 |
07/26/07, 12:29 AM
|
#166
|
|
Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Skullcrusher
|
Originally Posted by Efejel
Only 1% more crit on MF than SF after you have 4pc T6.
|
See tired.
Yeah, im at 29.8% starfire now. Additional t6 gear, and nonset gear will give a good 34-35% crit before the t6 4pc.
|
I just was seeing the DPS loss of IS & was a bit surprised. I know, maybe Blizzard will see that we have one less thing to add to raids & add a 21-25 pt. talent to double IS's damage & triple it's avoidance value to tanks--of course, they'll put the talent in Resto!
|
Thats the brillance of hte t5 bonus. It adds to IS's usefullness in our spell rotation.
problem is, its not a perminant solution, and the t5 bonus is way overpowered.
The smart solution is of course, a 10% nature damage "curse of nature", likely improved FF.... But tahts been suggested a million times and never done.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 12:40 AM
|
#167
|
|
Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
|
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Also, where is the Force of Nature dps? Anything would be nice to see, even a gray box to show it is coming.
|
This hardly seems worth doing. I may add a "Force of Nature: Yes/No" that will count them as say... 2000 dmg every 3 min? 3000 dmg? If anyone has solid numbers on expected/avg/max damage contributions from Treants, let me know.
If I do do this, (heh, I said doodoo) I'll probably also finally calculate the cast time vs. DPS penalty for FoN AND B-Rez.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 4:51 AM
|
#168
|
|
Piston Honda
Worgen Mage
The Sha'tar (EU)
|
Thanks for the update, Efejel. The flask seems fine now.
I've tried Force of Nature a while ago, but found it too situational. The treants can do 8k - 9k damage per cast if allowed to live the full 30 seconds. It's excellent damage in heroic instances! In raids there are so many things that can kill them, it's hard to time well. Also I've found the treants to be a bit shy when it comes to start attacking the next mob if it was crowd controlled. You literally have to walk them to the enemy sometimes, which is bad for personal dps.
I miss my treants though  May consider switching a point from Subtlety. If I do, I'll let you know how it turns out.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 6:38 AM
|
#169
|
|
Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Dentarg (EU)
|
Theres no avoidance cap in the game. There is some -boss dmg cap you can do with debuffs or smth, didnt really keep that much track of it, but there are some threads somewhere on these boards about that topic. I doubt anyone tested if IS counts for one or the other, which would make it slightly useful/not useful at all.
I use IS mostly in fights where there is heavy tank dmg. Otherwise i have to agree that t6 just shifts the cycle to MF/xSF depending on NG procs.
I found treants in heroics to be awesome for "offtanking" some add, meaning they die in 3 hits but they still delay the add going for the healer right away. In raids their dmg is close to nothing, just still better than putting them into Brambles or Control of Nature.
Overall i have to jump on the bandwagon that the whole talent tree can use a serious upgrade, but with BT/hyjal gear i actually am able to compete with other casters. Ill link some WWS soon.
Played around with the new sheets custom cycle btw, i get the highest values for a 1 MF/1 SF cycle. Around 130 dps above anything else in my gear. I guess thats the most abusive NG proc cycle? MF then SF till it stops to crit, then MF again. Mana consumption is extreme tho ofc 
Last edited by Benita : 07/26/07 at 6:48 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 9:46 AM
|
#170
|
|
Protector
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
No WoW Account
|
The 2% for the target to miss from IS stacks with the Hunter sting and normal tank avoidance, I don't recall any cap on avoidance.
For modeling treant dps, I would ballpark it at 3,000 damage every 3 minutes with a 1.5 second cast time.
|
And, in case I do decide to implement spell haste: if you are hasted to 2.91 sec SF & proc NG, do you get a 2.41 sec SF, or a (2.91/3)*2.5 = 2.425 sec SF?
|
NG is a flat 0.5 second off, so 2.41.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 11:42 AM
|
#171
|
|
Moof.
Lorewanderer
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account
|
Adding another voice to the thanks for the spreadsheet.
The actual content of the post though:
It looks like as of .70d the mp5 approximation from the Insightful Earthstorm meta isn't being added anywhere.
Also, a simple feature request, if you don't mind: Somewhere on the various sheets (Gear Select and Talents both, ideally) have a the max of the "average DPS" column show up somewhere to make gear/spec comparisons not involve quite so many swaps between sheets.
To Benita: I'm not sure, but I think the spreadsheet is assuming you'll let moonfire go its entire duration, so you'd probably lose whatever edge over a non-moonspam cycle from the loss of DoT damage.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 12:16 PM
|
#172
|
|
Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Skullcrusher
|
Ive gotten lasy with wws. So I cant link a report for treant damage atm.
But, 11% per tree from +damage, on top of base damage, which was like 170/hit.
16% miss rate per tree.
Does not seem to scale with spell crit.
Assuming they survive, my treants do an average 6-7k each cast, with me having 99% hit with spells, 20% all spell crit, without moonkin, and 1179 damage unbuffed, 1291 normal raid buffs. (no oil)
My hit rate doesnt seem to effect them. Nor spell crit. I tested in beta, and I dont think temporay spell buffs, i.e. trinkets, effect the damage.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 12:28 PM
|
#173
|
|
Protector
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
No WoW Account
|
Treants, the Shadowfiend and Warlock melee pets get similar benefits.
