Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 126

bodvarbjarki · 09/22/08, 1:47 PM

Download the spreadsheet on the first page, put in your gear, increment the stats one at a time, and see how much your dps changes. This will be more accurate in assessing upgrades for your current gear compared to any "typical" values someone might tell you. Or, given that there probably aren't that many upgrades in a given slot, you can put them individually into the spreadsheet. Nearly anything you would want is listed in a pull-down menu so it's easy to scroll through them.

Oh, and replace that Kara trinket. You're an alchemist, get the Stone.

Latherus · 09/22/08, 2:02 PM

As stated before I use RAWR to help me find the best in slot, as well as the wowarmory (though it bugs half the time and it's too useful) but I also always fall back on the gear selections that Ef put up way back in the day here in the wowboomkinforums (section "8" is helms and shoulders for upgrades.)

All in all you have to look at the loot tables of the bosses your guild does. Look at your current stats, taking into account Hit > Dmg (1200) / Haste > Crit formula, and go with what you need. Always keep hit-cap, improve dmg then when you get your T6 four set gem for haste/dmg and when you're in sunwell with base dmg well over 1200 dmg gem for pure hast to get you above the 157 haste mark so you can sfx5 with one moonfire dot. take all that into consideration and find the upgrades you can use now to get you to those numbers.

Not all those programs or websites or mods will really do you justice more than seeing your base stats and plugging them into the spreadsheet or your head to figure the best DPS yield for yourself.

Angelfire · 09/23/08, 9:12 AM

@bodvarbjarki - I'm using the [/item]Scryer's Bloodgem[item] because I just cannot find any other way to get hit capped (unless I regem everything to + hit) and I use [Pendant of the Violet Eye] for the mana, which I'm also a bit low on...
I have petty much all other caster trinkets available to my level (well, I do not have the [Icon of the Silver Crescent] or the [Hex Shrunken Head]) but I simply cannot replace those, for the above mentioned reasons.
I guess that when I start leveling to 80 I'll get rid of them, as hit and int will not be as important when grinding, but until then, I simply see no other way.

Ohdrin · 09/23/08, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Angelfire

@bodvarbjarki - I'm using the [/item]Scryer's Bloodgem[item] because I just cannot find any other way to get hit capped (unless I regem everything to + hit) and I use [Pendant of the Violet Eye] for the mana, which I'm also a bit low on...
I have petty much all other caster trinkets available to my level (well, I do not have the [Icon of the Silver Crescent] or the [Hex Shrunken Head]) but I simply cannot replace those, for the above mentioned reasons.
I guess that when I start leveling to 80 I'll get rid of them, as hit and int will not be as important when grinding, but until then, I simply see no other way.

If you're raiding you should've been gemmed for hit already.

Your helm is gemmed for +4 spell Crit/+5 Spell Damage x2 and +4 Spell Haste/+6 Stam.

You shoulders are gemmed +4 Int/+2 MP5 and +4 spell Crit/+5 Spell Damage. That int/MP5gem is complete garbage for Moonkin.

Your chest is gemmed alright, but you could've dropped 3 more Veiled Noble Topaz in there for another 12 Hit Rating. Same with your staff, gloves, and boots. More Veiled Nobles in those as well. Gemming for crit just isn't a good idea in my opinion. Crit will come with upgrades and raid buffs.

You've got a +8 Int gem and a +4 Spell Haste/+6 Stam gem in your pants and gemming for Intellect is also a bad decision.

Just looking at your gear load out you've obviously put in a ton of work getting badges and upgrades and just made some bad gemming decisions that, if this were 6 or even 3 months ago, I'd say you really need to fix in addition to getting the badge shoulders which are a great upgrade over the Tier 4 you're wearing now.

You also might want to look in to running the Brewfest event going on in BRD currently. The caster DPS trinket that drops off the boss there is an Icon with a different name and its essentially free since all you're doing is running a boss for drops.

