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Old 06/08/08, 2:06 AM   #1576
Melador
Mercurial Rapper
 
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Troll Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by RoseQuartz View Post
(Melador, 2.7k is not on Boss fights where Misery and CoS are up all the time. It was something I took from the only WWS report I still have (from Hyjal instance), where there are a lot of trash waves and not necessarily debuffs on each. It's averaged numbers for that whole instance. For Rage, The average SF was 2907 and average MF was 737 + 454 ticks. Doesn't make a huge difference for these approximate calculations.)
Sure, but even with those previous numbers you listed, your moonfire should effectively be just over 2200 dps. There's no way removing it should be even close to improving your dps.

With your approximate stats I'm seeing a 90dps difference between SF+MF and just SF using my simulator (DrBoom).

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Old 06/08/08, 4:20 AM   #1577
RoseQuartz
Mrs Featherbottom
 
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Mal'Ganis
Do you mean the NPC in Netherstorm or some mod you wrote? If it's the latter, ignore what I'm saying here.

I really dislike the ole Dr. Boom due to the limited number of casts I can do there before I run oom. And even averaging out results would require a lot of attempts to get to something believable for each set of gear and rotation. Last time I experimented there (a couple days ago), I had anywhere between 11% crit rate on starfire and 46%... 400dps difference between the extremes. The random nature of crits and inconsistent group compositions makes it hard to test rotations and track item changes on WWS as well =/

Also, 2200dps from Moonfire? Typo? For each of the 2 Moonfires you don't cast, you spend that time casting an additional Starfire. All can crit. 6k dmg from 2 non crit Moonfires with DoTs vs. 6k dmg from 1 crit Starfire. I can see how the difference can be small. Incorrect reasoning here?

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Old 06/08/08, 10:36 AM   #1578
Melador
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Mal'Ganis
Yeah, it's a little standalone dps simulation app I wrote (should be releasing an updated version today).

And yeah, 2200 effective dps -- using the earlier numbers of 679 average with 439 ticks, and 240 haste. Thats 2874 damage from a single 1.3 second GCD, or an effective 2200 dps. Obviously that relies on letting it tick out so you can't simply spam it and do 2200 dps, but you're getting 2874 damage from only 1.3 seconds of casting. You need to have a higher effective dps than that with just starfire spam for removing it from your rotation to increase your dps.

And of course your moonfire damage will go up as your starfire damage goes up, so it's unclear to me that there's ever a point where removing it from your rotation makes sense.

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Old 06/08/08, 6:03 PM   #1579
Melador
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Mal'Ganis
A new versoin of DrBoom, my moonkin dps simulator, is available:

DrBoom 1.0b released - Deus Vox Guild Message Board

What's New:
  • Added "Self Drum?" for calculating GCD used if you are one of the members of your group using drums.
  • Added support for multiple heroisms/bloodlusts.
  • Added two more cycles (MF+IS+Wrath and IS+Wrath).
  • Added two more trinkets (Glowing Crystal Insignia and Vengeance of the Illidari).
  • Changed raidbuffs to be multiplicative with gear/talent buffs, not additive.
  • Fixed some tab-cycling order issues (though it's still not quite right).
Attached Thumbnails
drboom_v10b.jpg  

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Old 06/08/08, 9:05 PM   #1580
Iondrive
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dunemaul
Awesome simulator! One thing that is bugging me though is the large crit % on starfire. I entered 18% crit and the simulator has me critting starfires 32.59% (instead of 18+5.9+4=27.9%) of the time. Where is all that crit coming from?

Edit: Ah nevermind, i had 4pc T6 checked, my bad. =P

Last edited by Iondrive : 06/08/08 at 9:16 PM.

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Old 06/09/08, 2:01 AM   #1581
Lambach
Don Flamenco
 
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Cenarion Circle
I'm getting some wierd values for trinkets. In my normal gear, ashtongue talisman is coming out a good 20dps higher then hex head or skull of guldan. Lightning capacitor also comes up higher then hex and skull, I suppose with enough haste this could be possible, but....it seems rather conterintuitive. Is this a problem with how the simulator runs trinkets? Or should we really all be switching trinkets around?

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Old 06/09/08, 6:01 AM   #1582
Saraya
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
The following might be the cause of your trinket woes:
1) Moonfire crit rate is 4% too high as the crit rate is 10% over base crit and not 10% over starfire crit. If you look at the results, you can see its always 10% higher. (Helps lit cap a bit)

2) The crit % in the field should be without the 5% from moonkin aura(and obviously, should also not include totem of wrath). If you include these in your base crit rating, it will also make the lit cap even better.

