one central thread for intelligent discussion that advances the realm of theorycraft for bears. I'm striving to have Rawr.Bear as accurate and complete as possible for Cataclysm release, and have been doing significant research on the formulae involved. This thread is for sharing and peer-reviewing that theorycraft, and seeing what others are doing. While the focus is on Bear, some other specs' data that's closely related will creep in. Please do not post unless you have something useful to contribute.
Damage and Threat Formulae
I'll start with the damage and threat formulae that I've reverse engineered so far. This is all based on extensive testing, not just looking at tooltips (which are frequently wrong). This is up to date as of build 13195:
Base stats of a level 85 Druid are (Health/Mana are without health/mana from Sta/Int):
Stat conversions for a level 85 druid are:
Dodge Diminishing Returns
Dodge from Agility beyond base agility, and all dodge rating, is subject to diminishing returns. (TODO: Double-check that base agility's dodge still isn't diminished) The formula for DR for Bear Dodge is as follows:
Where is the avoidance % from DR-subject sources, after DR.
And is the avoidance % from DR-subject sources, before DR.
In both cases, x and x', use the % of dodge, not the fraction (ie, 30, not 0.30)
The post-DR value should then be added to the non-DR-subject dodge, to find your total dodge. As before, bosses negate 2.4% of your dodge (TODO: Double-check that 2.4%).
Feral Combat Perks
Choosing a Feral spec grants the following additional benefits:
Vengeance increases your AP by 5% of the damage you take. Here's how it works in more detail:
1. When you first take damage, you immediately gain Vengeance, equal to 5% of the damage taken. From then on, Vengeance 'ticks' every 2 seconds.
2. When it ticks, it checks how much damage you've taken since the last time it ticked, and does either step 3, or step 4:
3. If DamageTaken > 0, new Vengeance is set to: [OldVengeance*0.95 + DamageTaken*0.05]
4. If DamageTaken = 0, new Vengeance is set to: [OldVengeance - MaxVengeance*0.1] (Where MaxVengeance is the highest this stack of Vengeance has ever been)
Some analysis of this:
Savage Defense procs 50% of the time on crits, granting a shield of 35% of AP. With feral spec, that is increased to 46.2%, and mastery rating increases that further. This amount is very significant in dungeons.
Melee, Mangle, Maul (Init), Maul (Cleave), Lacerate (Initial), Thrash (Initial), and Swipe are able to proc Savage Defense.
Lacerate (Tick), Thrash (Tick), Feral Faerie Fire, and Fury Swipes are not able to proc Savage Defense.
Finally, a bit about our level 85 spell, Wild Mushroom. While not typically regarded as a feral ability, it does have some uses, and is a rather complex pair of spells.
Important Topics Still TODO
Bumping this just so that it's first page for responses. (Then I'll delete this post).
Stamina now gives 14 hp per for all classes at level 85. Why? My guess is bug, but I'm gonna make it a feature for the next Toskk's TTL patch since its persisted for well over a month after my bug report on the beta about it. Haven't extensively looked into it but I think you get a +0.8 hp per stam from every level between 81 and 85. As a result of this, and presumably beta tweaks, the base hp of classes is now off. I'm getting 41249 for tauren and 39273 for trolls (I'll double check but I believe all non tauren druids have the same base hp) if you subtract out base stam * 14. I think the OP did something a little different on value of base stam, but his formula is still using outdated beta info.
In the original post:
"...Mushrooms are immediately visible, targetable, and aggro hostile mobs. ..."
The tooltip states they become invisible after 6 seconds. But I also remember reading somewhere that they will be invisible to enemy mobs, only when detonated will they agro them. Which is why I started using them to cause some initial threat on mobs in normals and heroics. (build 4.0.3b)
I have just double checked if this still works in the latest hotfix (dec 13th) and it still does.
On a level 84 mob a single mushroom generates 791 threat with my current gear and stats. Using 3 shrooms generates 2414 threat. I will do some more testing tomorrow to see the threat generated on a naked/ unspecced bear.
