I rarely get a shaman because our GM believes that our three mages can put out more DPS and benefit more from him so why waste the buffs on me.

We do have 2 caster groups if you include hunters as casters. But i generally can't find s spot in either group

As always, I am not quite good with math, so I also hope this topic doesn´t go as off topic.

I would like to know if the dps I am showing on this fight of Na´jentus is on par with what it should be: Wow Web Stats.

And if it is or it is not, tell me if the way I am gemming is appropriate (5 haste/6 spell dmg) or any issues I should fix. I just want to have it clear in my mind what the raw considerations on our discussions affects the real WoW, lol. What I mean is, I am over 1077 dmg, so I should use a haste:dmg ratio of 1:1 or so I figure, if it is wrong np. Oh, the hit cap is a bit lower, it is intended, since I am thinking of T6 as a fix for it, unless I get another weapon with crit, and then fix it trough the ring.

PS: So that I can work with the haste on my tutorial properly, if you want to check it out (even though it is in brazillian portuguese and has only up to the talents so far) Druid Balance: The Way of the Starlight

Soul: plug your stats into the spreadsheet or my dps simulator and see what your theoretical dps looks like. Work from there.

I know this has been rehashed a dozen times or so, and I've come across the equations for dmg and haste, and their point of inflection, but I can't find an equation for crit. I've been following the general rule of thumb that hit > spell/haste > crit, with haste stacking after 1200-ish (the inverse ratio type thing).

I'm just finding it interesting that crit does seem to be so under-rated, is it just because of how few percentage points crit itemization brings? With 5/5 vengeance (+100% crit dmg), that makes crit a growth with respect to damage increase...of course haste on top would always, always increase damage, I'd love to see the equation (and maybe graph it) to see how the growth of crit/dmg vs the growth of haste/dmg and where their inflection points are... something to get a clearer picture of how the 1.2:1.0 crossover for haste is, and how the relationship of crit damage in respect to actual spell damage build up would be... This is a quick and dirty thought and may be way off, but I know my mages love when I'm in their group and they get up to around 50% crit...for us, at 50% crit, wouldn't that make crit% 1.5:1 vs the 1.2:1 of haste stat? I know this means that +crit needs more meat behind it, but doesn't the benefit from crit get "cheaper" as you get more +dmg? I've seen everything from 500-700 being the dmg breakpoint for also crit stacking not considering our balance talent increase (Stat comparison - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft ) Is it because we are generally at 25-30% crit with gear/aura alone that the math pushes it out of the way? This math put out that at 1500, 1 crat (1 crit stat) and 1 dmg were equivalent, but that doesn't take into account our vengeance bonus, so as a moonkin, doesn't this value drop?
+dmg base dps crit% total dps increase
1500 748.57 25% 935.71
1501 748.86 25% 936.07 0.36
1500 748.57 25.048% 936.07 0.36

...just curious...

I know it's been discussed that MF should always be kept up, but you should not pause to wait for MF to finish ticking. However, I seem to be getting less dps when I do that. SF spam appears to do more damage when spreadsheets say otherwise. I have 136 (but more when drumsing) haste and ~100-200 ping, and I wear ashtongue trinket. Is it the ashtongue trinket that is causing this? Or am I simply at a point where it's better to spam SF anyway?

One other thing I was confused about is why the "gemming for haste" includes 1392 + (currentHaste *1.2). I understand about the rest of it, but I don't understand why you need to take your haste into account. Did I misread, and I only should include haste from GEMS?

No, you're reading it correctly. It's because you're trying to find a match in benefit between Haste and Spell Damage. However, while any Spell Damage you have makes Haste more useful, adding Haste makes Spell Damage more useful. That's why the numbers balance, then progress on a 1:1 ratio. So if I have a point where Haste=Spell Damage, and I add 1 Haste, Spell Damage is now worth more. I then add 1 Spell Damage, and the two balance again.

Is this true? Haste:Damage is different from Crit:Damage because the value of Haste increases with more haste, where the value of Crit decreases with more crit.

When adding haste to my spreadsheet, I'm getting far more benefit from adding additional haste gems than adding damage gems.

No. More haste does not make haste more effective. More haste makes haste less (relatively) effective. It's actually that one point of haste, keeping everything else constant, always gives the exact same DPS benefit. Everything else, however, gets more effective. The same is true of Hit. The same is true of Crit. The same is true of Spell Damage. Because of Nature's Grace, the relationship for Hit and Crit is not 1:1 paste a certain point, it's more like 1.05:1 or something similarly trivial. Haste is 1:1. But EVERY stat has relative diminishing returns. There is no stat that we should stack to exclusion of all else. Only points where stats become more effective than spell damage, after which we should balance them. For hit, that point is around 600 spell damage. For haste, around 1080. For Crit, around 1700, but since we start out with a relatively large amount of crit anyway, it's really not useful to gear towards until around 2000. Not saying you shouldn't get it, just don't try to stack it.

Ariyana: 22.08 is the crit rating to percent conversion. 22.08 crit rating is always, for every caster, equal to 1% crit (at level 70). Vengeance has nothing to do with it.

1077 is the point where 1 haste = 1 spell damage. 1392 is the point where 1 haste = 1.2 spell damage, which is a convenient number because of gems, nothing more. Since you're still well below 1392, you will still get more benefit from a Spinel than from a Pyrestone or a Lionseye. Though remember that 1392 includes raid buffs. I'm at just under 1100 unbuffed, about at 1350 buffed, so take that into account.

As for the crit breakpoint, what exactly do you want to graph? Effective spell damage of 1 crit rating vs spell damage? The breakpoint is a number, unaffected by stats (except for crit, which is minorly affected by hit, and vice versa). The equation for finding the breakpoint for Haste is a few pages back, I think somewhere in the late 50s.

alright cool. I was looking to graph crit over time because it's not a linear growth right? It has a factor of both a magnified increase and a rate of diminished returns built into it. Was curious to see it visually.

You said unbuffed you are 1100, but is that counting your gems? The 1392 is with all buffs and existing gems? (was checking out your armory)...my 1032 was no counting any gems at all, unbuffed but with my current gemming I'm 1237, raid buffed I'm rather close to 1400 or over, don't remember the exact number atm.

Actually, the point at which 1 haste = 1 spell damage is sdmg = 1077+haste. It's only 1077 if you don't have any haste at all yet.

Same for the gemming number, the point at which 10 haste = 12 spell damage is sdmg = 1392+1.2*haste. Again, it's 1392 only if you don't have any haste at all yet.

Just to clarify ^^

The usual consumable buffs get you 142 spelldamage (Flask+oil+food). Keep in mind that you also might gain improved DS or wrath of air totem which are bringing you to the 1392+haste fairly fast.