Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 102

Bellawynn · 05/29/08, 1:01 PM

I use a combination of Bongos3 and OmniCC to show what debuffs are on a target and how much time is left on them. In the past I've also used Dotimers.

OmniCC
Bongos 3
DoTimers

nakedduck · 05/29/08, 2:34 PM

Oh one last small thing, not a real big deal, but you're clipping your moonfires. You cast moonfire 22 times, had 102 moonfire dots when ideally you should have had 110. While this isn't a huge deal, it's just another thing you can look at to squeeze in a bit more dps.

Soultrigger · 05/29/08, 2:54 PM

I use powerauras, I configure it to show some image when one of my buffs is on, if it is not, it won´t show. So I know when to renew it. Poweraura let you crate images/animation to any buff/debuff in the game.

Drbass · 05/29/08, 6:24 PM

One more small little nit pick dathus. I went through your armory and right now from what I can tell you have 148 haste rating(man I wish they would update it to show haste). This really isn't enough haste to make the Ashtounge Trinket a good one. I believe the haste required to get one more starfire off in the amount of time the buff is up is somewhere around 190. There is some math on it earlier on in this thread. Untill then you might want to think about maybe a Darkmoon Card:Crusade or Hex of shrunken heads.

handoverfist · 05/29/08, 6:30 PM

Originally Posted by ifurita

This is the WWS from our previous night's Brutallus attempts:
Wow Web Stats

We had put our one elemental shaman with the mages this fight because at 20%, heroismed fire mages with combustion and molten fury do the most single target DPS possible. Our boomkin was in the same group as our warlocks with a shadow priest. We usually try to fit him into one of the two caster groups when possible since we casters like the 5% crit buff - our shamans have sort of sporadic attendance so if only one shammy is available, whichever caster group that doesn't get the shammy will get the boomkin.

Dathis is the only moonkin in our guild, so we don't really know where/how to place him in terms of DPS expectations. I understand if damage is lower when we place him in sub-optimal groups, but when in the same group as other casters what should be be looking for relative to pure damage dealers and other hybrids (e.g. shadow priests and shamans)?

He should defiantly be putting out more damage especially if he has the luxury of having a shadow priest. This is the WWS from our last kill Wow Web Stats ended up getting 2 innervates and still going oom at the end of the fight, but we have pretty similar gear. Also, I would agree with bass in using a darkmoon card over the ashtongue if your haste is low especially cause you have to rely on a proc.

Rillumarei · 05/29/08, 7:06 PM

First of all I just have to say how much I respect you people for being able to calculate these things in order
to maximize pretty much everything. You must understand that I have grown desperate in these past few weeks.
I have tried to comprehend your calculators and spreadsheets and they give me an estimated 1800+ dps raidbuffed with my stats. Every single time. For example Lherin's Moonkin DPS Simulator. Those kind of numbers are quite aspiring, however I find myself dealing less and less dps each day. 1350, 1300, 1250, 1110.. I tell you. With t6-gear that is rather depressing when you think you're doing the best you can. Sometimes I seem to deal more dps unbuffed than raidbuffed and all the reasons I can come up with are partial resists and critless streaks. I've tried to study this thread closely.
I dropped IS and started using MF+SFx5-cycle. It did not really make a difference though. I'm working with 157 haste rating, 1334 Arcane Spelldmg, 23.34% spell critical strike chance and 154 spell hit and with both t6-set bonuses. Unbuffed.
And these 1200-1300 dps numbers raidbuffed are devastating. Not just for my mental health, but for my pride as well.
Please. I am not asking you to teach me, I'm just asking if you could please point out some small but essential thing I have missed. Or is it really so that I am the most misfortunate guy out there and it's all about luck?

Hengeyokai · 05/30/08, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by dathis

Thank you all for the input. Especially your last analysis nakkeduck. I believe you hit the nail on the head I am still using idol swap macros and now that I have been more critical of my own DPS in game I can see how they are messing me up.

As an aside have any of you found a good set of timers that includes the 2pT6 bonus or a mod that does something really annoying when you debuffs fall off our target.

Thank you again all.

Hello all, new poster here. You make it sound like idol swapping is a bad thing, I thought the whole point of idol swapping was to help our dps not to hurt it. Should I discontinue using the macros? I notice the GCD of the wrath idol adding a little time on my initial cast of my wrath idol macro but with Moonfire and Starfire I'm not seeing any noticeable delays. Any advice on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

• Adoriele · 05/30/08, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Rillumarei

