Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 125

bodvarbjarki · 09/02/08, 1:37 PM

30 sec seems like a long time to be threat-limited on Brut. Do you have a feral tank, and if so, is he going first?

I generally start the fight with IFF, drums, MF, then treants and never have to think about threat again.

Moginheden · 09/02/08, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by erragal

Judgement of Wisdom actually puts you within 1000 mana of the total needed to finish the fight. I have not found an effective way to pick up the 70 MP5 you need to finish the fight, that won't result in a huge DPS loss. Spirit Staff switching during innervate is only worth about 1100 mana (I even have a Nightstaff) and that's not enough for the huge hit and damage loss.

Run Heroic MgT and get yourself a [Rod of the Blazing Light], socket it with 3 [Sparkling Empyrean Sapphire]. It's the 2nd highest spirit stick in the game, and it's easy to farm, (highest is [Golden Staff of the Sin'dorei] off Kil'jaeden). When I self-innervate I've macroed in a swap to this rod and I get a full mana bar, (10k or so) at the end of the innervate and I continue to spend mana during innervate so it's more than 10k total.

Moginheden · 09/02/08, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by erragal

Yea, I definitely realized retroactively that simply stopping casting would have resulted in more mana regen. It's difficult in the midst of the fight to realize it if you haven't planned it out ahead of time. The downranking is something I've also been considering as my raid buffs are pushing me above 1600 spell damage.

Stopping casting when your not oom will reduce your mana regen as you need to wait for the 5 second rule twice, (unless your threat capped.) It's better to go oom, wait for a while, then start up again rather than starting and stopping.

If your threat capped at any point during the fight and expect to go oom, wait longer than needed for threat to start casting again. As you've already gotten past the 5 second rule.

Öwlcapwn · 09/11/08, 1:26 AM

I was wondering what the concensus was for SWP balance druids on gear set up. Currently trying to down Felmyst. ATM i have the belt and bracers T6. i'm running at around 1400+ spell damage 200+ haste ~25 crit unbuffed. I know there is a lot of talk in this thread about wearing 4/5 T5 4/8 T6 til you get most of the upgrades out of SWP.

My question basically is should I look to pick up the Cloth DPS pieces rather than the Leather? MAXdps.com puts most of the cloth pieces above the leather pieces for best in slot. Is this true with an entire gear set up? There is no spirit from what i can remember atm on any of the cloth pieces which would equate out to less MP5. anyway thanks for the advice ahead of time.

Efejel · 09/11/08, 1:50 AM

We just downed Felmyst a couple of weeks ago, and I still haven't picked up boots, so I can relate my experience.

I'm using T5 Helm (no T6 yet), T6 Chest, Bracers, Belt, Shoulders, Leather SWP Gloves & Legs (due to rarity of Sunmotes & Brut's cloth legs), Illidan cloak, Naj'entus MH, badge OH.

Depending on availability, I'd say it's worth going after the cloth pants but I wouldn't worry about the crafted gloves unless you ALWAYS get a SPriest and your guild is rolling in Sunmotes. Beyond that, if you have access to double 4-pc. bonuses, and you're willing to do what's best for the guild rather than simply yourself, you'd do well to pick up the leather pieces when they'd otherwise be sharded, but wait to take cloth until all of your regular clothies have had their chances. Depending on your loot system, this might put you earlier in line for trinkets, rings, necklaces, cloaks, and weapons.

Oh, and if you're over 200 haste (and lack either a Skull of Gul'dan or a Hex-shrunken Head) I'd give the Ashtongue trinket a try in your boss sets.

Boswell · 09/11/08, 1:52 AM

Originally Posted by Öwlcapwn

I was wondering what the concensus was for SWP balance druids on gear set up. Currently trying to down Felmyst. ATM i have the belt and bracers T6. i'm running at around 1400+ spell damage 200+ haste ~25 crit unbuffed. I know there is a lot of talk in this thread about wearing 4/5 T5 4/8 T6 til you get most of the upgrades out of SWP.

