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Old 07/31/08, 12:10 PM   #1771
 Adoriele
Happy October 19th!
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Angelfire View Post
OK, reading your comments here makes me think I'm way off on enchants, gear and gem selection...
What should be my priorities?
The way I do it now, is Speel Damage -> Crit (after I'm hit capped of course), with a side of Int and Stam where possible. That's why I gemmed the way I did, and that's why I don't have any haste rating, nor the Fetish of the Primal Gods. You're now saying I should change direction, abandon Crit and go for Haste instead? And what would you recommend for a Meta helm? And what would be an optimal +dmg/Crit/Haste rating for my level (Late SSC/TK)?
And what about trinkets? I have pretty much all relevant trinkets I think (other than the ZA one), which are the best do u think?
Rawr will answer your trinket question for your specific gearing, but you're likely going to want [Icon of the Silver Crescent] as one of them, and probably [Quagmirran's Eye], maybe a [Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor]. For a stat preference, it's Hit -> Spell damage -> Haste, with Haste and Damage being equal after 1400 damage buffed. Crit is, in most cases, about half as good as either. For a Meta helm, [Antlers of Malorne] is actually pretty decent (it's better than the [Mask of Primal Power] when you include the Meta), [Nordrassil Headpiece] if you can get it.

Edit: To go along with Erragal, the Fetish is where I'll be dropping my next set of badges. It's just plain better than anything pre-[Chronicle of Dark Secrets], and can probably give it a money run depending on gearing because of the Haste and the lack of Hit.

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Old 07/31/08, 12:41 PM   #1772
Angelfire
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
/bow
/thank

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Old 07/31/08, 5:29 PM   #1773
Feathorne
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
Rawr will answer your trinket question for your specific gearing, but you're likely going to want [Icon of the Silver Crescent] as one of them, and probably [Quagmirran's Eye], maybe a [Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor]. For a stat preference, it's Hit -> Spell damage -> Haste, with Haste and Damage being equal after 1400 damage buffed. Crit is, in most cases, about half as good as either. For a Meta helm, [Antlers of Malorne] is actually pretty decent (it's better than the [Mask of Primal Power] when you include the Meta), [Nordrassil Headpiece] if you can get it.
Based on my calculations with the DPS spreadsheet, I am seeing that [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] as being a big increaser of DPS when used in high Starfire spell rotation. If you have a good ZA team then shoot for Hex Lord and grab the [Hex Shrunken Head].



Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
To go along with Erragal, the Fetish is where I'll be dropping my next set of badges. It's just plain better than anything pre-[Chronicle of Dark Secrets], and can probably give it a money run depending on gearing because of the Haste and the lack of Hit.
If you don't need the haste [Blind-Seers Icon] is a good choice for an off hand and has a much higher drop rate. But as you mentioned [Chronicle of Dark Secrets] is by far a better choice once the line shortens for your chance to get it...yes Locks and Mages usually jump to the front.

Last edited by Feathorne : 07/31/08 at 5:35 PM.

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Old 08/01/08, 3:39 PM   #1774
Öwlcapwn
Banned
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korialstrasz
Originally Posted by Efejel View Post
Go to this post (the link takes you to a specific post on pg 66, but the text makes me look like I'm being a smartass--I'm not!): http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t11582-d...66/#post796650

Make sure you're signed in, and you should be able to directly download from EJ. If I ever get MS Office working again an update may follow which will also be added to EJ after it's been up on FileFront for a day or two.
The spread sheet is missing the Cowl of the Illiari High Lord as well as the helm off Kil'jaeden. First thing I noticed, not sure why all the items are not in the database. I do ont have a full version of MS Office atm so I cant add it myself, looks like i need office

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Old 08/02/08, 2:54 AM   #1775
Celdhyrean
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Archimonde (EU)
It's there, only under "Crown of the ...". There are a few small mistakes like that that have been listed already i think.

