[Balance] WrathCalcs - Page 43

nephyron · 11/27/12, 9:39 AM

Ok so 458 int > 912 crit it's a 1:2+ ratio <.<
(yet you have gemmed the belt like me instead of putting int in the extra slot)

Another strange behaviour by WC:
Try to import my character in WC, then swap the alchemy trinket with LoC and reforge the extra haste to crit you will notice that after reforging the haste on the trinket into crit any haste over the breakpoint that you convert to crit will lower the dps, yet I'm pretty sure that I would benefit more from crit if I can't reach the new breakpoint because refreshing the dots when they expire and while you are inside an eclipse with the amount of crit we have at 490ilvl without 4t14 will allow you to extend the dot to the next eclipse and only if gods of RNG allows it, you will have some spare seconds on the dot when entering the new eclipse.

What's the point in WC suggesting haste is better in that case if the extra haste shortens the dot duration until you reach a breakpoint?
It would just make the dot fall off while you have not reached a new eclipse yet (and the difference in cast time is abysmal to justify something like "you reach the next eclipse faster")

I think WC does not take into account that more haste between breakpoints = shortened dot duration
Shortened dot duration = the dot is more likely to fall off while you haven't reached a new eclipse yet
More haste = you have less crit, helps the dot to fall off sooner because you extend it less often
The amount of haste you gain does not increase the cast speed enough to make up for the dot extensions you traded for that tiny bit of haste.

The value of haste after a breakpoint should be lowered a little more IMHO

• Hamlet · 11/27/12, 10:11 AM

Shortening DoTs in and of itself is not a DPS loss if the damage per cast is staying the same. There's probably not much of any meaningful reduction (if any at all) in the chance for extensions, since all the other spells you're casting underneath the DoT are faster as well. All else being equal, speeding up a DoT is a slight improvement since you're giving it better chance to tick out fully in various situations.

The value of haste is simply in speeding up all your nukes and reducing the time of your whole rotation.

♦ Tecton · 11/27/12, 4:39 PM

Just to answer everyone, yes, I'm adding the upgrade stuff. The Armory hasn't been updated to display the upgrades yet (and looking at the US site at the moment, may well be behaving oddly in general). If that takes too long I'll put up a version without it.

It's a fairly big task, so be patient!

Slippykins · 11/27/12, 6:22 PM

Originally Posted by nephyron

Ok so 458 int > 912 crit it's a 1:2+ ratio <.<
(yet you have gemmed the belt like me instead of putting int in the extra slot)

Another strange behaviour by WC:
Try to import my character in WC, then swap the alchemy trinket with LoC and reforge the extra haste to crit you will notice that after reforging the haste on the trinket into crit any haste over the breakpoint that you convert to crit will lower the dps, yet I'm pretty sure that I would benefit more from crit if I can't reach the new breakpoint because refreshing the dots when they expire and while you are inside an eclipse with the amount of crit we have at 490ilvl without 4t14 will allow you to extend the dot to the next eclipse and only if gods of RNG allows it, you will have some spare seconds on the dot when entering the new eclipse.

What's the point in WC suggesting haste is better in that case if the extra haste shortens the dot duration until you reach a breakpoint?
It would just make the dot fall off while you have not reached a new eclipse yet (and the difference in cast time is abysmal to justify something like "you reach the next eclipse faster")

I think WC does not take into account that more haste between breakpoints = shortened dot duration
Shortened dot duration = the dot is more likely to fall off while you haven't reached a new eclipse yet
More haste = you have less crit, helps the dot to fall off sooner because you extend it less often
The amount of haste you gain does not increase the cast speed enough to make up for the dot extensions you traded for that tiny bit of haste.

The value of haste after a breakpoint should be lowered a little more IMHO

I've been using secondary stat gems purely for hitting the haste breakpoint in challenge modes. I know my gemming is subpar for raid, but at the time I gemmed I wasn't concerned about that.

Samso · 11/28/12, 8:39 AM

heya since yesterday wc doesnt import bnet data correctly.
on my char im hit capped and it shows rigt in the armory but if i load it into wc it loses some points.
i thinks its caused by the itemupgrader because this is the only thing i canged

♦ Tecton · 11/28/12, 7:09 PM

Originally Posted by Samso

heya since yesterday wc doesnt import bnet data correctly.
on my char im hit capped and it shows rigt in the armory but if i load it into wc it loses some points.
i thinks its caused by the itemupgrader because this is the only thing i canged

As I literally said two posts before yours, I'm working on the item upgrades at the moment (item databases only had the upgrade details as of yesterday). If you want to use the previous version for now, just go and edit your item's stats on the Gear List page.

Slippykins · 11/29/12, 6:26 PM

Just a quick question: I was under the impression, since intellect doesn't give crit or mana anymore, that 1 int = 1 SP in terms of DPS gain. Looking at marginal changes in WrathCalcs, it's telling me 1 int is worth 4.42 DPS, whereas 1 SP is worth 3.48 DPS. Help?

• Hamlet · 11/29/12, 6:30 PM

Int scales with talents and leather spec (and Mark), and also does give a little crit.

Slippykins · 11/29/12, 7:04 PM

Awesome, makes sense, thanks Hamlet.

nephyron · 12/03/12, 8:25 PM

The databases may be wrong:

• Hamlet · 12/03/12, 8:36 PM

They'll probably all be off by rounding errors for a little while, dealing with a bunch of different versions of each item is a huge pain and for now all they can do is estimate each one based on the %increase the stats should be getting based on ilvl.

e: also just in case anyone cares you swapped the wowhead and MMOC labels.

♦ Tecton · 12/05/12, 7:16 AM

Just as an update, I'm waiting for Wowhead to update their XML to include upgrade information. Perculia says it should be coming at some point this week (I believe) on their forums, so I'm waiting for that as I'm buggered if I'm updating ~1000 upgraded item values by hand!

For now, if you want to get your items showing the correct stats do the following:

Go to the Gear List tab.
Find your item.
Amend the stats to the upgraded values from live. Procs are a little more complex to update, as they're handled differently depending on which stat is changed so don't mess with those unless you know what you're doing.

Lilija · 12/05/12, 7:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tecton

Go to the Gear List tab.
Find your item.
Amend the stats to the upgraded values from live. Procs are a little more complex to update, as they're handled differently depending on which stat is changed so don't mess with those unless you know what you're doing.

While trying to figure out how to correct the procs I have noticed that the field for several trinkets' haste procs is empty. Is that on purpose?

♦ Tecton · 12/05/12, 7:53 AM

Originally Posted by Lilija

While trying to figure out how to correct the procs I have noticed that the field for several trinkets' haste procs is empty. Is that on purpose?

Haste procs are handled in the Haste sheet along with other temporary Haste effects, since just averaging them out makes things like breakpoints problematic.

• Hamlet · 12/05/12, 9:31 AM

Might be able to put in something for now where we multiply by a % to estimate upgrades (This would also avoid tripling the size of the gear list). By the way, does this mean you haven't made any changes yet to the last version?

e: we can try multiplying by 1.0379 for each 4 ilvl upgrade.

e2: to be clear, that's basically all the database sites are doing now anyway. So there isn't as much point pulling down all their info.