My question basically is should I look to pick up the Cloth DPS pieces rather than the Leather? MAXdps.com puts most of the cloth pieces above the leather pieces for best in slot. Is this true with an entire gear set up? There is no spirit from what i can remember atm on any of the cloth pieces which would equate out to less MP5. anyway thanks for the advice ahead of time.

Essentially, a shadow priest is necessary for a balance druid raiding sunwell, especially at the higher haste levels. It's without a question MANDATORY no matter how many regen talents you have or chain mana potting with innervate. With that said, if you have a shadow priest you should be able to sustain very good mana to last, even without a lot of the leather pieces, which should only be temporary upgrades till you can get the cloth pieces. (Leggings of Calamity/Amice of the Convoker/Robes of Ghostly Hatred/Dark Conjurer's Collar/Handguards of Defiled Worlds).

I've done the math and the best combination I could come up with is T6 belt/boot/bracer/chest with amice/calamity/handguards/collar. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Sure, spirit is important for mana regen, but generally speaking the mp5 difference wouldn't matter if you have a shadow priest in your group, which you do need and should always have. So yeah, cloth gear > leather gear.

This has been the best I've done with ~300 haste and soaking meteor slashes, It's been weeks since I haven't gotten chain burned or I had to travel form around to resurrect people so I haven't had a chance to try to break that record, which I should be able to because I'm almost 2x better geared then I was when I did that.

Wow Web Stats

EDIT//To quote Manly for the hell of it for more insight on mana:

More mana + more time = more damage?
In PVE, 'more time' does not exists. If you kill a boss in 3 min, having more mana doesn't means you get to dps for 3:30. Thus, more mana is not more dps.

mana regen is not a DPS stat

if mana regen is not dps, then how do you balance caster dps ?
logically, you can *only* balance caster dps based on max dps cycle; ie: ignore mana concerns.

Amiran · 09/13/08, 2:50 AM

Ok so recently I have had some changes to my gear gaining about 3% haste and 1% crit and for the life of me I can not figure out why my DPS has gone down from an average of about 1500 to between 13 and 1400.

The World of Warcraft Armory

So here I am. I seem to have exhausted every possible option I can think of so I came to the direct source of all the pros for assistance in what I'm doing wrong. Usually for the relatively quick fights I do MF SFx5 with FF tagged on the end of every second one and for longer fights usually just using SF. This past raid week I keep getting a ridiculous amount of partial resists on my crits (about 50% of them are partial resists). If there is anything I might possibly have done wrong I would love to hear the suggestions on how to fix it.

Öwlcapwn · 09/14/08, 3:27 AM

Originally Posted by Amiran

Ok so recently I have had some changes to my gear gaining about 3% haste and 1% crit and for the life of me I can not figure out why my DPS has gone down from an average of about 1500 to between 13 and 1400.

The World of Warcraft Armory

So here I am. I seem to have exhausted every possible option I can think of so I came to the direct source of all the pros for assistance in what I'm doing wrong. Usually for the relatively quick fights I do MF SFx5 with FF tagged on the end of every second one and for longer fights usually just using SF. This past raid week I keep getting a ridiculous amount of partial resists on my crits (about 50% of them are partial resists). If there is anything I might possibly have done wrong I would love to hear the suggestions on how to fix it.

IMO you are to a little on Spell Damage. Any socket you have 5crit/6dam gems i would replace with either haste/dam or just straight dam (personally with your gear set up atm i would go with 12 damage) and get rid of the BT trinket and either use the icon of the silver crescent, H MgT timbals focus, or Quags eye Until you can get a Skull of Gul'dan.

