[Balance] WrathCalcs - Page 42

• Hamlet · 11/15/12, 8:33 PM

Yes, there is a special system for hit, and I have a rough idea how it works, but the details are trickier. I think it might be responsible for a lot of the anomalous equipping/unequipping behavior. That's why I suggested trying all this in Resto spec first.

As a preliminary matter, can you see which of the above things still happens if you're in Resto?

Slippykins · 11/15/12, 9:40 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Yes, there is a special system for hit, and I have a rough idea how it works, but the details are trickier. I think it might be responsible for a lot of the anomalous equipping/unequipping behavior. That's why I suggested trying all this in Resto spec first.

As a preliminary matter, can you see which of the above things still happens if you're in Resto?

In resto spec...

1. Taking off a piece of gear without a particular stat reduces that stat now, going between 1-5 points of the stat.

2. There's still a discrepancy between the amount of stat on the item and how much is lost when unequipping.

4. Displayed stats still change when you un/re-equip an item, and it affects all gear.

5. Still holds true.

The only one I'm skeptical about, like you said, was 3. Hit not changing. I don't have a full resto set, so I had ~1k extra hit that put me at 19% hit.

Gems and enchants still aren't affected, nor reduced.

Edit: Also, the stats on all pieces are completely different to what I had as a chicken. Gained around ~200 haste and ~300 crit. What's odd is that when I respec inside the dungeon (I walked in as resto), I can keep the extra stats until I un/re-equip an item, then it goes back to the stats I had when I walked in as a chicken.

Edit 2: Here's the same spreadsheet, but with resto numbers:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B3h...UJtYlMydXYwaW8

Duba · 11/18/12, 4:06 AM

Fear-Blackened Leggings are missing.

Stommped · 11/21/12, 11:00 AM

Should we be equating spirit to haste, or spirit to Crit? Crit has surpassed .5x int for me so that means Crafty gems would be better than Potent in red sockets if spirit/hit = crit

Slippykins · 11/21/12, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Stommped

Should we be equating spirit to haste, or spirit to Crit? Crit has surpassed .5x int for me so that means Crafty gems would be better than Potent in red sockets if spirit/hit = crit

You should be equating both spirit and haste to crit, because both spirit and haste need to reach a breakpoint. After each breakpoint, however, crit trumps both stats by a huge amount.

Stommped · 11/22/12, 2:55 AM

Originally Posted by Slippykins

You should be equating both spirit and haste to crit, because both spirit and haste need to reach a breakpoint. After each breakpoint, however, crit trumps both stats by a huge amount.

You misunderstood. An extra point of spirit will equate to a secondary stat somewhere else we can reforge. It's tough to tell all the time at the moment whether that will equate to haste or crit. If you gain a piece with a red socket, and you know you have a piece somewhere else that could be reforged differently to net you +160crit instead of +160spirit with the current reforge, then a Crafty gem would be superior in the red socket than the Potent gem, which everyone is currently using. In this situation the Spirit (Expertise) from the Crafty equals crit and you gain 160 crit at the cost of 80 int, which is beneficial.

In real situations it will be much more complicated as you will likely have to change reforges for 2-3 items in order to remain as close to hit cap as possible, which means it will affect both haste and crit.

Edit: Although I apparently just reached the point where both haste and crit are valued are more than half int. In which case it doesn't matter and Crafty will always be better since it will equate to either haste or crit. Although Haste appears to be a lot more jumpy and quickly go down far below half of int (this happened to me around 6k haste). It's pretty crazy how one piece of gear can make you have to change around your entire reforge/gems.

Sunfyre · 11/23/12, 10:22 AM

Sorry if this has been asked, but it doesn't look like the raid buffs/debuffs calculates Stormlash. Not sure if it can be modeled very well, but incarnation/nature's vigil would benefit more from stormlash than HotW/SotF.

Lilija · 11/24/12, 12:27 PM

I am wondering about one thing. WC shows HotW as top dps talent in last tier while going thru WoL shows that top moonkin logs have NV.

Sunfyre · 11/25/12, 10:36 PM

Per Hamlet's request, here's the details of Stormlash from Ghostcrawler:

-- The base damage is 20% of AP or 30% of SP, whichever is higher.
-- That amount is multiplied by 0.2 for normal pets, and by 0 for guardian pets.
-- Next, if it’s an autoattack (or spell that we count as an autoattack such as Wind Lash or Shadow Blades or Tiger Strikes), then it’s multiplied by 0.4, and then by WeaponSpeed / 2.6. And if it’s an offhand attack, it’s then multiplied by 0.5.
-- If it’s periodic damage, it doesn’t Stormlash, unless it’s Mind Flay, Malefic Grasp, or Drain Soul.
-- For all other spells, it’s then multiplied by BaseCastTime / 1.5 sec, with a floor on the BaseCastTime of 1.5 sec.
-- And then there are multipliers for certain spells: 2x for Lightning Bolt, 2x for Lava Burst, 2x for Drain Soul, 0.5x for Sinister Strike.
-- Finally, that’s the average damage it deals. It will actually deal that +/- 15 %.
-- It also has a 0.1 sec ICD on triggering, and can miss based on spell hit.

Also, the beta forums mentioned "Stormlash will favor class abilities and passives that increase all damage, or that increase nature damage", and I've personally noticed much higher valued procs when I use under Inc/NV.

Skull Banner:

Throw down a war banner at your feet that increases the critical damage of party or raid members within 30 yards of the banner by 20%. Lasts 10 sec.

• Hamlet · 11/25/12, 10:43 PM

And it affects all attacks? Yeah, that's pretty easy then. Will probably just have it add 0.3*SP/1.5 DPS (+talent bonuses) rather than breaking it down into spell-by-spell procs. That should work if the cast time normalization works at advertised.

Sunfyre · 11/26/12, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

And it affects all attacks? Yeah, that's pretty easy then. Will probably just have it add 0.3*SP/1.5 DPS (+talent bonuses) rather than breaking it down into spell-by-spell procs. That should work if the cast time normalization works at advertised.

Yeah, not sure if it was mentioned above but stormlash can crit too.

You'll also need an option for "How many shaman in raid?", since there's no debuff like there is for bloodlust, it can be dropped repeatedly, same for skull banner. In our fight with 3-4 shaman, I think I end up seeing Stormlash over a million damage on a Heroic Spiritbinder kill.

Erdluf · 11/26/12, 6:51 AM

Does Stormlash benefit from Solar Eclipse? We probably have a couple of spells with cast-time that don't benefit (Incarnation, perhaps Starfall and DoC HT). HotW seems to fall behind a bit more during Stormlash (very poor auto-attack coefficient).

Stommped · 11/26/12, 7:47 PM

Stormlash does benefit from Solar Eclipse.

nephyron · 11/27/12, 7:49 AM

In my current gear set i have Stonebound Cinch normal, swapping it for carrot Holder Belt (600 less crit, but a bit more intellect) results in a dps increase.
Even swapping a 320 crit in the extra socket of the Stonebound Cinch for a 160 int yeld more dps.
Is Wrathcalc correct? i thought 320 crit was > 160 int.

Slippykins · 11/27/12, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by nephyron

In my current gear set i have Stonebound Cinch normal, swapping it for carrot Holder Belt (600 less crit, but a bit more intellect) results in a dps increase.
Even swapping a 320 crit in the extra socket of the Stonebound Cinch for a 160 int yeld more dps.
Is Wrathcalc correct? i thought 320 crit was > 160 int.

At low gear levels (ie. below ilvl 495 or so), int surpasses crit for the moment. WrathCalcs is still correct.