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Old 08/02/08, 6:41 AM   #1776
Janne12
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Stormreaver (EU)
Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
All of the calculations for spell damage, haste, crit, hit, etc. assume you have no mana issues. If you do, mana regen trumps everything. It does not, however, change their relationship substantially. Yes, there is the possibility that gemming a 12 damage gem means you don't go OOM while a haste/damage gem means you do, but that's such a narrow line to ride that I'd suggest you still need to work out your mana issues.
Yes I do know I need to improve it, but how? I mean when (if I ever get one) I have shadowpriest, I got no manaproblems at all - But it all goes to hell when I'm put with 4 warlocks and me, sure I boost theyr dps a bit, but... What about me? QQ I wanna do some sick dps too

I guess using mana food instead of spell dmg could work?

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Old 08/02/08, 12:26 PM   #1777
 Adoriele
Happy October 19th!
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Janne12 View Post
Yes I do know I need to improve it, but how? I mean when (if I ever get one) I have shadowpriest, I got no manaproblems at all - But it all goes to hell when I'm put with 4 warlocks and me, sure I boost theyr dps a bit, but... What about me? QQ I wanna do some sick dps too

I guess using mana food instead of spell dmg could work?
Looking at your armory, I'm seeing that you're quite a bit better off gear-wise that I am, so most of my usual questions won't apply. You've got about 11 less in-combat MP5 (unbuffed) than I do, and with 260 haste compared to my 24, you're casting about 15% faster, which means you're spending about 15% more mana on average. With 336 mana per SF, that's about 50 extra mana you're spending every 3s, or 83 MP5, so in effect you have almost 100 less MP5 than I do.

For comparison, without any outside mana sources on a pure tank&spank (Vashj phase 1), I use almost exactly half a mana bar in 1:30, which I'll extrapolate to going OOM in 5 min with chain potting an innervate, so I'm not surprised you're having problems. Try adding a last point into Dreamstate (Subtlety is the likeliest place to pull it from), it'll give you another 15 MP5 unbuffed. Switching to Mana food is an idea, as is switching to mana oil (the SWP oil would be good, too). You might also try switching from a flask to using Adept's/Draenic. Other than that, you're going to either need to be better potting and innervating if it's possible, or you'll need to convince your RL that the drop in personal DPS is too much if you don't get a Spriest.

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Old 08/03/08, 3:23 PM   #1778
Velillen
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostwolf
I have ran into a problem and I have come here seeking help. My druid has been resto since preBC and up till recently i raided as resto. However i took a break and came back to WoW to a sunwell guild as a moonkin. I have pretty good gear so far with 4/8 T6 and a few other t6 level items but i know some items are lacking. What i have come for is help with gemming.

Backstory
When i was picking up moonkin offspec item i just gemmed the +4 crit/+5 spell damage gems since it as really before haste became a big thing. This was preZA if i remember correctly.

The guild i am in now is 5/6 Sunwell and i know that in a short time i will be getting the bracers, belt, and boots at a minimum. And that has really left me at a cross roads on what to gem for.

Basically the gems i am trying to decide between are
+5 crit/+6 spell damage
+12 spell damage
+5 haste +6 spell damage
+10 haste

I have pretty much ruled out the pure +12 spell damage as crit or haste seems to give a better boost according to the spread sheet.

Now it comes down to how good will haste be for me at this level? if i go with the +5 haste and +6 spell damage i can get around 100 haste which according to the spreadsheet is about a 50 point dps loss compared to +5 crit +6 spell damage. Going with pure +10 haste gems is by far the worst according to the spread sheet with almost a 100 point dps loss. However i am knowing that i will be getting more upgrades in the future and am trying to gem in advance for them instead of having to regem completely.

Doing some research it appears that around 200 haste is where you start really benefiting from the haste. and once i get new weapons and off hands that will bring me closer to that mark.

Basically i am confused and lost as to how i should really gem my gear. I know locks and mages all want +5 haste +6 spell damage but are moonkins the same? or would pure +10 haste really be where it is at?

Any advice would be great and just in case here is my armory link.
The World of Warcraft Armory

also any names of good geared moonkins would be great. i have tried to find some through this thread but either missed them or just couldn't find any really in sunwell gear.