Socketing for crit is terrible, you should rely on your items equip stat for crit and also the Meta Skyfire 12 crit / 3% crit damage. i'm using the shadow casters drape but the Illidari Council cloak is much better if you can get it. I would also get rid of your shoulders, anything else will do, spell pen is a wasted stat. Sunfire enchant is also a good idea since Boss spell rotation at your level is MF SF(til moonfire expires; i neer refresh moonfire until it wears out) Mainhand off Najentus, offhand off Anetheron is a better set up, though the staff from illidan is your best bet. Anything from SWP is better of course. Rings - Third chest even from ZA, and either Trash BT haste ring or SWP pattern trash drop.

Amiran · 09/14/08, 2:13 PM

The shoulders I have are much better than anything else I have available to me right now. As for the trinket everything I've read says its the best until the Skull of Gul'dan. Also when I started socketing for haste thats when I noticed my DPS start to go down it seems the more haste I get the more my DPS decreases.

bodvarbjarki · 09/14/08, 9:53 PM

In my opinion you don't have enough spell haste to justify using the the BT trinket (and trading dmg for more haste to use it is not a good choice). The haste will come in time. I still love the DM:Crusade card, and the Alchemist's Stone isn't a bad choice either (leveling alch is fast, and you don't even have tailoring maxed).

I don't know how "everything you read" could have said that the BT trinket was the best until the Skull. Certainly I wouldn't say that is the consensus view on these forums.

In any case, I would follow the instructions of the previous poster before you do anything else---get rid of your crit gems. I'd also dump those bracers and get the HoD ones made if you don't expect to see the Kalecgos bracers soon.

The effectiveness of haste relies on you having no mana issues (I assume you must always get a SP?). Low lag also helps.

Amiran · 09/15/08, 12:24 AM

The only other trinket I have directly available is the Icon (should I use it or try and run for Quag's eye or the MGT trinket?) and as far as those bracers tracking down hearts on my server is next to impossible and my guild is still gearing people for mother.

As for the Mp5 issue lately its been a problem because my guild is dumping me in a group with 4 mages and I didn't even get wisdom tonight, but most of our fights last 4-5 minutes which I can easily maintain my mana bar for. My latency is usually <50 so that's not a problem.

Any other comments?

Moginheden · 09/17/08, 4:05 PM

Originally Posted by Amiran

The only other trinket I have directly available is the Icon (should I use it or try and run for Quag's eye or the MGT trinket?) and as far as those bracers tracking down hearts on my server is next to impossible and my guild is still gearing people for mother.

As for the Mp5 issue lately its been a problem because my guild is dumping me in a group with 4 mages and I didn't even get wisdom tonight, but most of our fights last 4-5 minutes which I can easily maintain my mana bar for. My latency is usually <50 so that's not a problem.

Any other comments?

Lag comes from 2 sources, the computer and the user. It doesn't matter how good a connection you have if you only hit the button once every minute. look at the combat log and see how far apart your casts are.

Are you threat capped? with only 1 point in subtlety your tank has to be very good for you to not pull if your putting out your max damage.

Are you comparing apples to oranges? Don't worry if your damage on RoS doesn't match your damage on Supremus, each fight has different reasons why you can't chaincast and some of them are more effective than others so your dps will vary.

As for trinkets do you use IS? If you use IS and MF or MF more than one target at a time, then timbals it better than icon. If you only use MF use the icon. There was a table a while back in this thread comparing most of the trinkets. currently you have both hex and icon equipped in armory. I can't test it as hexlord hates me but I thought they were on the same cooldown, if so get rid of the icon.

Amiran · 09/18/08, 12:15 AM

I use MF only minus Archimonde in which I try to keep IS up. The trinkets dont share a cooldown theres just the delay of waiting for the first to wear off before you can use the second.

As for threat only fight ive ever had Omen's alarm going off on is TG because we BL'd at like 85%. So yes my tank is very very good.

Latherus · 09/18/08, 5:03 PM

I didn't want to do work today as it is my Friday and I wanted to kind of put a visual by-the-numbers perspective on the debate. Attached are the three comparative RAWR docs which will show all gear/enchants/gems and raid buffs as well to defend the numbers below.

