Efejel

I may have figured out a simple solution to the "next N of X stat = Z DPS" problem, but I don't know how people feel about macros. Would any of you refuse to download the sheet if I added a (hopefully relatively small) macro?

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Saraya

I don't see an issue with macros in general. When you open the excel, the default settings will prompt you whether or not you want to allow macros. If they click no, they don't get the next N of X stat feature. If they click yes, they get to see it.

As long as you don't make it a feature that the whole spreadsheet is based around that basically disables all functionality if it is not enabled, you should be ok.

(I'm not sure why a macro is so necessary for doing this however...)

Regarding the nature's grace thing, I was probably seeing things.

Edit:
1 feature I'd like to see might be what you were referring to above, though I think it is slightly different(It goes along the lines of Saph's spreadsheet). Basically what 1 damage, 1 crit, 1 hit, 1 mp5, 1 int, 1 spirit etc will have on the damage cycles. I've been having a hard time deciding how to balance out direct damage increasers(damage, hit, crit) with implied damage increasers(int, spirit, mp5). If a ring gave 100 mp5, it'd be amazing, but not necessarily the best in every case since it's useless when you don't run out of mana. Being able to gauge the total damage differences would help.

A specific example in my case is the T4 helm and gloves vs S3 helm and gloves. The S3 comes out a little bit above the T4 stuff over all, but I lose the proc on the T4... and I'm not sure if it'd be an overall gain or not.

 

Allurissa

Quick gear question for everyone. I've been playing around with the spreadsheet trying to compare upcoming gear options so I can determine my best path and everytime I swap T4 shoulders for T5 shoulders, I lose 5 dps. This seems to happen even after both set bonuses are broken. Are T5 shoulders really a downgrade? If so, is there a different piece of recommended gear for us?

Thanks much.

PS: Thanks for the tips on playing with my casting rotations. After several dungeons and raids of trying to get MF in, I keep losing dps so I'm sticking with IS, SFx4 for now. Maybe at some point in the future (around T5 gear) I can try again.

 

Celdhyrean

It's (5 dmg +3 int) vs (1spi + 5mp5).
Maybe the difference is due to the loss of mana because it's set up for long fights ? Does seem somewhat strange though. You could try on a short (2-3 minute fight) to see if T5 is superior there.

On the macros subject, no problems for me. I'm also using Sapphiron's sheet to decide what to go for and it's also macro based. As long as i dl it from someone i consider trustable.

 

Efejel

Ok, here's a look at the definately alpha DPS comparison (and why macros are handy with this implementation).

Attached Files

Moonkin DPS - v0.75alpha.xls (541.5 KB, 95 views)

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Celdhyrean

Haste seems to be missing in the quickadd (it's in the "gear select" quickadd part but not in the "DPS comparison one").
The quick-add also got me stumped when checking on the overall stats that i had done the right inputs (that is until i saw that additional line and cleared it)

Appart from that, it seems to work well.

 

Saraya

You're losing DPS because you're missing out on the T5 shoulder's biggest gain - 15 spell hit. You are capped on spell hit, which turns the biggest damage increaser to provide a whopping gain of 0. If you shed off the extra spell hit, you shoud be getting a significant boost.

Edit:
Efejel- This additional page is EXACTLY what I wanted. Going to mess around with it more when I get home.

 

pequette

- but it missing some gems the one that only jc can use ( patch 2.2 )

- and how dps comparaison work cause i see 4 buttons but each time i clic on it i received error. i use openoffice


" a scripting framework error occured while running the basic script vnd.sun.star.script:standard.dpscomp?language=basic&location=document.

message : BasicProviderImpl::getScript: no script! "

 

Efejel

Haven't tried the DPS comparison feature in OO.o ... may have to start issuing distinct versions. :-(

All the buttons do are copy the DPS, total dmg, Time til OOM, and stats values from one column to the next, effectively storing them for comparison. Then the "quick add" section copies from the DPS sheet to the gear select sheet, generating the new numbers you can use for comparison. You can do it fairly easily manually, but even easier with the macros bound to buttons.

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

• Adoriele

A kinda bug I noticed, if you choose 'none' for your weapon, it wipes the stats for your offhand as well. Not normally an issue, but if you're using a custom weapon in the Other field, and the weapon is one-handed, you have to put the offhand in the Other field as well.

Otherwise, awesome sheet, a huge help for planning upgrades.

 

Freddie

Anyone want to take a stab at working out how useful [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium] is? My math skills are pretty poor, not really sure where to start :\

Also, adding [Studious Wraps] from the new badge gear would be nice

 

• Adoriele

Assuming no internal cooldown, 25% chance to proc = 1 proc per 4 Starfires (convenient for 1xIS/MF, 4xSF). Lasts 8 seconds out of the 12 it takes to cast those 4 Starfires means 66% uptime, or an average of 100 spell damage chain-casting SF. Adding in IS/MF would lower that a little, about 60% uptime or 89 spell damage. This is a best-case scenario where you never proc while the buff is up, as it simply refreshes the timer.

