Thermomenes

For boss fights that isn't true unless you have a shadow priest in your group. If people wanted to use the new idol with no S-priest in group, downranking would be the only viable sustainable option. I'm talking about incorporating MF into a casting rotation for 10 minutes at a time or more. Usually MF kills your mana at 6-8 minutes with the new spirit regen.

 

Efejel

0.72a - New version finally released, link to FileFront on first page. Will make available on first post directly soon.

v0.72a changes
-Added 2.3 projected gear from test realm - be wary of any changes made when 2.3 goes live
-Added BoP jewelcrafting gems
-Fixed various minor gear issues (typos, formatting, etc.)
-Added in-game coefficients section to "Talents" page for haste, intensity & mana spring changes
-Rings now support 1 socket each

v0.72b
-Added Chaotic Skyfire Diamond / Removed Relentless Earthstorm Diamond
-Corrected socket bonus on Illidari Shoulderpads
-Added Horseman's ring

v0.72c
-Corrected error on unbuffed mp5 with new Intensity constants
-Corrected stats for Mask of Primal Power & Robes of Oblivion
-Fixed incorrect text on Potent/Veiled Flame Spessarite

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Valamere

Cool, a new version is up!

Found at least one bug, unfortunately. Illidari Shoulderpads are listed as giving a +4sta bonus, whereas on my screen I'm seeing +4dmg bonus.

[Edit:] Also, there's no ring option for the new addition from the Headless Horseman, "The Horseman's Signet Ring"

Thanks for all your time and effort. The spreadsheet helps me a lot!

 

Efejel

D'oh. Ok, updated locally & will be applied in future versions. You can edit your local copy (directions somewhere in this thread... maybe I'll find those and link them to the first post) or just add an "item" in the custom section that's -4 stam & +4 dmg.

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Valamere

Yep. I've found it easiest to fix stuff on those three slots on the bottom. I figure it'd be nice to let you know what I'm editing, though, as long as you're putting in the time to make all this stuff.

 

Axanor

This is kind of a nooby question, but since I've had horrendous luck on the Moongoddess Idol so far, I never really thought about swapping Idols. When setting up a Idol swap macro, would it simply be

/equip Wrath Idol
/cast Wrath

with a Starfire and Moonfire equivalent? Or is there something else I would need to do to make it work correctly.

 

tech5621

Efejel,

It appears that when you turn on the "Super Mana Potion" option under the Mana Regeneration Calculation its not properly calculating it into the fight. The other potions seem to be working properly though.

On a second note, thanks so much for your effort in creating this great tool. This thread and your worksheet are literally my Moonkin Bible.

 

Maax

Change it to:

and it will work just fine. If you equip before the cast it will cause an extra global cooldown.

Devs: Our nerfs will block out the sun!
Druids: Then we will tank in the shade.

 

Caliane

Chaotic Skyfire Diamond - Items - World of Warcraft

Chaotic skyfire diamond needs to be added.
This 3% to crit damage does work with spell crit.

I dont think I can manually add that.

 

Ruanur

Anyone else use lootzor.com - World of Warcraft search and rate items - profile your wow character Was wondering what kinda ratings everyone else uses.

 

◊ Lorewanderer

I do use Lootzor. At my level of gear the lack of haste rating in the ratings isn't very important. It becomes more so once you hit t6 content.

These values are for a raid buffed, not hit capped, Moonkin. Based off a 7 min fight with battle rez and Innervate going to another character.

With a shadow priest:
Sta: 4
Int: 6
Spi: 1.1
Mp5: 10
Spell Crit: 6.5
Spell Damage: 10 (or for 2.3 use Damage 6.7/healing 3.3)

I also factor in Armor sometimes, between .05 and .2 depending on my role.


Without a Shadow Priest
Sta: 4.5
Int: 12
Spirit: 1.5
Mp5: 35
Spell Crit: 5
Spell Hit: 8.2
Damage: 10 (6.7/healing 3.3 for patch 2.3)


That's for a build without Intensity. Pre-2.3 the value for Spirit is still pretty low even with the talent. After the patch it won't be drastically much higher.

 

Efejel

Just so folks know, I am keeping an eye on this thread (as if there could be any doubt!). Hopefully a letter increment to add the Chaotic Skyfire & fix the socket bonus & fix mana pots will be coming later during the week.

Also, it's looking like what I posted as 0.75alpha will be getting a bit more ratings type stuff (courtesy in large part to the work of Lorewander) and will be coming out as 0.80 at about the same time as 2.3 goes live (whenever that may be).

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

pequette

november 13th
2.3 live server
so it mean 1 week .. stress ?? :P

 

Efejel

Well, I'd prefer to delay the release until AFTER 2.3 by a little while, so we can make sure we're not missing anything and nothing is changed from PTR. I'll target Nov 17, since I have a wedding to attend (not my own...) on the 18th.

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Tublade

Hi there,

I have 2 questions I hope can be answered here. My apologies if the answer is already in this thread, I have tried to read through everything but might have missed it.

1. I am raiding BT and MH at the moment as only Moonkin. Last raid we had 3 mages in the raid as well. Normally I am in the group with a Shadowpriest, an Elemental Shaman, 2 Mages and me, the Moonkin. There was a discussion though that it might be better to exchange the Moonkin for the 3rd Mage and put me in another group. I feel that 2 mages + 1 moonkin >> 3 mages, but I have no theroycrafting 'proof' for that. It seems so logical, but I would like some reasoning that this is indeed true (or not). Can anyone direct me to some theroycrafting about optimal group setup (2 mages + moonkin vs 3 mages, DPS wise for the group)?

