Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 101

Candela · 05/26/08, 6:58 AM

Originally Posted by Benita

The usual consumable buffs get you 142 spelldamage (Flask+oil+food). Keep in mind that you also might gain improved DS or wrath of air totem which are bringing you to the 1392+haste fairly fast.

80 + 23 + 42 = 145

Melador · 05/27/08, 3:08 PM

Well, 139 if you're using crit oil. Pretty sure 14 crit rating > 6 damage.

• Adoriele · 05/27/08, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Melador

Well, 139 if you're using crit oil. Pretty sure 14 crit rating > 6 damage.

It's pretty close, but yes.

ifurita · 05/28/08, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lambach

Well, of course mages should be putting out more dps then you....but does he understand how group buffs work? And you cant really call a group with hunters caster, cause they gain benefit from neither you or the shaman. In fact, its better group synergy to have you in the real caster group, and have a mage in the hunter group(assuming they are BM). I don't know what to tell you man, could be that your GM doesnt know what hes doing, or maybe he does, and you arent worth the raid spot. Without some WWS its impossible to know.

This is the WWS from our previous night's Brutallus attempts:
Wow Web Stats

We had put our one elemental shaman with the mages this fight because at 20%, heroismed fire mages with combustion and molten fury do the most single target DPS possible. Our boomkin was in the same group as our warlocks with a shadow priest. We usually try to fit him into one of the two caster groups when possible since we casters like the 5% crit buff - our shamans have sort of sporadic attendance so if only one shammy is available, whichever caster group that doesn't get the shammy will get the boomkin.

Dathis is the only moonkin in our guild, so we don't really know where/how to place him in terms of DPS expectations. I understand if damage is lower when we place him in sub-optimal groups, but when in the same group as other casters what should be be looking for relative to pure damage dealers and other hybrids (e.g. shadow priests and shamans)?

Soultrigger · 05/28/08, 3:55 PM

Hi there ^^

It seems I am doing about 1300-1400 dps as a moonkin with leather badge gear (ilvl 128), so I think he should output more dps there.

Najentus Kill

Akama Kill without BL (damn, resto shammie :/)

I am showing you that as a way to compare.

Bellawynn · 05/28/08, 5:29 PM

Ifurita:

I think I'm in comparable, if not slightly worse gear than your moonkin, and might be able to say a bit to help you judge what's going on. We had our first Brut kill last night, along with two 1% attempts, so there's a bit of data here if you want to pour over specifics: Wow Web Stats

The group I'm in is two Fire Mages, an Ele Shaman, a Destro Lock and myself. The mages usually pop mana potions instead of destro, while the rest of us use destro potions. I find that I'm fine on mana, usually getting low about halfway through, but since we put the SPriest in with the healers (1 Disc/Holy, 1 Holy, 1 Haste Resto Shaman, and a slightly undergeared Pally) I can keep my innervate to myself which puts me back near full again. The only time where mana became tight was in the last 30 seconds because we had had Drums of Battle up 50% of the time and two Bloodlusts.

As far as I can tell from looking at the logs, he or she has a good rotation, which means the difference probably comes down to group composition and other small details. Elemental shamans are easily our best friends at this gear level. We only run one dps caster group (though our tank group could be considered one with most of our spare warlocks ending up in it), so it's natural to stack the two of us together. I would also investigate what your moonkin is doing in terms of Idols. [Idol of the Raven Goddess] will be the best choice for heavy crit groups as it lends almost another 1% crit to the group and doesn't suffer any accidental GCD invocations found with idol swapping, particularly with +haste gear since the weapon GCD doesn't seem to get lowered with haste like spells.

Other differences I found:

The use of 6mp5 on chest vs 15 spirit, probably not an issue since there was a SPriest, but will make a slight difference without one.
The use of Adept+Wisdom instead of a Flask of Blinding Light
There should be 8 Faerie Fires casted during fight, your moonkin only casted 5 times. This won't necessarily be an improvement in their DPS, but if a significant portion are actually using that extra 3% hit then the raid is losing out on physical dps. I only go to 2% and get treants instead.
Treants are nice for this fight because you can effectively pop them 3 times and they should survive the entire fight because there isn't any damage getting thrown about that they're susceptible to.

