[Feral] Cataclysm Simple Q & A - Page 2

Labrynth · 12/13/10, 8:42 PM

Originally Posted by charriu

I noticed that, as a cat, my energy regularly seems to drop by about 10 without me doing anything. Also, fury swipes seems to proc at those times, but I'm not terribly sure.

Is that just me being paranoid or is there something going on?

Does it correspond with Tiger's Fury running out (thanks to Primal Madness)?

Chip · 12/14/10, 3:37 PM

I've always had a hybrid feral spec. I spend about half my raid time DPSing and the other half tanking (unless we're low on healers, in which case I swap to my Resto spec).

Currently, my hybrid spec leans a little more to the DPS side:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

My thinking behind the DPS-leaning is that Tanking has to be good enough to survive (meaning if you're over-geared/talented, you can't survive...more), but any advantage in DPS is a practical improvement by reducing the fight duration.

I'm considering swapping to this, though, for more tank survivability, since healers are having mana issues lately:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I dropped Blood in the Water and Stampede, and I also dropped as much Fury Swipes as I could, in order to add Master Shapeshifter and Perseverance.

My thinking is that 4% Crit in cat form from MS makes up for some of the DPS loss in FS and BitW. And the Spell Damage reduction from Perseverance makes my bear form more survivable.

So, I guess my question is, knowing I can't have it all, are there any better trade-offs I've missed? Any general comments?

mushar · 12/14/10, 4:26 PM

Are there threat issues with feral cats in Cata? Is Cower the best way to manage threat?

I run with a druid in heroics and he has major threat issues, pulls off the tank and keeps aggro even spamming cower on CD. His spec is the standard cat DPS spec posted in the druid forum here, and his gear isn't above the tank's level, mostly 333 blues. He's also using the rotation found here as well. It's entirely possible (though I don't find it entirely probable) that every tank we ever run with is awful at threat generation, but we're looking for some explanation or recourse to manage his threat.

kalbear · 12/14/10, 5:59 PM

Threat for cats is pretty high. One large problem is that the damage for a cat tends to be fairly high at the onset, particularly with things like ravage, trinket procs, tiger's fury and bleeds hitting for big damage at the same time. Cower is really necessary to manage early on - that or laying off. It's not anything to do with the tanks' threat and everything to do with the damage profile a cat has.

Moopies · 12/14/10, 7:36 PM

In regards to bear tanking.
What sort of numbers are we looking for when talking about our caps? I have seen some ratings and numbers in the other threads, but I have to admit I am not a star when it comes to numbers.

Cap:
Hit - I'm assuming this is still 8%?
Expertise - 28?
Crit -
Dodge - At which point do we start noticing diminishing returns? (How does this affect the amount of dodge should aim at getting and when does it become less worth while to go for dodge?)

RareBeast · 12/15/10, 2:32 AM

I find the worst time for threat is about 30 secs into the fight. It takes a while for us to build up our damage/threat so initially the tank builds up a lead. Then we start catching up rapidly, often requiring some cower usage. After that "crisis" period the tanks vengeance starts to ramp up an I no longer need to worry too much about threat.

This difficulty period is compounded by the fact that 30 secs into the fight is when the bonus threat of Misdirects and Tricks of the Trade start wearing off (and currently omens audible warnings don't seem to take this into account well).

Rannasha · 12/15/10, 6:03 AM

Originally Posted by Moopies

In regards to bear tanking.
What sort of numbers are we looking for when talking about our caps? I have seen some ratings and numbers in the other threads, but I have to admit I am not a star when it comes to numbers.

Cap:
Hit - I'm assuming this is still 8%?
Expertise - 28?
Crit -
Dodge - At which point do we start noticing diminishing returns? (How does this affect the amount of dodge should aim at getting and when does it become less worth while to go for dodge?)

Hit, yes, 8%.
Expertise has the softcap (dodge chance of the boss reduced to 0%) at 26 expertise, just like in WotLK. The parry cap is higher, I can't look it up right now, but if you mouseover the expertise stat in your character screen is shows the chance to get parried. 1 expertise reduces the chance by 0.25%, so you can do the math.

There is no crit cap that will be reached anytime soon.