As I understood although I haven't tested it that the six second invisibility is a pvp/arena/BG type behavoir related more to PCs than NPCs.
Further if professions are up for consideration, I saw Avalanche on the list. I was trying to look into the numbers and the behavoir of a Grounded Plasma Shield failure with triggers Plamsa Misfire and Painful Shock. Even the failure might be worth looking into. It is 40 yards. The shock does no damage, but will taunt all targets to attack you for 4 sec. The Plasma Misfire tooltip says it lasts 10 seconds. I assume the Painful shock triggers when a mob is within the 40 yards.
Finally was able to sorta use the new Rawr. Still cannot load my character but thats a separate discussion.
I hand selected all my gear from scratch and noticed Rawr sets expertise as a VERY high value. Higher than AGI actually. And equal too after dodge cap is hit. Does anyone know the reasoning for this? Parry haste no longer exists and threat is a non-issue. I reforged everything on my bear to dodge, and gemmed completely for stam and felt like a god tanking. And had no threat issues other than up to 2s into the pull.
Maybe the threat weight is too high in Rawr? And how is expertise 75% a mitigation stat? My best guess is that Rawr still has parry haste enabled.
I'm not positive but aren't most yellow attacks on a 2 roll system?
Expertise is probably still the best threat stat, and has the added bonus of helping against awkward double parry pulls.
If Expertise is higher valued that expected you have probalby enabled "Taget Parry Hastes" on Options tab.
Using my own stats and gear to work things out, this is to answer a fellow tank's question about whether it was better threat wise to build three stacks of Lacerate and then automatically Pulverise or whether it was better to let the stacks runs, use Lacerate or Mangle as filler, and apply Pulverise only to keep the buff up. Hopefully some others here might find this useful.
Using threat values from first post in this thread:
Lacerate: 1298 + 457 dps
Lacerate Threat: 8105 initial + 1371 per tick
Pulverise: 2543-3053 x 1.2 + 564 x 3 (2798 avg melee hit) (4490 dmg assuming 3 stacks)
Pulverise Threat: 13,470
6 second window:
Lacerate tick x 6 = 24,678 Threat
Lacerate tick x 6 with Lacerate applied every GCD = 57,098
Pulverise followed by Lacerate x 3:
2.5: Lacerate Tick
3.5: Lacerate Tick x 2
4.5: Lacerate + Lacerate Tick x 2
5.5 Lacerate Tick x 3
13,470 from Pulverise
10,968 from Lacerate Ticks
24,315 from Lacerate Applications
Lacerate on initial application and Mangle provide almost identical levels of threat so I've assumed 4 x Lacerate over the 6 seconds.
Leaving Lacerate run and spamming Lacerate/Mangle seems to provide 17% more threat than Pulverising every 3 stacks of Lacerate. Letting Lacerate run and spamming Lacerate even generates more dps, never mind if Mangle is being used as well. So quite clearly, using Lacerate/Mangle as filler and only refreshing Pulverise when the buff is close to dropping off is the better single target rotation. Assuming enough rage of course.
Edit: Of course, this completely ignores the issue of rage generation and is purely a simplistic analysis of threat per GCD/rage since both options cost the same amount of rage. It assumes that 10 rage per second is being generated on average during the fight to allow our basic single target abilities to be spammed every GCD.*
*Not strictly the case since most of the time we'll get a free Mangle proc during the 6 seconds of Lacerate ticks meaning we'll need (at a guess) only about 8-9 rage per second to sustain the spam Lacerate/Mangle rotation.
Just noticed that the OP hadn't been updated for the buff to Mangle Bear. It's so strong now that it's never a good idea to delay Mangle usage at all. Also, Rawr will currently compare different rotation priorities like that.
I know this is a difficult question to answer, but at what point does mastery become better than dodge? Any math wizards willing to tackle this question?
Rawr can tell you this. There is no 'point', as it depends on a wide multitude of factors (primarily how hard the target is hitting you.
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