See tired.
Yeah, im at 29.8% starfire now. Additional t6 gear, and nonset gear will give a good 34-35% crit before the t6 4pc.

Thats the brillance of hte t5 bonus. It adds to IS's usefullness in our spell rotation.
problem is, its not a perminant solution, and the t5 bonus is way overpowered.

The smart solution is of course, a 10% nature damage "curse of nature", likely improved FF.... But tahts been suggested a million times and never done.

Thanks for the update, Efejel. The flask seems fine now.

I've tried Force of Nature a while ago, but found it too situational. The treants can do 8k - 9k damage per cast if allowed to live the full 30 seconds. It's excellent damage in heroic instances! In raids there are so many things that can kill them, it's hard to time well. Also I've found the treants to be a bit shy when it comes to start attacking the next mob if it was crowd controlled. You literally have to walk them to the enemy sometimes, which is bad for personal dps.

I miss my treants though May consider switching a point from Subtlety. If I do, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Theres no avoidance cap in the game. There is some -boss dmg cap you can do with debuffs or smth, didnt really keep that much track of it, but there are some threads somewhere on these boards about that topic. I doubt anyone tested if IS counts for one or the other, which would make it slightly useful/not useful at all.

I use IS mostly in fights where there is heavy tank dmg. Otherwise i have to agree that t6 just shifts the cycle to MF/xSF depending on NG procs.

I found treants in heroics to be awesome for "offtanking" some add, meaning they die in 3 hits but they still delay the add going for the healer right away. In raids their dmg is close to nothing, just still better than putting them into Brambles or Control of Nature.
Overall i have to jump on the bandwagon that the whole talent tree can use a serious upgrade, but with BT/hyjal gear i actually am able to compete with other casters. Ill link some WWS soon.

Played around with the new sheets custom cycle btw, i get the highest values for a 1 MF/1 SF cycle. Around 130 dps above anything else in my gear. I guess thats the most abusive NG proc cycle? MF then SF till it stops to crit, then MF again. Mana consumption is extreme tho ofc

The 2% for the target to miss from IS stacks with the Hunter sting and normal tank avoidance, I don't recall any cap on avoidance.

For modeling treant dps, I would ballpark it at 3,000 damage every 3 minutes with a 1.5 second cast time.

NG is a flat 0.5 second off, so 2.41.

Ive gotten lasy with wws. So I cant link a report for treant damage atm.

But, 11% per tree from +damage, on top of base damage, which was like 170/hit.
16% miss rate per tree.
Does not seem to scale with spell crit.


Assuming they survive, my treants do an average 6-7k each cast, with me having 99% hit with spells, 20% all spell crit, without moonkin, and 1179 damage unbuffed, 1291 normal raid buffs. (no oil)
My hit rate doesnt seem to effect them. Nor spell crit. I tested in beta, and I dont think temporay spell buffs, i.e. trinkets, effect the damage.

Treants, the Shadowfiend and Warlock melee pets get similar benefits.

A lock pet gets 57% of +damage as AP, so since there are three trees around 19% should be added to each, totaling 57%. Temp +damage from clickable trinkets will add more AP as well. I will try to check this later to make sure, the devs could have customized each classes's pet.

Normal pet miss rate on 70s is 11%, so 15.6% on bosses should be the normalized number (I lost my WWS when I was Demonology, since the free uploads only last so long).

Stamina added is 30% of master's stamina.


Spell hit, crit, haste and attack power buffs on the master will give zero benefit to pets.

Sunder armor and improved faerie fire will help them though.

^Correct! I may try & outsmart this before I push the next revision. (More IF logic....... yay.)

0.70d? Should be fixed.

Oh ya had 2 copies of it, nevermind .

Yeah, 16% was the number Ive gotten as average from wws. 15.6 is likely the number underneath.

I tested out trinkets, and they do seem to work. I could have sworn they didnt.. So, poping trinkets before trees would be a good idea.
Perhaps it was flasks that I was mis-remembering?

I am still pretty sure the scaling value is 30-33% however.
Testing again.
level 5 defiance cutpurses.
101 damage with just lunar guidance
150-180 average damage.

lv5 defiace cutpurses.
1174 damage.
250-300 average damage

lv5 deficane cutpures
1327 damage. (trinket)
270-320 average.


155 damage trinket gave about 20 damage per hit. 13%

100-120 damage from the 1073 damage from gear. 11%


19% vs 11% would be pretty noticable. Im pretty certain it is not that high.

Looking at your numbers, we are using different types of numbers. You are giving the average hit, I was referring to attack power (which makes things hit harder).


Converting your numbers to things more understandable:

Attempt one 82.5 dps

adding 1073 spell damage which should add 57% as AP getting 612 to each tree, which would be 44 dps
Attempt two 137.5 dps, which is 55 dps more. 72% of +damage as AP fits this.

adding 153 spell damage adding 88 AP to each tree, which would be 6.3 dps:
Attempt three 147.5 dps, which is 10 dps more, 91% of +damage as AP would fit this.

So need more samples, but this at least shows druid treants scale at least as good as Warlock pets.