[Balance] WrathCalcs - Page 33

♦ Tecton · 09/18/12, 5:26 AM

I think our SimC profile is still in need of a bit of love so that we're not comparing apples to oranges. Looking at the gear, I don't think that's changed since I tweaked it a month ago, and our stat values look a bit different since then. Is Starfox still working away on it? Haven't seen him post in a while.

[edit] That said, I think there's still a lot of room for improvement in the profile in Wrathcalcs, I just quickly put something together in the right ballpark. Using balance chest & resto shoulders, etc. [/edit]

Eluial · 09/18/12, 5:24 PM

Makes sense. If you like (and if you haven't done so already) I can put together a close-enough-to-BiS chardev profile when I get home, to use both in SimC and WC.

Also, do you think the resto shoulders win as offset piece over the Gauntlets of Undesired Gfits? The socket bonus on the shoulders is better (int instead of crit) but with the hands, you're trading haste for crit, and more of it than the mastery -> crit on the shoulders.

♦ Tecton · 09/18/12, 6:07 PM

No idea, I've not spent a lot of time comparing the various permutations.

Cdin · 09/19/12, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Eluial

edit: rereading above a little bit, I know this is what Hamlet and Graylo were discussing. I guess what I'm trying to point out is, while I expect WC and SimC to give slightly different numbers, they are very different. And I'd expect a talent like NV to change based on fight time, but DoC should remain fairly constant. Yet we're seeing a 7k DPS difference between the two tools.

WC and SimC are very different tools, so I wouldn't get too hung up on DPS differences between the tools. They don't use the same structure, assumptions, or even the same rotations.

When using tools like WC and SimC the final number isn't what's most important. The important questions are "how does the final number change if I pick Talent A over Talent B?" or "what happens to the DPS if I use gear item X instead of gear item Y?"

• Hamlet · 09/19/12, 11:25 AM

Yeah, that's exactly right. Although if you do take the trouble to compare at identical gear/setup (which I don't think anyone has), it's at least interesting to try to account for the differences.

Eluial · 09/19/12, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cdin

WC and SimC are very different tools, so I wouldn't get too hung up on DPS differences between the tools. They don't use the same structure, assumptions, or even the same rotations.

When using tools like WC and SimC the final number isn't what's most important. The important questions are "how does the final number change if I pick Talent A over Talent B?" or "what happens to the DPS if I use gear item X instead of gear item Y?"

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. My main concern wasn't necessarily that the numbers were different, but they were giving different relative results as well. But that was very likely due to using different gear sets.

So here's what I've done.

I made a chardev profile that I'm calling "close enough to BiS" because I haven't done extensive analysis on whether or not all the items are really BiS. But I did attempt to go for the 8089 break point, which caused me to make a couple weird gear choices, and I had to use reckless gems, and use the haste enchant on gloves and boots, but I'm not convinced this is the best decision.

I copied that profile into the latest version of WC (the last one that was posted in this thread), but I guess I can't upload to these forums (either that or I'm being incredibly blind and/or stupid and missing the add file button). But with all the default settings, what I'm getting is:
NV 100829 DPS
DoC 103776 DPS

In SimC, I loaded the Druid_Balance_T14H.simc file, then replaced the gear with my chardev profile. I didn't change anything about the spell priorities, because quite frankly, I just don't know enough about SimC to feel confident in doing that. If anyone has made/will make a new priority list, and wants to share that would be awesome.
NV 99526 DPS
DoC 99831 DPS

Even when I varied the fight length to stop just before or after another CD usage opportunity, DoC was coming out slightly ahead every time. Angry face!

I used night elf as a neutral race, no professions. The only thing with the chardev profile is that they don't have the sha-touched gems in yet, so you have to enter that manually for the weapon and in the total int section for SimC.

Also, one minor thing I noticed, enchant gloves - greater haste is showing up as 170 haste on wowhead and chardev, but WC has it as 175 haste.

edit: Here's the SimC gear section I used

← Click Here

fountaiin · 09/19/12, 11:19 PM

Does Wrathcalcs take into account how a trinket such as

Jade Magistrate Figurine - 1288 Int & 15 Second 2800 CRIT on use 60 second cooldown

interacts with Nature's Vigil.

I was wondering whether a trinket like that could pull NV ahead of DoC, since WC puts

Light of the Cosmos - 1218 Haste, Periodic spells have a chance to grant 2500 INT for 20 seconds.

3900 dps ahead of Jade, as our BIS trinket, but Jade works reasonably well with CA/Incarn/NV.

♦ Tecton · 09/20/12, 4:03 AM

All trinket effects are averaged out over the course of the fight. LotC will likely come down in value by ~1k DPS (very rough guesstimate) once we have time to add "expected time to proc" onto the 45 second ICD.

• Hamlet · 09/20/12, 10:20 AM

TreeCalcs used to get a little fancy with trinket timings since some things were really important (timing them with Innervate). Probably a low priority here though since it's pretty messy and might not be that huge a difference (20% more from the proc 1/3 of the time when synced with NV). Also since you'll probably use the trinket in Eclipse, you might hold it up slightly which messes with the 3min timing.

3900 DPS gap in trinkets sounds like you might be hitting a haste breakpoint also.

• Hamlet · 09/21/12, 1:46 AM

Little DPS buff, and narrowing that weird disparity between Solar and Lunar:
Patch 5.0.5 Hotfixes - World of Warcraft

âve · 09/21/12, 3:13 AM

Eluial, have you tried out staff from lei'shi for more haste/crit?
maybe the difference between the weapons insn't that big if you achive a breakpoint.

we can enchant expertise on gloves. don't know if that was discussed before.

• Hamlet · 09/23/12, 11:49 PM

Notes for whenever. Some enchants displaying wrong value (using correct value for stats though). Herbalism's not in there. will have to figure something out.

Small nuke hotfix buffs aren't in.

♦ Tecton · 09/24/12, 3:37 AM

Yeah, I removed the flat herbalism haste value since it was throwing people out, made a note a few updates ago about that. Probably need to add that to the Haste module.

I'll do another sweep over enchants once you've added that and the nukes hotfix. Need to delete the values out of Windsong too on Charsheetdata too, it's double counting because of the misc. buffs table.

[edit] As pointed out in the main Balance thread, I'll add in the other meta and expertise gems too. I'd forgotten that expertise gives spell hit now. I'm not going to add extra columns, though, it'll just be represented as being straight hit. These look like they'll be able to give a slight DPS gain.[/edit]

• Hamlet · 09/24/12, 11:16 AM

You can do it now if you want--I don't know the new nuke values anyway so will worry about it after. I figure you may as well do it today since you'll be busy playing soon :P .

♦ Tecton · 09/24/12, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

You can do it now if you want--I don't know the new nuke values anyway so will worry about it after. I figure you may as well do it today since you'll be busy playing soon :P .

In the process of juggling kids & work to make up for tonight's festivities, so won't be able to get to it anyway. Ah well!