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Old 08/04/08, 3:08 AM   #1779
Aneldarr
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Vashj (EU)
If im not remembering this all wrong you get more dps out of a haste-dmg gem than a crit-dmg at 1077 (or 1070) spelldmg. At 13xx your increase is bigger with pure haste gems. All this can be read earlier in this thread (just cant find it atm). Madrox was an imba moonkin before my break, think he played in the US somewhere.

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Old 08/04/08, 8:34 AM   #1780
Velillen
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostwolf
I knew about madrox but he does not seem to be playing anymore. Or more he does not seem to have gone for haste really at all.

I did try looking through the thread but after 20 pages or so it gets a little boring. I did find and use the Stat Calc spreadsheet posted earlier and it showed in my gear that haste was the better choice but not by that much. (like a .2 difference which i guess i rather large come to think of it) I did decide to go ahead with the 5 haste 6 damage gems as it seemed to work the best for still being viable dps and planning for the future. Though if someone straight up tells me to go 10 haste gems now i probably would consider it as i get new gear.

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Old 08/04/08, 10:54 AM   #1781
Amanojaku
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Muradin
My toon is Aoinoteki, and her wowarmory profile is:

The World of Warcraft Armory

Now, I'm spell hit capped with 1256 spell damage, 20.29 spell crit in moonkin form and points in all appropriate places in the balance tree. Be.imba says my toon is in top shape. Yet I consistently do only between 800-900 dps. For instance, a recent Mt. Hyjal outing:

WWS Loading...

Now, I can talk about how I lost dps because I died or had to battle rez someone, but the numbers on that report are typical, whether or not I die or brez. I'm usually in the top 10 but not top 5, and my other guildies have pretty much the same level of gear I have. My spreadsheet skills, alas, are nonexistent, but even so I think 800-900 dps is extremely low for me. What do you think? How much should someone with my stats do in terms of dps?

On a related topic, I had been playing with spell haste, but since I consistently ran into mana problems I have started to stack crit instead (sometimes I use the sextant of unstable currents instead of the icon). I do have t5 legs and shoulders which I got for the mana regen but I'm not sure how much that would help, except at the most I can change the crit gem on my belt. My spell haste would still be around 50 so I doubt that makes a difference.

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Old 08/04/08, 11:02 AM   #1782
Axanor
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Area 52
Velilen, easy things for you to do to up your gear-

A) Get the Fetish of Primal Gods from the Badge Vendor. There's really no reason to be using Karaborian Talismman.
B) Get the Guardian's Pendant of Subjugation and throw a Haste/Dam or pure Haste gem in there (I went with pure Haste.)
C) The Badge +hit ring is better than the Violet Signet (And of course, Mana Attuned/Loop of Forged Power are even better.)
D) If you regem your boots, it's probably worth it to match the colors, going with Yellow/Purple or Orange/Purple.

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Old 08/04/08, 12:54 PM   #1783
 Adoriele
Happy October 19th!
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Amanojaku View Post
My toon is Aoinoteki, and her wowarmory profile is:

The World of Warcraft Armory

Now, I'm spell hit capped with 1256 spell damage, 20.29 spell crit in moonkin form and points in all appropriate places in the balance tree. Be.imba says my toon is in top shape. Yet I consistently do only between 800-900 dps. For instance, a recent Mt. Hyjal outing:

WWS Loading...

Now, I can talk about how I lost dps because I died or had to battle rez someone, but the numbers on that report are typical, whether or not I die or brez. I'm usually in the top 10 but not top 5, and my other guildies have pretty much the same level of gear I have. My spreadsheet skills, alas, are nonexistent, but even so I think 800-900 dps is extremely low for me. What do you think? How much should someone with my stats do in terms of dps?

