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12/07/12, 6:34 PM
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#661
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Druid
Echo Isles
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Just in case anyone ever wants to consider Rake situations, the applicable formulas seem to be
Rake DD and ticks: 99 + 30%*AP. Both ignore armor. Rake Tooltips seem accurate now (for much of 5.0 they were optimistic)
AP (at least for NE) is 260 + Str + AP from gear + 2*Agi when in cat form
Agi in cat form is Agi in caster + (Int*1.05 (or if no MotW, that .05 goes away, in other words this is a MotW double-dip))
Agi in cat form + HotW is 2.1 cat-non-HotW Agi (MotW has no influience here)
Auto attack in cat form (before armor) is 2*(Weapon DPS + AP/14). That number is reduced by Armor.
I believe that the Swipe/Mangel are 250% of the auto attack (plus a small constant), but I'm not sure that number is exactly correct. Tooltips say 400%. I suspect that is 100%+400%, but without the x2 multiplier that cats get on their auto attack. Both are affected by armor.
It probably isn't ever going to be mainstream, but even without HotW, Spending four seconds on cat->rake->moonkin may be better DPET than you'd get from MF spam (LS*3 DD) in Eclipse.
Last edited by Erdluf : 12/07/12 at 7:03 PM.
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12/08/12, 4:55 AM
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#662
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Von Kaiser
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On the left the real live values, on the right the values of wowdb (it seems to be better than WowHead) and Wowhead
Eternal Blossom Leggings:
upgrade 2/2 ilvl 504
stamina: 1977-1977-1976
intellect: 1232-1230-1231
mastery: 836-835-834
haste: 836-835-834
Kri'tak, IMperial Scepter of the Swarm
upgrade 1/2 ilvl 500
stamina: 817-816-816
intellect: 544-544-543
spirit: 374-373-373
crit: 345-345-344
spellpower: 7274-7271-7272
Kri'tak, IMperial Scepter of the Swarm
upgrade 2/2 ilvl 504
stamina: 847-847-847
intellect: 565-565-864
spirit: 388-388-387
crit: 358-358-357
spellpower: 7548-7548-7548
Relic of Yu'Lon
upgrade 2/2 ilvl 484
intellect: 1030-1030-1029
spellpower: 3262-3262-3260
Edit:
I'm playing with the item upgrade:
I have 489 neck, cloak, bracers, offhand, rings
all of them for +4ilvl get
stamina +36
int +25
spirit/hit +15
haste/crit/mastery +17
Whatever the modifier is, it's the same for those slots
Last edited by nephyron : 12/08/12 at 6:44 AM.
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12/18/12, 4:15 AM
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#663
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Soda Popinski
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The item API is being updated tomorrow, and it looks like a lot more information will be being provided including upgrade data. This should help fix some of the accuracy problems, I'll look at it more closely once it goes live.
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12/18/12, 7:44 AM
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#664
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<Druid Trainer>
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That reminds me, was going to see at some point if 1.13^(4/13)=1.03832 is a more accurate constant for upgrades.
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12/18/12, 4:52 PM
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#665
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<Druid Trainer>
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Originally Posted by Slippykins
In resto spec...
1. Taking off a piece of gear without a particular stat reduces that stat now, going between 1-5 points of the stat.
2. There's still a discrepancy between the amount of stat on the item and how much is lost when unequipping.
4. Displayed stats still change when you un/re-equip an item, and it affects all gear.
5. Still holds true.
The only one I'm skeptical about, like you said, was 3. Hit not changing. I don't have a full resto set, so I had ~1k extra hit that put me at 19% hit.
Gems and enchants still aren't affected, nor reduced.
Edit: Also, the stats on all pieces are completely different to what I had as a chicken. Gained around ~200 haste and ~300 crit. What's odd is that when I respec inside the dungeon (I walked in as resto), I can keep the extra stats until I un/re-equip an item, then it goes back to the stats I had when I walked in as a chicken.
Edit 2: Here's the same spreadsheet, but with resto numbers:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B3h...UJtYlMydXYwaW8
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I retested challenge mode scaling for a bit a week or two ago. The bugs with taking gear on/off seem to be fixed in cases where the hit cap wasn't involved. i.e. in Resto spec, items have consistent stats now, which are simply scaled down from their real stats in the proportion you'd expect based on ilvl (there's no special accounting for sockets). For example, for a 476 item, just divide everything by 1.13.
Hit cap specs like Balance have two problems:
1) Some of the bugs are still there, with things changing as I rezoned etc.
2) The hit cap fix is not done on a per-item basis. You would think that, for example, if an item had 113 hit and 113 haste (so that it was 100/100 in challenge mode in Resto), it would be 113 hit and 87 haste in Balance. But this is not the case--the same item might be 110/90, or 115/85, depending on what other gear you have on and how much hit it has. Basically the system first applies the normal scaling, then measures the hit cap discrepancy it caused, then somehow reallocates stats across your gear as a whole to fix that discrepancy, but not necessarily by putting each item back to the same amount of hit it started with. Why it's like this I don't know, since doing it item-by-item seems like it should have been simpler.