I got stuck on the Pendant for a while myself when I started Kara pretty much right after BC release. Its a great trinket for when you can get it and it can be handy on occasion but stacking Int and giving up 40 some odd spell power and the on use abilities of caster DPS trinkets just isn't a good trade.

Faerdael · 09/23/08, 12:14 PM

Hit is essentially the cheapest stat point for point to increse, at about 12.6 spell hit for 1% spell hit increase, as opposed to 15.7 spell haste for 1% or 22.1 spell crit for 1%, so don't really think of hit gems as a bad thing. Get a [Belt of Blasting] crafted, that pretty much fixes your hit rating issues outright, and its really hard to find a gear setup where the Supremus belt outperforms it, unless you can use absolutely none of the hit on Blasting. In fact, that would probably get you close enough on hit where you should drop the Moroes neck and pickup a [Guardian's Pendant of Subjugation] (very big upgrade).

There is really no reason not to have [Dark Iron Smoking Pipe] from Brewfest right now (its a terribly easy little fight) and [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone] as your trinkets (the Alchemist stone will help your mana alot more than the Pendant, plus a good chunk of spell damage). I am counting 5 blue gems on your setup right now, which is not ideal. Even if you had a helm with a Meta socket, you would only need 2 for a Chaotic meta, so try not to get tunnel vision on socket bonuses.

On a side note, is it looking like the gem of choice for blue requirements come 3.0.2 (and spell power stat) will be the [Purified Shadowsong Amethyst]?.

Latherus · 09/23/08, 12:44 PM

Angelfire,

Do you have a WWS of any of your fights in Black Temple or Hyjal? You have nearly the same mana regen and total mana pool as myself though you have stated you have mana issues. I can cast on my rotation for over a 6 minutes of a fight with a battle rez projected and not go oom, even without self innervate. You may either want to look at your rotation and if you find yourself lacking too much in mana you can always fallback on IS over MF for better DPM. Another thing is if you have an Spriest in your group for mana batt, though I believe the first two solutions will eliviate your issues enough to regem...

Originally Posted by Ohdrin

If you're raiding you should've been gemed for hit already.

I never try to gem for hit, I always look for the items that will give me those required stats and then put damage or haste gems in those items. Right now Angelfire is sitting at 150 spl hit which is 2 spl hit below the cap, if he had his current gear gemed as it is and was at say 114 without an Ele Shaman in his group I would say start poping [Veiled Noble Topaz] like breathmints, though as it is he really just needs to put forth some +12 spl dmg gems and moderate his current BoP hitcap.

bodvarbjarki · 09/23/08, 1:26 PM

Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that you do have mana issues. It's not enough to decide "This trinket gives me back mana so I should use it." First, the Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone gives an equivalent to ~ 40 m/5 (vs 25 m/5 at the most for the Pendant, even if you're just wrath spamming). And that's just the mana benefit---obviously +63 dmg is overwhelmingly better for dps than +40 int. Second, you should understand that at any gear level there are likely to be one or two stats are are better than the others, and you should gem and select upgrades around these stats. Selecting gems or gear for "balance" (a bit of int, crit, hit, dmg, etc) is rarely a good choice.

I'd start by reading (or rereading) the EJ Primer on Moonkins:

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t21687-druid_balance/

Obviously only you can decide if it's worthwhile to put effort into improving your gear before the expansion, but you came here so you must care at least a bit.

