Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 127

• Adoriele · 09/25/08, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Frenzi

Now I realise this is seriously offtopic but the way we organise our SP's is that if we have two then one goes to the mage group and one goes to the Healers. Locks get a BM hunter and Resto Shaman. We don't currently have a boomkin but when we did we had him in the SP group with the mages. This is purely to keep the mana limited classes running as locks lose some damage but don't run into difficulties like other mana users obviously.

*awaits the banhammer*

We're pretty caster-heavy, so it's not uncommon for us to field two caster groups. I'm usually in with a pair of Destros and an Ele, and then usually a mage or a healing pally. The Mage group is usually two mages, two spriests, and possibly a healer, or even a second ele.

Frenzi · 09/25/08, 10:30 AM

Well that is a crazy setup, I thought I was being selfish as a mage always grabbing one SP. We also field two caster groups and one Melee, but surely two SP's in the same group is a complete waste? I think someone needs to slap some sense into the person who puts groups together like that, you'd have to be specced arcane just to dump all the excess mana you would be wasting otherwise :S

Mage
Lock
SP
Boomkin
Ele Shaman

Mage
Mage
SP
Lock
Ele Shaman/Holy Pala

I think this would be more of an optimal setup.

• Adoriele · 09/25/08, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Frenzi

Well that is a crazy setup, I thought I was being selfish as a mage always grabbing one SP. We also field two caster groups and one Melee, but surely two SP's in the same group is a complete waste? I think someone needs to slap some sense into the person who puts groups together like that, you'd have to be specced arcane just to dump all the excess mana you would be wasting otherwise :S

Mage
Lock
SP
Boomkin
Ele Shaman

Mage
Mage
SP
Lock
Ele Shaman/Holy Pala

I think this would be more of an optimal setup.

Eh, LLSBE MMMSX would be better, though it depends on how good your destros are. Destro locks get a much better benefit from our aura than Mages do, and by that so do Spriests (ISB uptime). But yes, I'm well aware of how screwy the setup is, but given how close we are to 3.0 and the raid-widening of buffs, I'm content to let it slide. They, on the other hand get to live with me semi-intentionally suiciding the raid on Kaz occasionally >.>

And yeah, they're Arcane specced. And in fact they do pretty damn well on the meters. I was wrong about them only casting frost, I asked the leader about it once and that's what he told me, but looking at a WWS parse says they're using AB like they should be.

Faerdael · 09/25/08, 11:33 AM

@Angelfire
I'll make one final follow-up. It is worth noting, the stamina requirement for BT is 8500 buffed, not un-buffed, and that is only for the Najentus fight; otherwise you would have to leave half your priests and mages at home when starting BT.

To be specific on gear choices, consider the following items. With where your guild is at, you should also be looking at getting [Pauldrons of Tribal Fury] for 60 badges, as no upgrades are going to appear for shoulders for you until Mother (badge shoulders > T5 shoulders, when not factoring in socket bonuses. Also, shoulders appear to be one of your weakest geared slots currently (other than trinkets, which has already been covered), so in my opinion, you should consider that next for an upgrade.
Badge shoulders and belt of blasting = 47 hit rating right there; you would be at capped without any re-gemming (yet). Actually, you would be at 165 hit, which means you would be free to dump your current neck, and get the [Guardian's Pendant of Subjugation]. Its AV weekend, you are alliance, go get your 15.4k honor and collect your prize - that won't be upgraded until Requilary of Souls, and not even then assuming you are over 152 hit. The comment about gemming int simply means if you are gemming int, you must be doing if for mana problems, but if you are not potting regularly, then you aren't doing the very first thing to address your mana problems (really, CHANGE those int gems).

Sorry guys, I normally stick to hunter threads, but been working on moonkin gear all week so I am sort of on a roll.
How is this for raid composition: I had a shadow priest in my BM hunter group and we had a moonkin grouped with predominately holy paladins (poor poor moonkin) - we rotate raiders weekly, so some weeks the groups get a touch wonky.

Cynex · 09/28/08, 4:59 PM

Im a long time reader, never posted here before. But i got a question, since spreadsheet doesnt suport proc chance trinkets, i would like to ask about [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]. I am at 276 haste, i got a feeling this trinket might become usefull at high haste ratings. My trinket slots are poor, using [Icon of the Silver Crescent] and [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone] at the moment.
Is it worth to use it now / later / never? Thanks in advance.

Faerdael · 09/29/08, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Cynex

Im a long time reader, never posted here before. But i got a question, since spreadsheet doesnt suport proc chance trinkets, i would like to ask about [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]. I am at 276 haste, i got a feeling this trinket might become usefull at high haste ratings. My trinket slots are poor, using [Icon of the Silver Crescent] and [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone] at the moment.
Is it worth to use it now / later / never? Thanks in advance.

