Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 16

Efejel · 08/11/07, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Kellarus

Looking through those reports your big problem is the time between your starfire casts. You are pretty good about dps uptime, but most of that is your dots. You have 7 minutes of dps time on the gruul kill but only 51 starfire casts despite even having heroism. Almost always 4 if not 5 seconds between your starfires landing while you are chain casting. Downloading quartz and using stopcasting macros would be a huge help for you if its lag that is causing your low number of casts.

Lag can make a really substantial difference, especially as it interrupts rotations.

But, bear in mind this sheet is designed around predicting THEORETICAL performance. A myriad of variables are not, and for the most part cannot be, taken into account. While hopefully it can show you general trends for fight durations vs. cast cycles, provide some insight on the theoretical differences between two pieces of gear, and/or may facilitate your selection of specific buffs based on predicted outcomes, the author makes no guarantees (expressed or implied) as to the real-world application of these principals and/or the fitness of the Druid player, the tank, and/or all relevant connections. The author is also not responsible if hamsters take over France.

Kerri · 08/12/07, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Comp

I'm curious as to how accurate the spreadsheet is. I've been questioning my DPS lately as my guild starts to push with interest in progression.

Its weird, but my raid buffed DPS is lower than what the spreadsheet says I should do selfbuffed with no debuffs on the mobs by almost 170 DPS... We recently started running web stats and i was excited cause I hoped it would finally show me what exactly it was that I was handling wrong.

I don't see how self buffed no debuffs on the mob I should supposedly do ~730 dps and in raids my average is 570. My rotation is IS/SFx4 I usually dont get a shadow priest.
My self buffed stats are 948+ dmg 17% crit ( in moonkin) 135 hit rating 100mp5 (while casting) and about 8600 mana. I would really like some help getting this sorted out.

Some Stats from our attempts at Void Reaver and Gruuls Lair.
Wow Web Stats - TK: Void Reaver
Wow Web Stats - Gruul's Lair

Get quartz like everyone is saying. That program alone improved my dps by around 120~ on Dr Boom tests!

Also For the VR fight.. Wouldn't IS, MF, SFx3 be better since you do move around a lot? I pulled off 798 dps on that fight. But I also had a shadow priest which probably helped out a lot. Get a shadow priest

Nerfy · 08/12/07, 3:00 PM

Personally on VR I just spam Starfire and throw MF and IS when I have to move

Kerri · 08/13/07, 1:36 AM

Originally Posted by Nerfy

Personally on VR I just spam Starfire and throw MF and IS when I have to move

But again, look at the spreadsheet and compare straight up starfire cycle to the one I mentioned. Even try it out on dr boom. Ive spent a lot of time nuking him playing around with things

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Caliane · 08/16/07, 2:07 PM

I just wanted to add a thank you Efejel.

I was trying to do some comparisons to elem shaman, mages and looking through their spreadsheets.

The balance druid spreadsheet you made is by far the easiest to use, most complete, and accurate one.
Fantastic job on this.

Nerfy · 08/16/07, 2:35 PM

So I'm just wondering...If I'm using /stopcasting should I set me latency to 0? or .1? right now I have always left it at the default .4 but just wondering what to do now that I'm using the /stopcasting.

♦ Lorewanderer · 08/16/07, 2:48 PM

I'd put it at no lower than .1 unless you're really just that good. Human reaction times and lag still play a big role even (particularly) with /stopcasting.

I'll also add a thanks to Efejel--the refinement on your spreadsheet is unmatched. We may nitpick a bit, but it is an immense asset to the community and greatly appreciated.

The benefit of a spreadsheet that is accurate and elegantly designed is something that isn't lost on many of us.

Kerri · 08/18/07, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by Caliane

I just wanted to add a thank you Efejel.

I was trying to do some comparisons to elem shaman, mages and looking through their spreadsheets.

The balance druid spreadsheet you made is by far the easiest to use, most complete, and accurate one.
Fantastic job on this.

Yeah I agree. I tried out some other spreadsheets and nothing even compares to the moonkin one you have created. I love playing around with different gear setups with it

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Maax · 08/19/07, 5:35 AM

Has anyone done any math on [Wushoolay's Charm of Nature]? I am finding it very good for burst damage, but I don't know if it is worth using. Will the upcoming changes to spell haste make it more worthwhile to use?

In general I have been trying to figure out which trinkets are best to use (check my armory). I have [Darkmoon Card: Crusade], [Icon of the Silver Crescent], [Alchemist's Stone], [Xi'ri's Gift], [Scryer's Bloodgem], [Starkiller's Bauble]

So far I have been using:
Trash: [Wushoolay's Charm of Nature] + [Icon of the Silver Crescent]
Boss Fight: [Scryer's Bloodgem] + [Starkiller's Bauble]
Boss Fight when I get Totem of Wrath: [Darkmoon Card: Crusade] + [Alchemist's Stone]

Sometimes ill swap the stone in for boss the bauble even without the shaman there, if it is a long fight and i think ill be mana starved.

