Nerfy

Well just from looking at it your doing wrath 44% of the time. I know that I used to use it on the trash because I was lazy and liked the short cast time but theres only like 5 or 6 trash pulls in there so as far as I can tell your doing too much wrath. Try using the dmg caculator in the first post in this thread...it will give you some of the best possible DPS cycles based on your gear and will take out a lot of your confusion. I had a lot less +dmg and +hit then you when I was still doing gruul's and I was still able to do at least 700ish dps back then...with and w/o a shadow priest.

 

Dexter

Well, if you were to look at the individual boss fights, the bulk of my wrath casts came from trash and Maulgar (Kiggler tanking).

My main concerns come on Gruul himself. Granted there is a good bit of downtime due to reverbs, and the ground slam/shatter periods, but from looking at other peoples WWS posts and seeing their gear, and also from the numbers the spreadsheet gives me I just feel like I'm doing something wrong as my DPS output doesn't compare to the ballpark the spreadsheet/WWS parses say I should be in.

Again, thanks for the input! =)

 

Spink

Hi Efejel,

I've recently been testing using Improved Faerie Fire over Intensity but would like to be able to see how it effects my dps on the spreadsheet.

I've been looking through the spreadsheet and found that there is data on Faerie Fire in there but I can't work out how to add an additional set of cast cycles that include Faerie Fire in order to evaluate the kind of cast cycle I'd be wanting to use with a 145 mana 0 damage GCD every ~40 seconds or if there'd be some way to simulate it's use by boosting my latency artificially?

 

tecate

Ive been a moonkin for awhile now, and i love it to death.

I was wanting you guys to check our raid WWS and let me know how im doin.

I only have 1/2 BoP, and 3/5 Sub, so i could get Imp FF.

Lurker Kill (My best looking one heh)

Loading...

Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kael'thas&n=Danelle
Thanks in advanced.

We normally run a thunderchicken, manabattery and 3 fireball slingers as our kill grp.

 

Benita

From your WWS it seems that in average your casts deal this much damage.

Starfire: 2.4k
Insect Swarm: 1.2k
Moonfire: 2.1k

Now Starfire is of course not a 1.5sec cast, so its about at the IS level, a bit higher due to Natures Grace.
You dont nearly do enough Moonfire, given that you dont have mana problems (no pot used, not even the apexis shard stuff). Moonfire is not only almost twice as much damage as IS, it also triggers Natures Grace with +10% crit due to the talent which is not in the average damage i posted there. Overall it is the highest dps cast for Druids.
You used 1 Force of Nature, while 3 wouldve been possible in that fight, tho granted that is not the most friendly fight for melee adds with only a few hp.
An encounter specific thing on Gruul would be to renew Moonfire and Insect Swarm after the Ground Slam. You got time enough to trigger Barkskin and strafe to a spot while renewing dots. The NG proc of that Moonfire isnt even wasted as it holds for 15sec, which should be enough time to get a Starfire in after the Shatter.

 

Benita

That sounds wrong. You run with 136 hit rating, 1/2 BoP and some of your Noble Topaz are Potent and not Veiled. Hit>everything else until you reach 151 with 2/2 BoP.

Also if you usually have a spriest then rather drop Intensity for Imp FF, you can always make up for the lost mp5 with using more pots. If you dont have any threat problems due to very good tanks or low damage, rather drop 3 in Subtlety than anything in BoP, dropping both seems contraproductive unless you are playing on the limit 24/7 as it is or have good extra spellhit gear banked.

 

Dexter

Thanks for the feedback! I generally do try to throw IS/MF on before I scurry to a spot for ground slam/shatter, but will definitely be more proactive in trying to keep MF up the whole fight. I've just gotten so used to IS, SFx4 rotation that I forget to throw MF on, but will switch to a IS, MF, SFx3 rotation and hopefully that will push my numbers up to where they could/should be.

One more thing - would I be better served dropping Adept's/DWisdom for Flask of Supreme Power?

 

Caliane

Technically, most dps spreadsheets show supreme power edging out adepts/dwisdom. But its pretty close. And the elixers are cheaper, and do give a bit of extra utility in terms of more mana/regen should you need to do resing/healing.
I use the elixers.

Blinding light however next patch. I will probably make the conversion over to.

 

Efejel

If you found what little is in there, you're probably almost as close to implementing it as I am. Sorry, basically just need to treat it as taking 1.5 + latency + (chance to resist * 1.5) seconds per 40 seconds. Assuming that's less than 2 sec, and there aren't "dead spots" in the fight where you can drop it in without costing yourself other casts, then it's somewhere near a 5% DPS drop. (2/40 = 5%)

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

tecate

Alrighty, i took some of your advice.