Diminishing returns affect dodge from the start, the strength of the DR increases gradually, there is no magical point where the DR suddenly becomes more harsh. This is the same as it was in WotLK.

Qutossar · 12/16/10, 5:52 AM

Very basic, but I find only outdated posts from TBC about this:

Is there a two-roll system for special melee attacks in bear?
Means: Does it make any sense at all to go for hit/expertise to increase crit rate and thus increase proc rate of savage defense ?

Edit:
Was answered in another thread. Yellow attacks have a two-roll system and as such hit/expertise help with savage defense, but not enough to make them better than the other stats.

weswtp · 12/16/10, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by Destru

"stat priority for Kitty dps? "

Relative Stat Values at 85 (25M raid):

DPS: 3.88

Agi: 2.57

Str: 2.00

AP: .96

Mastery: .91

Haste: .82

Crit: .75

Exp: .71

Hit: .71

(via fluiddruid)

metagem WTF?

So, just to clarify, we DON'T prioritize hit and expertise anymore? Is there atleast a MINIMUM amount we need for those if we are to reforge everything to Mastery at this point? I've tried the full on Mastery push, and it's just rather frustrating to miss so much.

Robosaurus · 12/16/10, 9:05 PM

We didn't prioritise Hit/Expertise in WoTLK (the last 2 years), unless crit soft-capped for Feral Combat (Cat).

Hit/expertise are weak stats since we get energy refunds on miss/dodge, dots cannot miss once applied, auto attack is a low percentage of our damage, not GCD capped etc. This has been stated numerous times.

Mastery may need to be reevaluated with the nerf to "rake double-dipping", but appears to still be the top secondary stat.

Jone · 12/17/10, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by weswtp

So, just to clarify, we DON'T prioritize hit and expertise anymore? Is there atleast a MINIMUM amount we need for those if we are to reforge everything to Mastery at this point? I've tried the full on Mastery push, and it's just rather frustrating to miss so much.

The value of hit to DPS went down in Cata, since you can refresh your dots early without losing DPS, and it wasn't too high before. That said, it's the perception of most humans that the rotation is much more annoying and difficult with larger miss chances -- I personally can't bear more than 5% miss+dodge before I'm ready to bite through the mouse cord. Another relevant issue is the rDPS lost when your attacks don't hit -- for example, are you the mangle-bot for your rogues and warriors? Will the raid be relying on you to sunder the boss or put up infected wounds? The computers say that freed of these responsibilities and blessed with perfect judgment, you'll pick up DPS by preferentially reforging away all your hit and exp, but there's still a good argument for their value in a raid context.

MisterMerf · 12/17/10, 6:39 PM

My trawling isn't turning up any mention of this already in the forum and I'd like to post the question for public consumption even though I could put it to bed by testing with a priest friend...

I can no longer cite sources, but I thought there had been official discussion in the last month or two on the topic of Vengeance and absorb/shield effects. Where did we end up?

Does absorbed damage contribute to the Vengeance stack at the same rate as damage taken?
Does absorbed damage contribute at all?
Is the behavior the same for all common types of absorption? (SD, PW:S, Divine Aegis, Illuminated Healing)

Miirkat · 12/19/10, 1:48 AM

Anyone know the new conversion of Agility to crit rating (before talents and buffs and such), and other combat rating conversions?

Would love to see another "Feral Druid numbers" thread updated for Cataclysm.

MisterMerf · 12/19/10, 3:44 AM

Originally Posted by Miirkat

Anyone know the new conversion of Agility to crit rating (before talents and buffs and such), and other combat rating conversions?

Would love to see another "Feral Druid numbers" thread updated for Cataclysm.

[Feral-Bear] Theorycraft (Rawr.Bear)

The "Stat Conversions" and "Stat Functions" should be what you're looking for.

Loude · 12/21/10, 6:47 PM

For cat dps, what glyph would you prefer? TF or SR?

hit/expertise rating becomes a large factor. low hit rating means much less melee damage, hence SR becomes less valuable.
If you're glyphed in TF, rake & TF will not be synced anymore. If you haven't however they will and a few misses can make them unsynced again.
So basically SR glyph becomes better when you're hit capped, while the TF glyph becomes less attractive.

So whats the best option when you're hit/exp capped and whats the best option for when you've reforged hit/exp to mastery?