I am pretty certain the Ashtounge trinket is going to be a superior option.

First, here is a post from much earlier in this thread estimating trinket values for balance: Moonkin Trinket DPS Estimates

Second, some very crude napkin math on my part, which in no ways holds to the level of what Adoriele could crunch:

[Icon of the Silver Crescent]
Equip = 43 base spell damage
Use = 155spell damage for 20seconds out of every 120 seconds
Use = 25.8 spell damage avg
Total = average of 68.8 spell damage

[Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone]
63 spell damage; 40% bonus on pots

[Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]
At 276 haste, I am rougly estimating your starfire casts at 2.47 seconds, and your spell GCD is 1.24 seconds, and assuming a MF,SFx4 rotation, which totals to 11.12seconds per rotation.
Assuming this, the [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium] would average roughly 1 proc per rotation, meaning an average of 72% uptime, which would mean an average of 108 spell damage.

This isn't a 100% accurate obviously, since you may get overwriting procs or dry spells. Also this is not factoring in that with the given amount of haste and a 12 second moonfire, it is likely that you are doing a MF,SFx5 rotation, nor Nature's Grace procs (you are in some pvp gear, so I didn't trust the crit rating listed) or the saving of a GCD from clicking the Icon, all of which make the [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium] trinket even better.

Again, I am certain my math has holes, but it gives you a good general idea of the value of the [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium].

Cynex · 09/29/08, 11:13 AM

I have logged out in pvp gear sorry

. Thanks for the reply i indeed got the idea.

Sorilea · 10/03/08, 3:23 AM

Yet again last night the old argument of Crit over Spell Damage broke out between the Boomkins and wanna be Boomkin Tree.

The wannabe insisted that spell damage should be sacrificed to maintain a 30% crit level buffed....bearing in mind our raid composition rarely means that we have an Ele shaman available to both Moonkin (we raid with 2)

I myself (without the benefit of the ele shaman) normally raid with about 23.4% crit fully buffed and about 1370 (ish - but probably more) spell damage- In Moonkin form

The World of Warcraft Armory

Note, i was fortunate enough to get the new relic from Akama last night,,,hence why I am 26 over hit capped.

My question is, is the wannabe wrong?

• Adoriele · 10/03/08, 9:20 AM

Originally Posted by Sorilea

My question is, is the wannabe wrong?

Yes. There is no magic number for crit like there is for hit, and in any obtainable case spellpower is a better stat.

WOWTigra · 10/16/08, 11:43 PM

Gear selection now that all the healing gear is viable dps gear and vice versa? Good resources or places/tools to use to compare? I think I read that Efejel wasn't too eager to try to update the spreadsheet to deal with 3.0.

Has anyone come up with a sensible way to compare the gear and find ideal combinations?

My guild is suddenly able to get into SWP kills (if the server stays up) when I wasn't even really looking too hard at Kalecgos before and I don't even know what loot I should be bidding on, or know how to figure it out.

Is there maybe something like... spell hit is equivalent to 1 spell damage to cap, then 0. Spell haste is .75 of a spell damage, spell crit .5 of spell damage? I know it's all relative based on your existing crit/haste numbers v. spell damage, and a sliding scale would be even more valuable, but I know my math skills are definitely not up to figuring that out.

So, any ideas?

Efejel · 10/17/08, 2:59 AM

I'd ballpark dmg=1.00, crit=0.75, int=0.40, spi=0.25 at the hit cap. hit=1.15 if you're not hit capped

Haste we'll say (for those over 1000+spell) is somewhere around 1+(buffed_spell_dmg/10,000) such that:
1000 +spell => haste=1.10
1100 +spell => haste=1.11
1200 +spell => haste=1.12
etc.

No, I can't back this up with an equation. I'll take the ding if I get it.

Also, I'll confirm here that at the moment, there are no plans for a 3.0 spreadsheet. Simulations and multi-purpose tools like Rawr, as well as the spreadsheets in the WotLK thread should be enough to keep folks going, I hope.

Moginheden · 10/18/08, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Efejel

Also, I'll confirm here that at the moment, there are no plans for a 3.0 spreadsheet. Simulations and multi-purpose tools like Rawr, as well as the spreadsheets in the WotLK thread should be enough to keep folks going, I hope.

Since Efejel is discontinuing his spreadsheet, can anyone post a link here to the new spreadsheet? I thought I saw it in the wrath/upcoming moonkin thread but I can't find it now.