So for that reason, I think that a sort of "challenge mode checkbox" for wowhead/spreadsheets might be a bust.
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12/18/12, 5:47 PM
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#666
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Druid
Echo Isles
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Two thoughts on why stat reallocation in challenge modes might be goofy (and perhaps some clue as to their algorithm):
1) There may be some item that has only spirit (or hit), but no other secondary stat. [Qin-xi's Polarizing Seal]
2) They might be trying to keep the same ratios of your other stats (if your crit is 2x your mastery, they might try to stay close to that after hit reallocation). That could make sense if your old allocation maxed some (1+x)*(1+y) formula, but we aren't at such a point. It would have the benefit of preventing you from losing an excessive amount of whatever your favorite stat happened to be.
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12/18/12, 8:29 PM
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#667
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Soda Popinski
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Originally Posted by Hamlet
That reminds me, was going to see at some point if 1.13^(4/13)=1.03832 is a more accurate constant for upgrades.
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I'll give it a bash when I'm making the updates for the new API stuff, but you should be able to edit the multiplier on the Basic Calcs tab if you want to do some testing.
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12/18/12, 8:38 PM
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#668
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<Druid Trainer>
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Yeah, and if you check what I was going over on twitter today, I looked at spellpower progression more closely and it's not exactly 13% for 13 ilvls, closer to 12.88%. Basically stats grow exponentially with ilvl, with a constant of about 1.009363. That would make 4 ilvls worth that^4 = 1.03798, which is close to what we had before. I'm not sure we can get much closer than that with just computation.
Oh, although I do think you probably shouldn't round between upgrades.
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12/19/12, 9:56 AM
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#669
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Soda Popinski
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Yeah, I'd removed the double rounding in the version I was working on anyway. I'd put it in since it seemed to tie up with the Wowhead figures, before you let me know they were just calculating it too! Removed those now, although the calculation method is still coming up with differences from live stats (annoyingly).
So, for this version we have:
- Armory import of upgrade levels implemented.
- First draft of upgraded trinket procs (PvE epics and heroic blues for now). Let me know if any values are different from Wowhead, can update these manually, or if I've missed a trinket you've upgraded.
- Import/Export/Save/Load Profile stuff updated to include upgrades.
- 5.1 gear added.
- LotC normal intellect proc value corrected.
- Updated upgrade multiplier to 1.009363^(4/13).
- Slippykin's BiS list updated for front page.
Stuff to look at:
- Do we need to start at the lowest level of an item and multiply up from there to get accurate upgrade stats? For example, rather than multiplying up from the Heroic legs for an upgrade multiply all the way up from the LFR version to see if it increases accuracy. Just an idea.
- Have we moved Jade Spirit over to the PPM model?
- Add a check for differences between Armory stats and calculated for upgraded items and adjust any differences found automatically.
- New random stat loot from scenarios.
[edit]Upgraded blue items may be a little funky in this version, just read that the output from the API is giving different results for different quality items so I'll need to apply a check to that. Augh.[/edit]
Last edited by Tecton : 12/19/12 at 10:02 AM.
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12/19/12, 9:09 PM
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#670
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Glass Joe
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Having an issue with latest WC Build, whenever I change the trinket in - Trinket Slot 1, to a trinket other than Essence of Terror (all versions), the calculated DPS box shows an error "Value Not Available"
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12/20/12, 2:10 AM
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#671
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Soda Popinski
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Originally Posted by Drayarr
Having an issue with latest WC Build, whenever I change the trinket in - Trinket Slot 1, to a trinket other than Essence of Terror (all versions), the calculated DPS box shows an error "Value Not Available"
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Let me know if this sorts it:
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12/20/12, 7:07 AM
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#672
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Piston Honda
Worgen Druid
Bronzebeard (EU)
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For over a day I was logged out in resto set and even tho I have switched back to balance over an hour ago (armory shows current set), WC still imports previous set.
EDIT: PC restart didn't help. Problem exists also in older version of WC.
Last edited by Lilija : 12/20/12 at 7:44 AM.
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12/20/12, 8:19 AM
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#673
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Tecton
Let me know if this sorts it:
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Thats it sorted, thanks a bunch for the quick fix 
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12/21/12, 6:01 AM
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#674
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Soda Popinski
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Originally Posted by Lilija
For over a day I was logged out in resto set and even tho I have switched back to balance over an hour ago (armory shows current set), WC still imports previous set.
EDIT: PC restart didn't help. Problem exists also in older version of WC.
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Try resetting your router I guess? I've seen it returning what I assume to be cached data sometimes, but it's never lasted as long as you're describing.
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12/21/12, 5:18 PM
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#675
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Glass Joe
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nvm
Last edited by Sunshining : 12/22/12 at 7:51 AM.
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