3) Are you manually adding/subtracting the stats you'd get from the skull/hex head when switching to/from it? This would explain the sim favoring the statless trinkets(I'm not getting this same problem with my gear setup)

4) Lightning capacitor damage does not seem to get hit with the 6% resist every other spell gets. Since the other procs affect our spells directly, this might favor the lightning capacitor some more depending on how that damage is calculated. Probably not as much of an issue though.

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Old 06/09/08, 10:48 AM   #1583
Melador
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
1) Moonfire crit rate is 4% too high as the crit rate is 10% over base crit and not 10% over starfire crit. If you look at the results, you can see its always 10% higher. (Helps lit cap a bit)
Moonfire crit rate looks good to me. Base + 4 (focused starlight) + 10 (imp moonfire) + 5 (moonkin form) + a little if you have Idol of the Raven Goddess.

4) Lightning capacitor damage does not seem to get hit with the 6% resist every other spell gets. Since the other procs affect our spells directly, this might favor the lightning capacitor some more depending on how that damage is calculated. Probably not as much of an issue though.
Yeah that's true -- is it possible for that trinket to partially resist? I didn't think it could so currently it just has the base 1% binary resist rate (assuming you're hit capped). If it can, that's an easy fix.

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Old 06/09/08, 10:53 AM   #1584
 Adoriele
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Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Melador View Post
Moonfire crit rate looks good to me. Base + 4 (focused starlight) + 10 (imp moonfire) + 5 (moonkin form) + a little if you have Idol of the Raven Goddess.


Yeah that's true -- is it possible for that trinket to partially resist? I didn't think it could so currently it just has the base 1% binary resist rate (assuming you're hit capped). If it can, that's an easy fix.
Focused Starlight does not affect Moonfire.

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Old 06/09/08, 11:43 AM   #1585
Melador
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Mal'Ganis
Oops, right you are. I'll fix that too.

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Old 06/09/08, 8:17 PM   #1586
Axanor
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Area 52
I'm currently at 1595 +dmg full raidbuffed/wrathstacked, and just picked up the T6 pants/legs a week and a half ago. I'm about to regem for +haste, since I only have 68 right now, and can easily get much more than that. I know that above 1110 or so, you want dmg to equal haste. However, I was trying to figure out how much of a gap there would need to be for a +10 haste gem to outweigh a +5haste/+6 damage gem, assuming the socket bonus is irrelevant.

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Old 06/09/08, 9:04 PM   #1587
 Adoriele
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Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Axanor View Post
I'm currently at 1595 +dmg full raidbuffed/wrathstacked, and just picked up the T6 pants/legs a week and a half ago. I'm about to regem for +haste, since I only have 68 right now, and can easily get much more than that. I know that above 1110 or so, you want dmg to equal haste. However, I was trying to figure out how much of a gap there would need to be for a +10 haste gem to outweigh a +5haste/+6 damage gem, assuming the socket bonus is irrelevant.
It's the same thing. You're trading 1.2 spell damage for 1 haste in either case. If you want to be exact, it's actually 6 damage before, or 1386, but it's about the same either way.

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Old 06/09/08, 10:16 PM   #1588
Axanor
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Oh, ok, I was trying to figure out if there was ever a point where 1 Haste = 1.2 Damage in terms of DPS increase

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Old 06/09/08, 10:20 PM   #1589
 Adoriele
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Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Axanor View Post
Oh, ok, I was trying to figure out if there was ever a point where 1 Haste = 1.2 Danage
Aye, it's 1392 +damage (doesn't depend on other stats, only valid for starfire spam, discounting procs, yada yada yada). Since you also get an extra 6 damage on the orange gem, it counts towards the 1392, giving 1386.

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Old 06/10/08, 12:49 PM   #1590
Soultrigger
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Warsong
Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
Aye, it's 1392 +damage (doesn't depend on other stats, only valid for starfire spam, discounting procs, yada yada yada). Since you also get an extra 6 damage on the orange gem, it counts towards the 1392, giving 1386.
So you are saying if I have 15 Reckless Pyrestones = 90 spell damage and 75 haste - that means I can get 1392 - 90 = 1302 spell dmg as the base cap for spell dmg 1:1.2 haste rating?

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