Angelfire · 09/25/08, 5:19 AM

First, a WWS page from BT: WWS Loading...
Second, thanks for all the comments, but I have a few questions:
1. How can [Belt of Blasting] be better than [Waistwrap of Infinity]? The belt has no Stam or Int (and the stam is very important as I hardly make the requirement to even enter BT as it is, needing 8.5K HP unbuffed), and has no haste and less damage, which I understand are most important? I think I prefer to re-gem for hit/dmg gems, thus gaining enough +hit to drop the [Scryer's Bloodgem] without losing too much +dmg.
2. I do not why I have mana issues, but now that you mention the [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone] I realise I'm simply not chain-potting mana pots which is apparently your favorite method of keeping mana up (although this will change with the new debuff in Wrath, keep in mind), and anywayz in a 6 minutes fight as you say, you can only use 2 pots, so that's not so much benefit on the [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone], is it?
3. I have the [Dark Iron Smoking Pipe], but like I said above, am having a hard time in swapping it in, because I need the other trinkets...
4. I already got the tip about gemming out of crit, but couldn't quite decide what to get into yet, so I guess I'll go fot hit now.
5. Since I'm in a guild which just entered MH/BT, our fights often take more than 6 minutes, and we somtimes hit enrage timers, so of course mana becomes an issue, which I assumed would be best addressed by +int/+MP5 gems/trinkets. Don't you agree? I mean, if I have no mana, I'm useless

On a sidenote, anyone has a clue what would be the proc chance on the new moonkin form 2% mana on crit thing?

Frenzi · 09/25/08, 5:53 AM

Belt of Blasting is just purely amazing you can't even compare the belt from Supremus. You are also really contradicting yourself, you say you can't replcae the Scryers blood gem because you need hit but you don't want to sacrifice the int/stam from the supremus belt. Yet you then go on to say that you aren't chain potting so the Alchemy trinket isn't worthwhile equipping because fights only last 6 minutes? Oh and then you say that your guild just entered MH/BT and the fights take longer than 6 minutes?

If you aren't chain potting what do you need the extra int for? Stam you can equip if a fight needs it, which is basically only Naj'entus until SWP? I mean really just look at what people have suggested.

1. Get Belt of Blasting
2. Use the Alchemy Trinket (If hit is such a big issue dump the non scryers trinket for the Alchemy one)
3. Gem for hit, the best way to do this is using Veiled Pyrestones. Look at your set bonuses, are they worth matching for the bonus? Blue sockets are terrible to match and you should only be aiming for two used to get a chaotic skyfire, everything else should ideally be runed crimsons or veiled pyrestones, changing to reckless when hit capped.
4. Don't panic so much about not being hit capped, it isn't the end of the world if you drop 20 points below so long as you are replacing it with something that still ups your DPS.

Lambach · 09/25/08, 5:55 AM

Originally Posted by Angelfire

First, a WWS page from BT: WWS Loading...
Second, thanks for all the comments, but I have a few questions:
1. How can [Belt of Blasting] be better than [Waistwrap of Infinity]? The belt has no Stam or Int (and the stam is very important as I hardly make the requirement to even enter BT as it is, needing 8.5K HP unbuffed), and has no haste and less damage, which I understand are most important? I think I prefer to re-gem for hit/dmg gems, thus gaining enough +hit to drop the [Scryer's Bloodgem] without losing too much +dmg.
2. I do not why I have mana issues, but now that you mention the [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone] I realise I'm simply not chain-potting mana pots which is apparently your favorite method of keeping mana up (although this will change with the new debuff in Wrath, keep in mind), and anywayz in a 6 minutes fight as you say, you can only use 2 pots, so that's not so much benefit on the [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone], is it?
3. I have the [Dark Iron Smoking Pipe], but like I said above, am having a hard time in swapping it in, because I need the other trinkets...
4. I already got the tip about gemming out of crit, but couldn't quite decide what to get into yet, so I guess I'll go fot hit now.
5. Since I'm in a guild which just entered MH/BT, our fights often take more than 6 minutes, and we somtimes hit enrage timers, so of course mana becomes an issue, which I assumed would be best addressed by +int/+MP5 gems/trinkets. Don't you agree? I mean, if I have no mana, I'm useless

On a sidenote, anyone has a clue what would be the proc chance on the new moonkin form 2% mana on crit thing?

1. Because it has sockets.
2. 3 pots in a six minute fight.
3. You say you need the other trinkets? Dont you need the trinkets that provide the most dps?
4. Hit until cap and then spell dmg at your gear level.
5. No, you need to conserve mana, and learn to use it correctly. Also you need to get some time with a shadow priest or mana tide.