I do not know if anyone uses RAWR here but these are the gear selections I have come up with regarding those two "fabled" sets. ( I was going to post on FileFront the same gear/gems/buffs etc. into the spreadsheet for each gear set but it would take too much time and I'm almost done for the day as it is... sorry there isn't another medium for comparison though you kids can do that at home this weekend if you so choose

)

RAWR - Download Site

T6 / Sunwell (Cloth) : RAWR_T6-Sunwell_Cloth - FileFront.com
T6 / Sunwell (Leather) : RAWR_T6-Sunwell_Leather - FileFront.com
4T5 / 4T6 : RAWR_4T5-4T6 - FileFront.com
8/8 T6 : RAWR_8of8_T6.xml - FileFront.com

The following assumes a few things as well:

1) You DO NOT have access to the Kil'Jaden Loot Table yet though all other loot in any instance are accessible and up for grabs.
2) You have Enchanting (375) for +12 spell damage enchants for rings
3) Your group consists of: Spriest, Destro Lock, Ele Shaman, Mage. (My guild's grp5 group setup is what I used and my shammy totam twists)

As stated before this is just a "for-instance" not what actually is manageable inside your guild's gear dynamics...

T6 / Sunwell (Cloth) Pre KJ

Head [Cowl of the Illidari High Lord]
Neck [Amulet of Unfettered Magics]
Shoulders [Thunderheart Shoulderpads]
Chest [Sunfire Robe]
Waist [Thunderheart Cord]
Legs [Leggings of Calamity]
Feet [Thunderheart Footwraps]
Wrist [Thunderheart Bands]
Hands [Sunfire Handwraps]
Finger1 [Loop of Forged Power]
Finger2 [Ring of Ancient Knowledge]
Trinket1 [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]
Trinket2 [The Skull of Gul'dan]
Back [Shroud of the Highborne]
MainHand [Reign of Misery]
OffHand [Heart of the Pit]
Ranged [Idol of the Unseen Moon]

Raid Buffed
Race: Tauren
Health: 10809
Mana: 11405
Armor: 2804
Agility: 96
Stamina: 686
Intellect: 621
Spirit: 277
Spell Hit: 15.41%
Spell Crit: 31.43%
Spell Haste: 338
Arcane Damage: 1674.25
Nature Damage: 1624.25
O5SR Per Second: 99.38
I5SR Per Second: 54.32
Max DPS Rotation: MF/SFx4
MF/SFx4 DPS: 1929.01

T6 / Sunwell (Leather) Pre KJ

Head [Cowl of the Illidari High Lord]
Neck [Amulet of Unfettered Magics]
Shoulders [Thunderheart Shoulderpads]
Chest [Utopian Tunic of Elune]
Waist [Thunderheart Cord]
Legs [Breeches of Natural Aggression]
Feet [Thunderheart Footwraps]
Wrist [Thunderheart Bands]
Hands [Tranquil Moonlight Wraps]
Finger1 [Loop of Forged Power]
Finger2 [Mana Attuned Band]
Trinket1 [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]
Trinket2 [The Skull of Gul'dan]
Back [Shroud of the Highborne]
MainHand [Reign of Misery]
OffHand [Heart of the Pit]
Ranged [Idol of the Unseen Moon]

Raid Buffed
Race: Tauren
Health: 10462
Mana: 11435
Armor: 3377
Agility: 96
Stamina: 653
Intellect: 623
Spirit: 330
Spell Hit: 18.02%
Spell Crit: 28.92%
Spell Haste: 309
Arcane Damage: 1650.75
Nature Damage: 1600.75
Max DPS Rotation: MF/SFx4
MF/SFx4 DPS: 1853.49