 

Benita

The biggest problem this trinket has is that its not counting for the Starfire it procs on. Meaning you can get 2 Starfires on one proc or rather the 8sec are in maybe the worst timewindow possible. (I only tested this on the 2nd patch of the PTR, not sure if it got changed after that.)
The best use for this would be to get it to proc and then cast 2 Starfires plus MF. Im not sure where it would end up, because it would interfere with steady dps rotations. Overall it seemed weaker than blue 5 man trinkets in any rotation.

 

Vauk

The way I would do it is to just add a +spell damage but only look at rotations that include MF....

IE: for MF - SFx4 just add a base 37.5 spell damage (150 * 25%).

In reality this item will give you even less because even if you crit every starfire the 4th SFs still won't land until 10 seconds which means you will never get th 4th SF into the +dmg part and for the most part you are very unlikely to get the third into the +dmg part (need 3 consecutive crits for 7.5 second third SF).


EDIT:
Suppose you have a 30% spell crit chance.

There is a 2.7% chance to crit 3 times in a row. So for 97.3% of the procs of this trinkets it will only affect the 2 Starfires directly after it.

I won't try and get it exactly but i'd get rid of the 25% chance to proc by saying it just adds 37.5 spell damage after every MF. This only happens to 2 out of 4 Starfires which on a normal rotation would be ~40-50% (6 seconds out of 13.5) of the cast time used for the entire rotation. Therefor the spell damage only applys to 40-50% of your casts so I'll use 45% to signify it only being useful for 2/4 SFs. Therefor I'd just add 16.875 spell damage.

This of course is a very very very rough estimate but it should help you take a model it in the spreadsheet. Just leave a trinket slot blank on the character sheet and add the spell damage at the bottom. For each rotation you will have to redo the math.

 

Vauk

66% uptime isn't taking into account chance to proc or the fact that the majortiy of the time that 3rd SF won't get the benifits from this. Remember that modifiers are calculated at spellcast not spellstart.

 

Vauk

I agree. Once you hit a certain gear level (and because of raid buffs) MF, SFx4 is the best rotation. A trinket would have to be truly spectacular to make it worth it for you to change rotations.

 

• Adoriele

True, but if you're at the right point in your rotation, it will affect the IS or MF you add in.
Proc on the first SF after IS/MF : Affects 2 SFs (unless you're lucky)
Proc on the second: Affects 2SFs
Proc on the third: Affects 2 SFs and an instant.
Proc on the fourth: Affects 2 SFs and an instant.

So out of the four possible (assuming no overwrites) procs, half will affect 2 of your 5 casts, half will affect 3 of your 5, or on average you'll affect half of your casts, or about 75 spell damage, depending on your luck. You could tweak it to always use the last 2 seconds (or so) to cast an instant and increase its value, but as Benita said, I'm not sure how it would affect sustained DPS, as it's not nearly as mana-efficient.

 

Efejel

So the consensus boss-trinket formula for Balance Druids seems to remain:
Darkmoon: Crusade (little movement) >= Eye of Mag > Icon otSC > Quag's Eye ~= Darkmoon: Crusade (much movement)

??

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Vauk

Can't comment on trinkets as mine are pretty mediocre but I do love the scryer bloodgem. +32 hit out a trinket slot really helps the lack of hit on tier 5.

 

Efejel

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out where to add Scryer's & the green equiv, Starkiller's Bauble. This is especially relevant since I've been spending most of my PvE time trying to nab Quag's Eye as a potential multi-purpose upgrade, but it could prove to be a trash-only upgrade (and a minor one at that).

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Benita

I would add the Sextant in between Icon and Quag, but i dont have solid theorycrafting for that claim
I banked the Darkmoon card, because in the end it was wearing off alot. You have to put in alot of effort to keep it up, and with MF/4SF it takes ages to get it up again after it wore off.
Supremus, Mother, Illidan in BT and Azgalor, Archimonde in Hyjal are problematic, thats especially bad because its 4 of the harder fights even on farming status. Finding someone fast to combatres is another reason it can run out and i havent even thought about TK/SSC fights.

Was anyone able to build a heavy crit/dmg gear with Magtheridons eye? The extra 170 damage could make it worthwhile.

 

Caliane

Mags eye is decent. personally Ill stick with nealths tear.

The new ZA trinket thats an upgraded icon will pretty much be the stanard trinket to get for balance druids. not het badge one.

 

Thermomenes

I'm pondering the effect of downranking moonfire to get the effect of the Idol of the Unseen moon.

Might be a good addition to the spreadsheet to include an option for moonfire downranking to test mana sustainability with the new idol.

 

Caliane

Why would you downrank?

Moonfire is your highest dps spell. The only problem with it, is the mana use. And given a newly improved mana regen from spirit, Im sure almost all druids will be able to afford it more.

 

lherin

Don't forget you can charge the Crusade card with Faerie Fire. I can easily get in 2-3 of these during the 'establishing aggro' phase of a fight.

While my guild is working on bloodboil, I haven't had any trouble keeping up the buff on any fights except archimonde and sometimes supremus, depending on how your guild does him. On archimonde I swap it out anyway for the pvp trinket.