I am sitting at 147hit now wiht 2/2BoP, i have 5/5 sub still because i still get threat capped in some fights.

I still use 3/3 intensity because our priests are subpar.
Here is our latest Leo kill: Wow Web Stats
Now, am i just paying attn really well, or do our other dps really suck? I should defiantly not top the meters.

Please let me know how it looks now. Thanks

 

Benita

Your spriests sucked because you only brought one warlock btw. And hes running some weird specc, altho i must admit i dont know every viable warlock specc out there.
No Malediction on Curse of Shadows is also lowering your own dps, so go poke your gleader till he brings more warlocks to the raids or recruits more if you dont have them
3 warlocks, 2 mages rather than 1 warlock 4 mages would mean the imp shadowbolt debuff stays up way longer and im guessing it would be as much as 10% more spriest damage if not more in this fight because the only warlock is running around in crit gimped FR gear.

Your hunters i hope are holding back due to MDs, because their damage is way too low. I also searched for Sunder or Expose Armor, theres none. Thats gimping your physical damage dealt considerably and is a major screwup. 3 Faerie Fires in the whole fight says alot aswell.
If you feel altruistic you could apply that, even if its not talented.
In that fight i bet you wouldve seen a raiddps increase in using Imp FF. Your highest dps rogue runs with 20.47% total hit, he would gain full effect on his white damage then, which is 60%. 3% of 60% means with his 700dps an increase of 14dps on one person alone, 3 Talent points well spent.

Your guild needs pDebufflist in my opinion and someone willing to get on the debuff appliers nerves.
2 less mages and 1 less hunter, 1 spriest and 2 warlocks in for that. If you do that you can even run with 7 not 8 healers i bet and increase the total dps further.

Long story short: Yes, your dps is very good for your gearlevel, you could however switch to more raiddps with giving up some of your own. Yes, your other dps sucks more than it needs to, mostly due to debuffs and raid setup. The raid setup i can only tell you whats wrong with it, i wouldnt know how your guild is structured, if changes are possible and so on.

 

Efejel

I no longer have an active account at all, so could use some help confirming what I've gathered from this thread, the official patch notes and MMO-champion.

Pending spreadsheet changes for 2.2:
15.75 spell haste rating = 1% speed (improved from 22 = 1%)
[Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] now correctly only gives 3% addt'l damage on crit, regardless of talents
[Marshal's Silk Cuffs] now have "correct" 12 crit rating in game
Other changes?!?!? - Please let me know

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

darist

Hey. I'm not sure this is exactly the right spot to post this, but as I don't really know too much about Balance druids I was wondering if any of you could help me out. My guild has recently started putting the screws to people in terms of making sure they are PvE specced/geared up for 25 man content. It has paid off for us, as we downed Mag tonight in our first round of attempts since nearly 2 months ago. However, I was disturbed to see that our lowest DPSer was our token Moonkin, clocking in at only 515 DPS.

Here is his WWS and here is his Armory. It looks like to me that he really needs to invest in spell hit, by picking up either some Kara pieces or some blue gear that has a good amount of it, and if he's still not at the cap, regemming for spell hit (he also needs to get Improved Faerie Fire, but that's a different topic). After he's at the hit cap, should he focus on spell crit or spell damage? Also, it looks like he cast a mix of Starfire/Wrath, is there one spell that is clearly better or is there a cast rotation? For clarification, he was in a group with a Shaman dropping WoA and Mana Spring/Mana Tide, and a shadowpriest, so I doubt he was having mana problems.

Thanks in advance for any tips provided.

 

Caliane

Increasing hit should help. One fairly dissapointing thing I have to note with his gear, is hte malorne gloves, legs, bracers of the white stag. While you would think t4 would be a good choice. Unfortunatly, the cloth offset items are much better. Particularly spell strike legs. while helm is at least reasonably comparable. Spellstrike legs however are far far far better then t4 legs. t4 gloves arent very good either. the cloth ones from botanica are better. Flowing thought- maiden, soul-eather-magtheridon, angerspark-doomwalker are all upgrades he should be looking for.
I cant remember exactly what chests are good at that point. Spellfire requires tailoring. "I" used my gladiator chest till I got t4 chest. T4 chest being a very viable item, as opposed to legs/gloves I mentioned earlier.