Angelfire · 09/25/08, 8:58 AM

@Frenzy - Re the belt - But would you not agree it'd be better to get the hit I need from gems, thus not loosing any +dmg at all and no stats, and replace the Bloodgem with the Pipe for example, rather than take the belt and loose stats, Haste and damage?
Re potting, I mentioned it as an oversight by my side, not as something to be proud of... I'll start doing that now, and will get the Alchemy stone, if you think it'll be the best one to match the Pipe.
I also did not inderstand this: "If you aren't chain potting what do you need the extra int for?" - What do you mean? I cannot see the connection... I need as big as mana pool as I can, and I should pot to keep that mana pool up, but the more mana I have, the better, and the more Int I have, the more mana I have, regardless of pots, no?
As for socket bonus, they are all +damage of course, and since to my understanding that's the most important stat, I usually try to get it. I guess I'll now swap all +Int/+mp5 gems, and I'm still not clear on how can I do that and still have enough mana to last a 6 minutes fight (and what about a 10 minutes fight as it happens sometimes?)

@ Lambach - I meant 2 pots because you do not pot the second the fight starts, do you? so you take a minute or 2 into the fight, having enough time for 2 pots, maybe 3 if you potted really early.
Re the mana conservation - How??? I use very carefull rotations, of IS/MF/SFx3 to begin the fight, and than usually MF/SFx3 throught the fight. I do not get my own innervate, and usually do not get a shaman/SP. Of course, in mobility fights I lean more towards heavy dotting/Wrath usage, as required. Can I do better? How?

erragal · 09/25/08, 9:17 AM

Originally Posted by Angelfire

@ Lambach - I meant 2 pots because you do not pot the second the fight starts, do you? so you take a minute or 2 into the fight, having enough time for 2 pots, maybe 3 if you potted really early.
Re the mana conservation - How??? I use very carefull rotations, of IS/MF/SFx3 to begin the fight, and than usually MF/SFx3 throught the fight. I do not get my own innervate, and usually do not get a shaman/SP. Of course, in mobility fights I lean more towards heavy dotting/Wrath usage, as required. Can I do better? How?

If you're casting properly you will be 3k mana down within the first 30 seconds of a fight and that's when you pot. You don't use a mana pot at a set time, you need to monitor your mana pool closely. I believe the implication was that if you weren't using maximum mana potions, it was because you had enough mana so you shouldn't need mana gemming.

If you do not get a shadow priest, you should get your own innervate. It's your evocate. To be perfectly honest, they might as well not take you if they're giving your innervate away and not giving you a shadow priest. Six minutes is very difficult without a shadow priest or shaman and exactly perfect potting, dark runes, innervates while using elixirs and having a ret pally. If you don't get your innervate, you -won't- be chain casting in a six minute fight with that group composition.

Working without a shadow priest as a balance druid requires very precise knowledge of your total mana in a fight, and every way to maximize it. There will be times where switching from blinding light to draenic wisdom + adept's elixir will be the best DPS choice for you in the longer fights.

Frenzi · 09/25/08, 9:30 AM

No the belt of blasting is better in every aspect and always has been, you are better getting your haste from sockets than taking a belt with poor itemisation over something that is as good as BoB. I would recommend you replace your haste/stam gems with the Glowing Nightseye/Amethyst, not only do you get more out of them but they will also improve your mana efficiency. I would say it is to early for you to be looking at haste.

My point with the int is that if you had a large enough mana pool it can let you not pot as often as the goal of any fight is to end on 0 mana and if you aren't using mana pots then you can be using destruction pots instead.

I agree with Erragal also, with your gear level it will be impossible for you to last without a SP or your own Innervate. If this is the norm you especially want to steer away from haste as it is only going to make things much worse for you and the Alchemy trinket should be your first choice above all trinkets.