4T5 / 4T6

Head [Nordrassil Headpiece]
Neck [Amulet of Unfettered Magics]
Shoulders [Nordrassil Wrath-Mantle]
Chest [Nordrassil Chestpiece]
Waist [Thunderheart Cord]
Legs [Nordrassil Wrath-Kilt]
Feet [Thunderheart Footwraps]
Wrist [Thunderheart Bands]
Hands [Thunderheart Handguards]
Finger1 [Loop of Forged Power]
Finger2 [Ring of Ancient Knowledge]
Trinket1 [The Skull of Gul'dan]
Trinket2 [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]
Back [Shroud of the Highborne]
MainHand [Reign of Misery]
OffHand [Heart of the Pit]
Ranged [Idol of the Unseen Moon]

Raid Buffed
Race: Tauren
Health: 10588
Mana: 11135
Armor: 3319
Agility: 96
Stamina: 665
Intellect: 603
Spirit: 376
Spell Hit: 18.26%
Spell Crit: 26.40%
Spell Haste: 268
Arcane Damage: 1568.75
Nature Damage: 1518.75
Max DPS Rotation: MF/SFx4
MF/SFx4 DPS: 1841.35

8/8 T6

Head [Thunderheart Headguard]
Neck [Amulet of Unfettered Magics]
Shoulders [Thunderheart Shoulderpads]
Chest [Thunderheart Vest]
Waist [Thunderheart Cord]
Legs [Thunderheart Pants]
Feet [Thunderheart Footwraps]
Wrist [Thunderheart Bands]
Hands [Thunderheart Handguards]
Finger1 [Loop of Forged Power]
Finger2 [Mana Attuned Band]
Trinket1 [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]
Trinket2 [The Skull of Gul'dan]
Back [Shroud of the Highborne]
MainHand [Reign of Misery]
OffHand [Heart of the Pit]
Ranged [Idol of the Unseen Moon]

Raid Buffed
Race: Tauren
Health: 10399
Mana: 11585
Armor: 3455
Agility: 96
Stamina: 647
Intellect: 633
Spirit: 387
Spell Hit: 21.27%
Spell Crit: 27.68%
Spell Haste: 271
Arcane Damage: 1588.25
Nature Damage: 1538.25
Max DPS Rotation: MF/SFx4
MF/SFx4 DPS: 1751.24

1929.01 DPS = T6 / Sunwell (Cloth) Pre KJ
-75.52 DPS
1853.49 DPS = T6 / Sunwell (Leather) Pre KJ
-8.14 DPS
1841.35 DPS = 4T5 / 4T6
-90.11 DPS
1751.24 DPS = 8/8 T6

In closing, there are many factors in-game that would not allow you to have such access to this gear, and more over if you do happen to get the T6 / Sunwell set as indicated above most likely either you're the Boomkin Guild Leader and are gear hording, or your guild is well geared (allowing these items allocated to you and not another clothie) enough to down KJ... The most plausible progressive set you can get is 4T5 and then get dumped into a guild on M'uru, as is my current position, to gear yourself up with T6 then as time comes you can replace the T5 with a cloth dump of all three-four items to maximize your DPS.

**Side note: my RAWR didn't have the Starfire Idol to put in place of the Moonfire one... so yeah... numbers would be slightly different though would be the same across the board anyway as far as the varying differences.

-Lath

PS Don't know if anyone even cares seeing how the expansion's release date is rapidly approaching... though I still am on the track for personal progression into BC endgame, and I want to see it while "it's still hard" >.>

Edit: Added 8/8 T6 set for comparison

Angelfire · 09/22/08, 4:56 AM

Guys, I was trying to use the Wowhead's upgrade finder thingie, just to try and find some interesting items, and you have this list of criteria, and the weight each criteria should get when searching for an upgrade. Now it is obviously not set up properly for me (raiding in early BT atm), as there is no haste, and crit is way over rated in my honest opinion.
You guys know what it should be set up so that it would actually show me upgrades?
An example for a head search can be found here