Spell damage scales much better then spell crit. Getting rid of xi ri's gift for scryer bloodgem(hit), or quagmirrians eye, or any other spell damage trinket would be very good as well.


Spell wise, he should be doing mf/is/sfx3 on magtheridon. Theres no real reason to be using wrath if there is a lock in the raid.

 

Caliane

Cyclone got a new graphic?
And hurricane got a new animation effect as well. The lighting bolts are now targeted on targets in the aoe. E.i. if there is only one target, the bolts will hit that target over and over, like d2 lighting storm.

Oh, and a new mace from hyjal/bt trash.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/n...fjudgement.jpg

You already added the new flask. hmm.
Epic crafted gems. bop gemcrafter only. They are a bit stronger then bt ones.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/n...ly/newgems.jpg

And all tk/ssc weapons were upgraded a bit. I believe only relevant item is tempest key.

 

Benita

Is it just me and my gfx card or does Barkskin not show anymore in Moonkin form? Also the weapon seems to shrink on shifting (as a tauren at least).
Slightly Offtopic, sorry

 

Thermomenes

Intensity is being changed to increase mana regeneration by 30% with 3/3.

If i wanted to model that using the spreadsheet, where can i change the % for that talent?

 

Nerfy

Barkskin still shows but you can't see it from behind really well. Pan your camera to look at your face and you can see it. I also measured my staff using just my fingers on my screen and my staff shrunk on my back. Also that overall my Moonkin seemed to shrink but I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

Efejel

Two places. First, Gear_Select:L5
Second, CS&B:C23
PS-I'm a bit surprised we're seeing 2.3 leaks this early. I checked out the Druid offc'l boards and there's even blue posts confirming/denying some of the rumors. Any chance this is a sign of change for the better, or is it an isolated incident?

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Thermomenes

Thank yah kindly

 

Dothorio

I was wanting a bit of advice from the raiding moonkin out there. I've played my mage to raid for a solid two years and I've recently become more and more obsessed with the thought of raiding on a moonkin. I'm not entirely sure why, but I think it has a lot to do with how clean the balance tree is for a dps caster. With mages there are lots of different directions you can go, but as a raiding moonkin it seems that there is one acceptable spec.

My druid is lvl 39 now and I plan on him reaching 70 eventually (maybe by Christmas?) and beginning to raid on him. I do have a working knowledge of how to play a dps caster and I realize the most important stats for a dps caster (hit rating capped, then damage + crit, finally stats).

I was wondering what you guys thought of this build and if there are any gear and cast rotation tips that you'd be willing to share with me.

J'adore quand un plan se déroule sans accroc

 

Caliane

Actually, as of right now on live.

The gem no longer works at all for spell crits. "We're looking into it."
That would suggest not working at all is not intended. But who knows how long it will be like this.

 

Thermomenes

I came across this post below from one of the mage threads and it made me want to run the same test using Efejel's spreadsheet to see how well druids would perform against the new mage with 10% more damage coefficient to fireball and frostbolt.

Mage post:
So, I set the latency to 0, potted and buffed up (with no shaman buffs), and selected the best gear (full T6 ect), gems, and enchants and set it to a 5 min fight with 250 regen from an S-priest. I also used trees and increased their damage from 6k to 7k since the +spell damage is so high and tree damage scales with our damage by 7% or so. The result?

MFx2, SFx11 = 1704.9 dps. I'm fine with that And it was fun doing the theorycrafting!...But I must confess, I do not know if this is an accurate comparison because the mage did not post if he was using spell food or weapon oils...if he did not, them removing them would change the result to this = 1655.4 dps

P.S.
OH, and Efejel...is there a way you can add the Drums of War, Drums of Battle, and Destruction Potions in the buffs section like you did Drums of Restoration?

 

Caliane

Ill take some time to reveiw the numbers later.

But, a fire mage should now flat out destroy a balance druid in single target dps in 2.3. by 20-35% so.
Something is wrong with the theorycraft there.

An imp scorch, misery, 13% cos, gives fireball something like 1.78spell coeff. Plus higher crit rate, base damage, and more damage from crits, and combustion/moltenfury, compared to SF 1.72 with misery, t5 4pc, and 13% cos.

 

Thermomenes

The mage is not accounting for molten fury as you can read above. Also, I am not using T5 4pc. This is with T6 4pc. Wish i could have seen his spreadsheet. I will try to add mine in if someone can walk me through linking it like Efejel did in the OP.

And even if something changes in the mage spreadsheet used to maximize mage dps even more, it feels like an overestimation to say they would destroy us by 20-35%.