Is there a reason you aren't put in a group with a SP by your raid leader? Do you have a lack of SP's, I know this is something that has been quite common in my guild but being the raid leader I get my way most of the time anyway

• Adoriele · 09/25/08, 9:42 AM

Originally Posted by Angelfire

@Frenzy - Re the belt - But would you not agree it'd be better to get the hit I need from gems, thus not loosing any +dmg at all and no stats, and replace the Bloodgem with the Pipe for example, rather than take the belt and loose stats, Haste and damage?
Re potting, I mentioned it as an oversight by my side, not as something to be proud of... I'll start doing that now, and will get the Alchemy stone, if you think it'll be the best one to match the Pipe.
I also did not inderstand this: "If you aren't chain potting what do you need the extra int for?" - What do you mean? I cannot see the connection... I need as big as mana pool as I can, and I should pot to keep that mana pool up, but the more mana I have, the better, and the more Int I have, the more mana I have, regardless of pots, no?
As for socket bonus, they are all +damage of course, and since to my understanding that's the most important stat, I usually try to get it. I guess I'll now swap all +Int/+mp5 gems, and I'm still not clear on how can I do that and still have enough mana to last a 6 minutes fight (and what about a 10 minutes fight as it happens sometimes?)

@ Lambach - I meant 2 pots because you do not pot the second the fight starts, do you? so you take a minute or 2 into the fight, having enough time for 2 pots, maybe 3 if you potted really early.
Re the mana conservation - How??? I use very carefull rotations, of IS/MF/SFx3 to begin the fight, and than usually MF/SFx3 throught the fight. I do not get my own innervate, and usually do not get a shaman/SP. Of course, in mobility fights I lean more towards heavy dotting/Wrath usage, as required. Can I do better? How?

First off, your gemming is horrible. Atrocious. There is no reason to gem for int or crit ever, and you shouldn't be gemming for Haste if you're not hit-capped. Period. And relying on a BLUE trinket to keep you capped in BT is beyond stupidity. I don't care what you think, it's wrong. Switch your Scryers' trinket for the Pipe, re-gem to keep yourself capped. The way you're doing it now is a waste of itemization points. If you were to switch belts and trinkets, you'd lose 5 hit rating (1 gem worth, if you're using veileds, which you should), 32 haste, 22 int, and gaining 51 spellpower, a better click effect on your trinket (big part is 20s vs. 15s), and 30 crit rating. That should be an easy choice.

Int is a poor DPS stat. You gain .25 spellpower, and (1/99)% crit, which is about the same as .22 crit rating, which is about the same as .11 spellpower. So by gemming for Int, you're throwing away potentially 9 spellpower (we'll stick to blue gems for now) for the equivalent of 2.88 spellpower. Your starting mana does not matter. You start with, potentially, 12k mana, correct? You're going to get, in a 5-minute fight, 300s of in-combat regen, which is about 250 MP% for you I believe, which is 15k mana in itself. Not counting Innervate, which should return about 9k mana, two mana pots for 4800 more, and any other mana restores you have available. If you need more mana, Int is a poor way of getting it. Also, when you're chain potting, which you need to be doing, you wait until you've spent 3k mana, and pot before the next cast. You don't wait a minute, you don't wait until you're dry. You Pot as soon as you know you're not going to waste any of it, and then every cooldown afterwards.

[edit] Frenzi, you should try my guild sometime. We have two Spriests, and they both go to the Arcane mages. Unfortunately, one of the arcanes is the mage leader, and a good friend of the GL, so I doubt I'll be making any headway on convincing them to respec for the good of the guild. Also, just to note, they spec arcane and then cast frost spells.

Frenzi · 09/25/08, 10:05 AM

Now I realise this is seriously offtopic but the way we organise our SP's is that if we have two then one goes to the mage group and one goes to the Healers. Locks get a BM hunter and Resto Shaman. We don't currently have a boomkin but when we did we had him in the SP group with the mages. This is purely to keep the mana limited classes running as locks lose some damage but don't run into difficulties like other mana users obviously.

*awaits the banhammer*