First of all I just have to say how much I respect you people for being able to calculate these things in order
to maximize pretty much everything. You must understand that I have grown desperate in these past few weeks.
I have tried to comprehend your calculators and spreadsheets and they give me an estimated 1800+ dps raidbuffed with my stats. Every single time. For example Lherin's Moonkin DPS Simulator. Those kind of numbers are quite aspiring, however I find myself dealing less and less dps each day. 1350, 1300, 1250, 1110.. I tell you. With t6-gear that is rather depressing when you think you're doing the best you can. Sometimes I seem to deal more dps unbuffed than raidbuffed and all the reasons I can come up with are partial resists and critless streaks. I've tried to study this thread closely.
I dropped IS and started using MF+SFx5-cycle. It did not really make a difference though. I'm working with 157 haste rating, 1334 Arcane Spelldmg, 23.34% spell critical strike chance and 154 spell hit and with both t6-set bonuses. Unbuffed.
And these 1200-1300 dps numbers raidbuffed are devastating. Not just for my mental health, but for my pride as well.
Please. I am not asking you to teach me, I'm just asking if you could please point out some small but essential thing I have missed. Or is it really so that I am the most misfortunate guy out there and it's all about luck?

What sort of buffs are you getting?
Do you have a pocket Spriest?
Are you ever running out of mana?
How bad is your latency?

There are a ton of questions you need to ask yourself before we can help you. If you are accurately modeling your gear and buffs in the sheet, then (barring the haste bug), you can trust the sheet to tell you an approximation of your DPS. We're not as streaky as an Enhancement Shaman. Generally, put in double your expected lag, and expect a 3-4% deficit if you're the iFF bitch for the raid.

That said, I'm uploading a new version of my sheet. I would LOVE to have this extensively tested, as it incorporates a bunch of statistical weighting that I'm not sure I got 100% right. Basically, it will try to predict how much DPS you will do given a certain rotation by weighting each combination of NG procs and resulting damage by percent chance to occur. It includes the ability to fit in an extra SF by getting enough procs, and allows you to clip the last ticks of your DoTs if you prefer, for instance when you have 4T5 (there's a quick shortcut here, I may flesh this out with a better model). 4T5 itself is not yet modeled, though.

For example: My usual rotation is IS, MF, SFx3. If I get more than 2 NG procs, though, I can start casting a 4th SF before my DoTs drop off, so I do. The spreadsheet calculates the chance I have of getting X procs in 3 casts (plus the chance that I had a proc up when the rotation started), and weights the amount of damage I do knowing that I got some guaranteed crits in there by that chance. It does the same for total rotation cast time, averages both, and comes out with average DPS. For me, personally, it comes very close to what I see in raids.

Usual caveat applies: This makes no account for mana, and assumes you pay attention to your cast rotation. As such, it is an expected amount of pure DPS. For those who'd like to test it, please keep this in mind when comparing to in-game DPS feedback.

[edit] Henge, Idol swapping is only bad if it hurts your rotation. If you don't notice any problems trying to cast and not being able to when you swap idols, you'll be fine.

ariyana · 06/01/08, 1:04 AM

Originally Posted by Benita

The usual consumable buffs get you 142 spelldamage (Flask+oil+food). Keep in mind that you also might gain improved DS or wrath of air totem which are bringing you to the 1392+haste fairly fast.

Yeah, luckily I always get built into the "peen" group because the others love my crit. We end up being either 3 warlocks/ mage, me and enh shaman or 2 warlocks/mage, me, enh shaman and spriest. I blinding light flask most of the time, spell dmg food, brilliant wiz oil (crit/dmg)...

I have to look into this impact from trinket swapping and lag in my meters though because I seem to be about 200dps off a lot of the WWS logs here, I don't have a T5 or T6 bonus, but I didn't think I was -that- far behind in gear... I know that I get stuck healing myself in najentus to ease up raid heals, that hurts, and I'm on decurse duty in Archimonde, but otherwise I should be up there. I seem to fluctuate between 1000-1200.

~1100 on gorefiend: Wow Web Stats
~950 on najentus: Wow Web Stats
~1150 on rage: Wow Web Stats

vaultene · 06/01/08, 3:30 AM

Can anyone tell me what the hit rating cap is or should be for a balance druid? I'm getting some nice gear with high hit rating and now its up to 17%. I would like to know if I can dump some of it and put in some spell damage gems instead of the hit rating ones i have. Spell damage bonus is almost 2000 . thanks so much. Vaultene

Yilfin · 06/01/08, 7:16 AM

Greetings everybody

I'll really appreciate if some theorycrafters can give us their feedback with several weeks or even months of use now concerning the 2.4 badge caster gear. Is the spirit in the leather gear is superior to the 1% (a little bit more) of additional crit rating in the warlock cloth gear, if we take into consideration that spirit is increased by bok in raid, and 10% of it is transferred to spell power with improved divine spirit ? In the spreedsheet, it seems that warlock cloth gear allow a little bit more dps, but regen is also important in long fights, or for "lazy" players like me, i'm feral and i just respec boomkin the week-end to change a little bit of gameplay, and don't want to mana pot every cd. I think that it will be very helpful to many new moonkins who hesitates a lot in front of these new gear (i'm talking of leather spirit + crit gear vs cloth without spirit but more crit rating), to have the opinions with hindsight of users of these items, do you choose the leather one, the cloth one, do you regret your choice or are fully satisfied with these items ?