Vanee · 10/19/08, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Cynex

Im a long time reader, never posted here before. But i got a question, since spreadsheet doesnt suport proc chance trinkets, i would like to ask about [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]. I am at 276 haste, i got a feeling this trinket might become usefull at high haste ratings. My trinket slots are poor, using [Icon of the Silver Crescent] and [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone] at the moment.
Is it worth to use it now / later / never? Thanks in advance.

I have tried to quantify the average dmg gain from [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium] on July 23, using the Markov Chain.

When it proc, the buff "Blessing of Remulos" last 8s. A moonkin can cast 3 or 4 SF in 8s.

There is 5 states of this buff in SF spamming, and consider the average cast time of SF is 2.5s:

When the trinket procs, it's state 1, the buff's duration reads 8s - E1
And a SF falls, no procs, the duration reads 5.5s - E2
Another SF, no procs, 3s - E3
SF again, no procs, 0.5s - E4
Again and again, the buff fade - E5

Each state has a 25% chance to shift to E1, and 75% chance to shift to the next one. There is a figure showing these shift.

The probability of the states has equations:

P(E1) = 0.25 [P(E1)+P(E2)+P(E3)+P(E4)+P(E5)] 
P(E2) = 0.75P(E1) 
P(E3) = 0.75P(E2) 
P(E4) = 0.75P(E3) 
P(E5) = 0.75[P(E4)+P(E5)]
P(E1)+P(E2)+P(E3)+P(E4)+P(E5)=1

So I get

P(E1) = 0.25 
P(E2) = 0.25 x 0.75 
P(E3) = 0.25 x 0.75^2 
P(E4) = 0.25 x 0.75^3 
P(E5) = 0.75^4

My SF will be affected by E1, E2 and E3, that's 57.8% chance. The buff "Blessing of Remulos" has an average of 57.8% uptime, which mean an average of 86.72 spell damage.

If I get Blood Thirst, and my haste from gear is over 143, that's 103.13 spell damage.

Eilt · 10/20/08, 9:19 AM

So I finally got to raid as moonkin. I had been wanting to ever since I leveled my druid but found it was easier to raid as feral and then in BT/SWP I was resto. So the other night we killed all of SWP in under 2 hours (gg nerf bat) so we ran to BT and I specd moonkin and just wanted to give my comments on it and try and get some feedback.

This was my spec:
Talent Calculator

there was 5 points in Moonfury and E&M at this point.

And here is the WWS:
BT - WWS

As you can see on the overall I did pretty respectable, although it was largely do to the fact we literally would pull an entire room group it up and AoE everything down. In the situation Hurricane and Starfall (and 2/2 Gale) are a huge benefit. I would pop treants when they were up and I remembered with a trinket and let them wail away on w/e they made their way too. So the trash mobs and AoE DPS is a great, and no complaints there (unless they want to reduce the starfall cooldown

)

Now my concern comes in on the boss fights, I am at 149 hit and 2/2 BoP which is a little low, but we had a draneai and a couple of spriests so misery and the racial were more than enough to carry me to the hit I needed. I have ~110 haste from gear (2.2 second SF casttime I believe in raid) and ~1100 spellpower. Below is my armory, it should be my moonkin gear although the spec appears to be resto, but I linked my moonkin spec above.
Armory

My boss rotation was SF, Trinket + MF, SF.

I did take 1 point in Eclipse and set up Mik's to basically yell at me when it procd so I would switch to wrath spam when it came up, I would throw in treants when I knew they wouldn't die and if I had to run I would throw up IS and starfall just to have something ticking. But even with all this my boss DPS was still well under the other DPS classes, so what I really want to know is, was I doing something wrong or is it just not as easy for moonkins on single target DPS?

Thanks in advance!

Moginheden · 10/20/08, 2:06 PM

Moonkins do very well on boss fights.

I'm averaging 2.1k DPS on boss fights, about 300 DPS above anyone else in my guild.

Pre-patch I was doing 1.2k DPS average and getting one of of the top 6 spots, but day to day it varied what one.

I don't use eclipse, and I used to use IS to maintain my T5 set bonus, now that starfire and moonfire are glyped I don't use insect swarm unless I'm moving. My rotation is moonfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, starfire, loot corpse

armory is a bit buggy right now but you can see my gear and talents if it's working:
The World of Warcraft Armory

I have imp FF but I do not cast it. We have a shadow priest with missery. We have ferals that maintain FF.

I'm just as threat capped now as I used to be, (was 4/5 subtlety, now 2/2 reach) But asking for pain suppression and hand of salvation fixes it nicely.

edit: for gear level comparisons my guild is working on downing Illidain now. We got to him pre-3.0.2 nerf but haven't downed him yet.