At the moment I would consider how to bring up your overall raid DPS instead of focusing on just one member, as there were only two people above the ~1850 dps per person that the raid needs to average with 8 healers.

I should also point out that it might be worthwhile to make more use of offspecs. UA locks, Enh shamans, Survival Hunters, Improve Expose Armor Rogues, Ret Paladins, etc. You usually only need one of these, but what you lose an individual's dps is made up by the benefit they give to the party or raid.

Kaug · 05/28/08, 5:35 PM

Originally Posted by Soultrigger

Hi there ^^

It seems I am doing about 1300-1400 dps as a moonkin with leather badge gear (ilvl 128), so I think he should output more dps there.

Najentus Kill

Akama Kill without BL (damn, resto shammie :/)

I am showing you that as a way to compare.

Teron gorefiend is generally accepted to be the best dps test in BT. This is because unless you are ghosted and die early it is the most 'stand and blast away' fight. Other fights have movement required, transitions, decursing\abolishing etc.

I had a SPriest but no Shammy and i'm hitting 1400-1500 dps
Wow Web Stats

PS in general, WWS will show moonkin having relatively low 'dps' but really high 'dps time' because of our DOTs keep us in 'dps time'. What really matters, imo, is total damage, which is what wws sorts on by default. Actually dead bosses matter most, followed by total damage output.

• Adoriele · 05/28/08, 5:47 PM

I'll echo that 1185 is a bit low, given his gear. I can hit just below that in a mix of Kara, badge, and early T5 gear, and going up against 4T6 that's saying something. I ran a little quick math on his casting, and given the amount of haste he has, as the number of NG procs he would have gotten, he was casting for about 4'54" out of the 6'08" that the try lasted. That's abysmal, especially on a fight where every last drop of DPS matters. He did get Burn twice, and I'm not factoring in any latency, but that's still not an awesome amount of casting time.

Second, he only cast IS four times, which leads me to believe you're not asking him to keep it up to help the tank out with avoidance. If that's the case, he needs to just drop it from his rotation completely. It's not worth the GCD with the amount of gear he has.

ifurita · 05/28/08, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bellawynn

There should be 8 Faerie Fires casted during fight, your moonkin only casted 5 times. This won't necessarily be an improvement in their DPS, but if a significant portion are actually using that extra 3% hit then the raid is losing out on physical dps. I only go to 2% and get treants instead.
Treants are nice for this fight because you can effectively pop them 3 times and they should survive the entire fight because there isn't any damage getting thrown about that they're susceptible to.

I believe our melees were asking for Faerie Fire, but it fell off once or twice during the fight.

Originally Posted by Bellawynn

At the moment I would consider how to bring up your overall raid DPS instead of focusing on just one member, as there were only two people above the ~1850 dps per person that the raid needs to average with 8 healers.

I should also point out that it might be worthwhile to make more use of offspecs. UA locks, Enh shamans, Survival Hunters, Improve Expose Armor Rogues, Ret Paladins, etc. You usually only need one of these, but what you lose an individual's dps is made up by the benefit they give to the party or raid.

We have killed Brutallus once already, but on our kill shot we only had 7 healers and much better stacked groups (including an enhancement shaman and ret pally). We do have quite a few hybrids and offspecs, but only one moonkin who usually does less damage than the other hybrids. But we just don't know whether that's simply because of moonkin design or if there are areas for improvement (e.g. rotation, dps time, etc.). Anyways, if you guys have suggestions, I know he's been following this thread and I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

Celdhyrean · 05/28/08, 7:59 PM

There should be 8 Faerie Fires casted during fight, your moonkin only casted 5 times

As far as i know, WWS won't register a new faery fire application if the old one is still up, refreshing a debuff doesn't appear in the combat log.

Scarius · 05/29/08, 3:20 AM

Originally Posted by ifurita

This is the WWS from our previous night's Brutallus attempts:
Wow Web Stats

We had put our one elemental shaman with the mages this fight because at 20%, heroismed fire mages with combustion and molten fury do the most single target DPS possible. Our boomkin was in the same group as our warlocks with a shadow priest. We usually try to fit him into one of the two caster groups when possible since we casters like the 5% crit buff - our shamans have sort of sporadic attendance so if only one shammy is available, whichever caster group that doesn't get the shammy will get the boomkin.