Edit: i forgot the fact that haste become a very good stat at a certain level of spell power, and we must have the mana and the regen to sustain faster dps cycles, so spirit may be good for that, isn't it ?

spi · 06/01/08, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by ariyana

Yeah, luckily I always get built into the "peen" group because the others love my crit. We end up being either 3 warlocks/ mage, me and enh shaman or 2 warlocks/mage, me, enh shaman and spriest. I blinding light flask most of the time, spell dmg food, brilliant wiz oil (crit/dmg)...

I have to look into this impact from trinket swapping and lag in my meters though because I seem to be about 200dps off a lot of the WWS logs here, I don't have a T5 or T6 bonus, but I didn't think I was -that- far behind in gear... I know that I get stuck healing myself in najentus to ease up raid heals, that hurts, and I'm on decurse duty in Archimonde, but otherwise I should be up there. I seem to fluctuate between 1000-1200.

~1100 on gorefiend: Wow Web Stats
~950 on najentus: Wow Web Stats
~1150 on rage: Wow Web Stats

I probably have a lot more gear than you do but I usually fluctuate from 2000-2200 dps on teron with spriest and resto shammy. What are your spell dmg/hit/haste stats like? seems like you're getting a heroism. Mine are somewhere around 1480SD 230 haste 24% crit with buffs. No ele shaman, no ret pally in raid.

ariyana · 06/02/08, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by vaultene

Can anyone tell me what the hit rating cap is or should be for a balance druid? I'm getting some nice gear with high hit rating and now its up to 17%. I would like to know if I can dump some of it and put in some spell damage gems instead of the hit rating ones i have. Spell damage bonus is almost 2000 . thanks so much. Vaultene

151/152.

ariyana · 06/02/08, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by spi

I probably have a lot more gear than you do but I usually fluctuate from 2000-2200 dps on teron with spriest and resto shammy. What are your spell dmg/hit/haste stats like? seems like you're getting a heroism. Mine are somewhere around 1480SD 230 haste 24% crit with buffs. No ele shaman, no ret pally in raid.

Yeah, you definitely way outgear me.

lol....I'll have to write it down next tuesday when I raid... I have very little haste outside of a heroism as I've just started to add it on, so its only about 15 or so. I'm somewhere in the 1400s SD wise with 32-33% crit I believe, but I'll double check on Tuesday.

spi · 06/02/08, 1:31 AM

I checked my stats today it's about 29%crit, 240 haste, 1495 spell dmg. Well I looked over my old WWS and compared it to yours.

[ Wow Web Stats ] is my parse on teron two weeks ago or so.

It seems that I casted more starfires in 3 minutes of my encounter than your 5 minutes of encounter (my 240 haste can't make up for that much).

It seems like you casted 16 moonfires on a 5 minute fight. Assuming you have 2 piece T6, you should've had 20 moonfires or so if you were to refresh it without clipping it. (i'm assuming that you do have 2 piece) Few more if you dont have the 2 piece.

You also had 44 starfire hits and 22 crits, that's 66 total starfires. Assuming your starfires shoot on average of 2.6 seconds or so (33% crit rate and little bit of haste and heroism). Not accounting for pushback at all and subtracting the moonfire cast time (16 GCD), during a 5 minute fight you should have had about 106 starfires shot during that time.. even after pushback. I haven't gone through details of the log so I'm not sure if you're having severe latency issue or you had to do many things in between but it looks like you were alive the whole time and didn't get the ghosts. Even if you had to battle res, it shouldn't have taken more than 10 seconds max. Looking at the dps done i don't think you had threat issues either.

What prevented you from chain casting your starfire during the fight?

Let me count up the times that you casted.

16 moonfires (1.4s cast time ea) 66 starfires ( 2.6s ave cast time), 2 treants, looks like there was no imp FF on the boss.

16x1.4 + 66x2.6 + 2 x 1.4 = 22.4 + 171.6 + 2.8 = 196.8s

I'm not sure what you did for almost the third of time that you were dpsing the boss. During 4 min 55s encounter you only casted for 2/3 of the time. There has to be a problem somewhere. You can't be running oom with a spriest and only casting that many spells.

My theories are that you probably
1. have over 1000ms latency that you can't even take advantage of the spell queue system
2. are not spamming your buttons to take advantage of spell queue system
3. have a really screwed up idol switching macro/moves.
4. take too long to battle res(i dont think you did battle res though)
5. have a tea party at your house while raiding.

It would be more informative for us to figure out how to improve your dps if we can find out what's causing you to cast less starfire than you are allowed to during that given time. I honestly think with your gear level and the group you were in (spriest + shaman), you should be doing 1650 dps sustained, maybe 1500-1600ish on teron due to pushbacks. (according to Dr. Boom, which works pretty accurately for me).

Feel free to correct me if I did things completely wrong.