A lock pet gets 57% of +damage as AP, so since there are three trees around 19% should be added to each, totaling 57%. Temp +damage from clickable trinkets will add more AP as well. I will try to check this later to make sure, the devs could have customized each classes's pet.
Normal pet miss rate on 70s is 11%, so 15.6% on bosses should be the normalized number (I lost my WWS when I was Demonology, since the free uploads only last so long).
Stamina added is 30% of master's stamina.
Spell hit, crit, haste and attack power buffs on the master will give zero benefit to pets.
Sunder armor and improved faerie fire will help them though.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 12:38 PM
|
#174
|
|
Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
|
Originally Posted by Lorewanderer
To Benita: I'm not sure, but I think the spreadsheet is assuming you'll let moonfire go its entire duration, so you'd probably lose whatever edge over a non-moonspam cycle from the loss of DoT damage.
|
^Correct! I may try & outsmart this before I push the next revision. (More IF logic....... yay.)
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 1:20 PM
|
#175
|
|
Glass Joe
|
Velvet boots of the guardian seem to cause the whole spreadsheet to blow up.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 1:37 PM
|
#176
|
|
Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
|
Originally Posted by dogdmw
Velvet boots of the guardian seem to cause the whole spreadsheet to blow up.
|
0.70d? Should be fixed.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 1:45 PM
|
#177
|
|
Glass Joe
|
Originally Posted by Efejel
0.70d? Should be fixed.
|
Oh ya had 2 copies of it, nevermind  .
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 5:06 PM
|
#178
|
|
Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Skullcrusher
|
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Treants, the Shadowfiend and Warlock melee pets get similar benefits.
A lock pet gets 57% of +damage as AP, so since there are three trees around 19% should be added to each, totaling 57%. Temp +damage from clickable trinkets will add more AP as well. I will try to check this later to make sure, the devs could have customized each classes's pet.
Normal pet miss rate on 70s is 11%, so 15.6% on bosses should be the normalized number (I lost my WWS when I was Demonology, since the free uploads only last so long).
Stamina added is 30% of master's stamina.
Spell hit, crit, haste and attack power buffs on the master will give zero benefit to pets.
Sunder armor and improved faerie fire will help them though.
|
Yeah, 16% was the number Ive gotten as average from wws. 15.6 is likely the number underneath.
I tested out trinkets, and they do seem to work. I could have sworn they didnt.. So, poping trinkets before trees would be a good idea.
Perhaps it was flasks that I was mis-remembering?
I am still pretty sure the scaling value is 30-33% however.
Testing again.
level 5 defiance cutpurses.
101 damage with just lunar guidance
150-180 average damage.
lv5 defiace cutpurses.
1174 damage.
250-300 average damage
lv5 deficane cutpures
1327 damage. (trinket)
270-320 average.
155 damage trinket gave about 20 damage per hit. 13%
100-120 damage from the 1073 damage from gear. 11%
19% vs 11% would be pretty noticable. Im pretty certain it is not that high.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 5:09 PM
|
#179
|
|
Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
|
Originally Posted by Lorewanderer
The actual content of the post though:
It looks like as of .70d the mp5 approximation from the Insightful Earthstorm meta isn't being added anywhere.
|
It should be included in the "Misc Mana Restore" section.
|
Also, a simple feature request, if you don't mind: Somewhere on the various sheets (Gear Select and Talents both, ideally) have a the max of the "average DPS" column show up somewhere to make gear/spec comparisons not involve quite so many swaps between sheets.
|
That's a good idea! Done.
|
To Benita: I'm not sure, but I think the spreadsheet is assuming you'll let moonfire go its entire duration, so you'd probably lose whatever edge over a non-moonspam cycle from the loss of DoT damage.
|
Didn't get around to fixing this. Maybe if/when I finish adding FoN support. (Which will be v0.71.)
v0.70 e
The top DPS cycle is now listed on the Gear Select & Talent sheets, to make comparing much quicker.
Some reorganization & cosmetic changes.
Elixirs are not included in calculations if a flask is selected.
Placeholder added for Force of Nature damage estimates. Anyone who wants to implement it before me, feel free.
Last edited by Efejel : 07/26/07 at 5:16 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
07/26/07, 5:27 PM
|
#180
|
|
Protector
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
No WoW Account
|
Originally Posted by Caliane
155 damage trinket gave about 20 damage per hit. 13%
100-120 damage from the 1073 damage from gear. 11%
19% vs 11% would be pretty noticable. Im pretty certain it is not that high.
|
Looking at your numbers, we are using different types of numbers. You are giving the average hit, I was referring to attack power (which makes things hit harder).
Converting your numbers to things more understandable:
Attempt one 82.5 dps
adding 1073 spell damage which should add 57% as AP getting 612 to each tree, which would be 44 dps
Attempt two 137.5 dps, which is 55 dps more. 72% of +damage as AP fits this.
adding 153 spell damage adding 88 AP to each tree, which would be 6.3 dps:
Attempt three 147.5 dps, which is 10 dps more, 91% of +damage as AP would fit this.
So need more samples, but this at least shows druid treants scale at least as good as Warlock pets.
Last edited by frmorrison : 07/26/07 at 6:42 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|