Dathis is the only moonkin in our guild, so we don't really know where/how to place him in terms of DPS expectations. I understand if damage is lower when we place him in sub-optimal groups, but when in the same group as other casters what should be be looking for relative to pure damage dealers and other hybrids (e.g. shadow priests and shamans)?

On Brutallus, with CoS up he should be at 17-1800 dps with a optimal Group. This is where i sit when i get CoS, of course without CoS 1600 is a reasonable number and even lower with a subpar Dps Group.

Treants do a good 10-11k dmg per cast.

Heres a WWS of Brutallus the other Night where I Didn't have CoS. Wow Web Stats

Probably the biggest factor is the fact he had a 27% crit rate with starfire... which is horrendous...

Candela · 05/29/08, 4:11 AM

Originally Posted by Celdhyrean

As far as i know, WWS won't register a new faery fire application if the old one is still up, refreshing a debuff doesn't appear in the combat log.

i wonder if that still is true with 2.4 changes. since the combatlog now also has information about every single spell one casts. but might be the reason.

nakedduck · 05/29/08, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

he was casting for about 4'54" out of the 6'08" that the try lasted. That's abysmal, especially on a fight where every last drop of DPS matters. He did get Burn twice, and I'm not factoring in any latency, but that's still not an awesome amount of casting time.

I think this is where the problem is. He's not casting enough. Looking at the combat log, there's some serious problems with his moonfires. Here's some snips of starfires followed by moonfires:

02:16'45.590 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 796 Arcane damage (2065 resisted)
02:16'45.961 Dathis's Moonfire hits Brutallus for 818 Arcane damage
02:16'52.045 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 3242 Arcane damage
02:16'55.203 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 3459 Arcane damage
02:16'57.208 Dathis's Moonfire crits Brutallus for 1658 Arcane damage

02:13'37.588 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 3164 Arcane damage
02:13'40.409 Dathis's Moonfire crits Brutallus for 1704 Arcane damage

02:12'55.846 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 3183 Arcane damage
02:12'56.247 Dathis's Moonfire hits Brutallus for 798 Arcane damage
02:13'02.743 Dathis's Starfire crits Brutallus for 7539 Arcane damage

02:17'26.519 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 2979 Arcane damage
02:17'28.130 Dathis's Moonfire crits Brutallus for 1742 Arcane damage
02:17'34.153 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 3589 Arcane damage

02:13'37.588 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 3164 Arcane damage
02:13'40.409 Dathis's Moonfire crits Brutallus for 1704 Arcane damage
02:13'44.418 Dathis's Starfire hits Brutallus for 3470 Arcane damage

Now, if you look carefully at the timestamps, he's getting some very serious time delays around his moonfires. A moonfire should almost instantly hit the same time as the previous starfire does. The parses above all show 1-3 second delay. Starfire follow-ups after the moonfire should be 4.5 seconds tops (can't really armory him, at work, so i can't see how much haste he has)

I'm wondering if he's using a idol swap macro or add-on that may be screwing him up.

dathis · 05/29/08, 12:37 PM

Thank you all for the input. Especially your last analysis nakkeduck. I believe you hit the nail on the head I am still using idol swap macros and now that I have been more critical of my own DPS in game I can see how they are messing me up.

As an aside have any of you found a good set of timers that includes the 2pT6 bonus or a mod that does something really annoying when you debuffs fall off our target.

Thank you again all.

• Adoriele · 05/29/08, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by dathis

Thank you all for the input. Especially your last analysis nakkeduck. I believe you hit the nail on the head I am still using idol swap macros and now that I have been more critical of my own DPS in game I can see how they are messing me up.

As an aside have any of you found a good set of timers that includes the 2pT6 bonus or a mod that does something really annoying when you debuffs fall off our target.

Thank you again all.

I use Elkano's Buff Bars. Create a group that filters out everything but your own debuffs (target = target, remove timeless auras, only show debuffs). It's the most central part of my UI, and allows me to see exactly when my debuffs are going to drop off. I don't currently show the time left, as the bars give me a good enough idea, though I may in the future once I get 4T5 as I'll start clipping my DoTs at that point (or not, if it turns out that the 10% on the last SF isn't worth clipping the last tick of MF/IS.

[edit=ninja]

Right in the center, between the target and focus frames. Incredibly useful, and has made my DPS jump immensely ever since I moved my UI around to incorporate it.