Also, for a blue socket (need to meet the meta requirements), which is better, [Glowing Nightseye] or [Dazzling Talasite]?

Another thing I am debating is meta gems, I can't desicde between insightful (12 int and mana proc), relentless (3% crit damage, though i have heard it works out to 9% for moonkin), mystical (faster starfire spam), and unstable (14 damage + stun resist).

Benita · 08/20/07, 5:35 AM

400 spellhaste is about 19% right now. If the haste changes are actually true it will become 27%, so yes it makes it more worthwhile.

A 3min cooldown trinket with only this effect however seems very situational. Any of the other trinkets would grant you a bigger longterm damage increase.

It also increases your mana problems and spellhaste has the problem of not giving any bonus to Moonfire or Insect swarm, which you both either use for a damage increase or low mana fights.

Icon and Scryer for trash as the Darkmoon card got its problems on trash where you got alot of 10 sec damage breaks. Same for any bossfight where it might drop off. Getting it up to 10 stacks again requires 2 full dps cycles, if this happens from time to time you are better off with a damage use or proc trinket.

The bauble is, if you use all of the spellhit, just about as good as the Icon (depends on your spelldamage a bit) and can be banked aswell imho.

Mana increasing trinkets and gems are also very situational. Alchemist's stone is worth 40mp5 or 8% dps of spamming starfire but only if you chainuse pots and end up with less than 1 starfire worth of mana which both is not true in real fights.
Id estimate the Icon at about a 5% damage increase (depending on your gearlevel again) which should be close to the alchemist stone even on mana starved encounters.

I would use the Icon at all times, its a really powerful and versatile trinket and then switch the scryer and darkmoon card according to the fight (its difference is however negligible until you are spellhit capped by other means, if you want to save yourself the trouble bank the card, you wont end up with alot less dps).

About the gems you can do the same calculations, its just a bit more complex. Talasite is 2.4 mp5, 1 spelldamage and some crit. Overall a 0.6% damage increase on mana starved fights. 4 spelldamage is about the same with the difference of being way better if you dont run out of mana. Plus stamina is good in alot of encounters.

The Mystical metagem doesnt work well with moonkin socket boni, they are usually yellow or blue and both can hardly be used with that metagem. Its ok if you stick to red gems only but thats a pain money and overall stats wise. 3-4% damage increase if you pick this one, but on the downside you cant get alot of socket boni or use alot of noble topaz/pyrestones anymore.
Unstable needs 3 yellow gems in your gear. Not 0-2 or 4-x. Not very friendly to gear switches or gem utility. Also only slightly better than the Swift Starfire Diamond and most likely worse due to the reduced gem choices.
Insightful is again only shining on mana starved fights and translates to 19 mp5, 3 damage and some crit (5% damage increase if you got mana problems).
Relentless depends on your critrate and casting cycles 1-3% damage increase i would guess?
Swift Starfire Diamond (runspeed and 12 spelldamage) is about a 1% damage increase (depending on how much you have to run around into casting range).

Keep in mind for metagem choices that until you reach 151 spellhit by gear, the veiled noble topaz is the best pure damage increase gem for moonkins.

For all gear choices mana income increasing gems/gear is good as long as you are 100% sure you will run out of mana. Spelldamage/crit/hit choices are always good, most likely 80% as good as the mana increasing stuff even on mana starved fights.

I hope my estimated numbers are not totally off and i could give some stat-weighing pointers. If someone wants to napkin-math through my estimates, hes welcome to do so.

Efejel · 08/21/07, 12:23 AM

On paper, [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] seems pretty good, has a relatively non-challenging gem requirement--especially if you're using orange/purple gems to pick up some +5 dmg socket bonuses--and scales better/more directly than any other gem.

Maax · 08/21/07, 5:35 AM

Playing around with different gems it would seem for a blue slot [Dazzling Talasite] > [Glowing Nightseye]. Interestingly I found that [Sparkling Star of Elune] was close behind the [Dazzling Talasite] and better than [Glowing Nightseye] if you have the improved divine spirit buff.

Kerri · 08/21/07, 12:15 PM

But that's only if you are having mana issues correct? Give me a shadow priest and Ill keep my +spell damage gems

Maax · 08/21/07, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kerri

But that's only if you are having mana issues correct? Give me a shadow priest and Ill keep my +spell damage gems

Yes that was with the shadow priest turned off, I don't usually get one

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Kerri · 08/21/07, 1:47 PM

Demand one! You should be getting one over mages.. they have gems and stuff!