On a related topic, I had been playing with spell haste, but since I consistently ran into mana problems I have started to stack crit instead (sometimes I use the sextant of unstable currents instead of the icon). I do have t5 legs and shoulders which I got for the mana regen but I'm not sure how much that would help, except at the most I can change the crit gem on my belt. My spell haste would still be around 50 so I doubt that makes a difference.
The first thing I notice when looking at your WWS is that you're chaining Wrath instead of Starfire. This is bad, stop doing it. I'm not kidding. Your locks are putting up CoE, you get MUCH more benefit by using Starfire instead of Wrath, and your mana issues will decrease as well.

Second: On your Rage kill, you spend only 4:13 out of 8:03 casting. And you didn't die. Even if you cast Rebirth, there's no excuse for only DPSing for HALF of the fight. On Anetheron, you spend 2:58 out of 8:20. That's 37% of the fight! What on earth are you doing that causes you to spend more time doing NOTHING than casting. In fact, you're spending almost twice as much time doing nothing than you are doing your job. There's absolutely no excuse for that.

Third: if you're not going to gem for haste because of your mana issues (which should be solved by using Starfire instead of Wrath), at least gem for straight up damage. Crit is worth half of what spell damage is worth unless you have a crit-based trinket, and even then it doesn't approach being 1:1. You're only shooting yourself in the foot by gemming for crit.

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Old 08/04/08, 2:35 PM   #1784
Kaug
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silver Hand
Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
The first thing I notice when looking at your WWS is that you're chaining Wrath instead of Starfire. This is bad, stop doing it. I'm not kidding. Your locks are putting up CoE, you get MUCH more benefit by using Starfire instead of Wrath, and your mana issues will decrease as well.

Second: On your Rage kill, you spend only 4:13 out of 8:03 casting. And you didn't die. Even if you cast Rebirth, there's no excuse for only DPSing for HALF of the fight. On Anetheron, you spend 2:58 out of 8:20. That's 37% of the fight! What on earth are you doing that causes you to spend more time doing NOTHING than casting. In fact, you're spending almost twice as much time doing nothing than you are doing your job. There's absolutely no excuse for that.

Third: if you're not going to gem for haste because of your mana issues (which should be solved by using Starfire instead of Wrath), at least gem for straight up damage. Crit is worth half of what spell damage is worth unless you have a crit-based trinket, and even then it doesn't approach being 1:1. You're only shooting yourself in the foot by gemming for crit.
Like he said, SF >> Wrath. It is much more mana efficient and better dps with COE up. That must be the reason you are mana deprived even though you are 3/3 dreamstate and 3/3 intensity. I assume you are using your own innervate. Anyway if your are short on mana, spell dam gems are best with spell/crit ones for your yellow slots where the socket bonus is worth it.
Your dps time does seem low, usually DOTs ticking should keep you in the mid-high 90's even while dodging things like Rage's D&D
Also do you need 5/5 subtlety? You can probably get away with take 2-3 from it and 1-2 from Dreamstate and get iFF? For more raid synergy and the increased tank aggro from less misses helps balance the loss of subtlety.
Lastly, argue for a Spriest (one way to get one is to offer to take iFF in exchange for a SPriest) and\or an Ele shammy (even a reg shammy's Wrath of air, mana and heroism are large dps buffs). Both will give you more mana + DPS and a ele shammy would also let you swap out some +hit gear

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Old 08/04/08, 3:37 PM   #1785
Amanojaku
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Muradin
Ok, thanks for the input. I will probably return to regemming for haste/crit.

My guild's raid group has pretty much been set in stone by the officers. Even if it wasn't, we usually don't have an (active) spriest, and our (active) shammies seem to prefer either resto or enhancement. The one elemental shaman we had decided he wanted to go back to enhancement. Instead, all or most of the raid mages are put in my group, plus a resto shammy, the argument being the raid benefits the most with as many mages as possible getting moonkin aura, as we usually have only two locks who are put in the tank groups.

As for the rest, I am now guessing my biggest problem is the mobility issue. For instance, I actually used to chain-cast SF but for some reason it made my dps go down even more. Now I suspect it's the case because the longer cast time of SF made it harder for me cast while running around. Not really sure how to address this apart from changing my boot enchant. Or maybe it's practice, or key bindings. hmmm

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