2. I have been reading that spell haste is bad for Druids. I feel it might be pretty good, but again no theory behind it. I am pretty bad at this, so is there any reason to take or not take +haste gear? For example the [Belt of the Crescent Moon]; is this an upgrade against [Starfire Waistband] or [Girdle of Ruination]? Or should I still get the [Belt of Blasting]? Spending DKP on the MH drop seems a waste, if spell haste is not something I should be stacking...

Thanks for any advice here, sorry if I asked something for the xx'd time .
Cheers!

 

Caanrial

I salute you for the obvious amount of blood/sweat/tears/time you have invested into creating this spreadsheet. Alune be praised!
(Ok, that was kinda corny...it won't happen again. I promise.)

I carefully entered all my gear using the WoW Armory page for my toon and adding the needed modifications at the bottom of the gear tab for such items as the Headless Horseman ring which isn't yet in the drop-down list.

When I get to the final tab and view the unbuffed character values and compare them to the Armory values, I find that they are almost consistently 18 points lower in the spreadsheet (ss) (i.e. int=491 in armory but 473 in ss; stamina=431/413; spirit=270/252). But, spell hit rating is the same. MP5 is 68 in armory but 66 in ss. Spell damage is the weird one: armory says 788 but ss says 805.

What could I have overlooked? Or, are the Armory calculations perhaps incorrect? I zero'd out the blue fields on the Wep Swaps tab since I don't generally do that.

Next question: why is Insect Storm included in the cast cycle and damage calcs when I entered zero for that talent? I would assume that the talent tab is read during the calculation and would "know" that no IS is possible in my case, and should ignore that when calculating the maximum damage spell rotation. No matter how I wrangle it, the Cast Cycle always says "IS,SFx4" is my best average DPS and I think it can't possibly be since I don't have the IS talent.

A final question: is IS really that much better than MF in dmg over time? Talent points are so precious...

Once again, thank you for this awesome bit of work!

 

Efejel

While a group of 5 with 3 mages + Shadow + Elem might be the better group of 5, overall it's probably better for the raid for you to be getting the spell hit/crit/dmg from the Elem Shaman & all that mana from the Shadow Priest. Outside of that group, your own DPS will likely take a much bigger hit than the DPS gain for the currently-left-out mage.

"Never, ever, avoid items simply because they have spell haste. In a worst case scenario, spell haste means you'll be standing around doing absolutely nothing for a fraction of the time you used to be standing around hoping your spell didn't get interrupted by an AOE silence or the need to reposition or one of 100 other things (esp. in PvP).

Picking up spell haste = no change in the WORST case. (Assuming your threat meter works)."

Mark of the Wild?


IS is just so good that it's assumed for damage cycle calculations. I suppose I can try and add checking of the talent page...

Glad to help.

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Caliane

1. Do you have destruction locks?
IF you do, balancedruid, elem shaman, desto lock, destro lock, destro lock.
The have mage, mage, mage, spriest, resto shaman in g2.

The locks will get the most use of the crit and hit, while the spreist gets little from crit, and the locks gte little from the mana regen.

2. haste is bad for druid.
Ok, thats not true. Its not that haste is bad, its that damage, hit and crit are a bit better. crit being the closest. In an infinate mana situation, 1 haste rating is probably a bit better theoretical dps then 1 crit rating. But thoery and practice arent the same. Crit gives you more damage per mana. haste doesnt.
Haste doesnt effect mf, wrath, or IS. Crit effects mf, wrath and sf.

The second part of the equation isnt a theortical one. Its an itemazatoin one.

Compare the hyjal cresent moon belt. 53 damage/healing 2.3% spell haste with lunar guidance and imp spirit buff.
Starfire waistband from heroic badges, 67 damage/healing, 1.2% crit, 6mp/5, with lunar guidance, a 12 spell damage gem, and 6dam/5crit gem.

Theres no contest. The damage/crit from the socketed badge belt is far superiour. same with belt of blasting or anetherions noose. The haste belt doesnt compare regardless of haste, becuase it has no sockets.


Haste is a good option, after you are hit capped, and if getting the haste isnt coming at the price of other stats. The trash ring for example. Is better then ring of the captured storms if you are hit capped.



Now, for you specifically. We just picked up an elem shaman for our guild. This will give me 4% hit as Ill run with that shaman, that I didnt have before. I was hit capped with 157 hit in fact, more then I needed, and with a bonus 4%, 50 hit rating more then I need. So we would be in a similar situation.
I suggest anetherions noose, and ring of ancient knowledge. Belt of blastings key use is the hit rating. If you have an elem shaman, you should be able to get hit easily, and the noose is one of the best item upgrades for that slot over blasting.


I personally will be getting the spell haste badge offhand till I get rage winterchill offhand. I will be switching my ring of captured storms for the haste trash ring.
And will be getting the spell haste cape as soon as I figure out where its from..

 

Allurissa

Thanks for the info on spell haste. I was wondering about how useful it would really be to me.

Question on trinkets. When I plug in either Darkmoon Card (Wrath or Crusade) or the Lightning Capacitor, I get a DPS decrease, but these also aren't in the list of trinkets known to be working.

What I'm trying to figure out is if I really should be going for that Eye of Magtheridon to replace my Scryer's Bloodgem or if I should be finding those Darkmoon Cards. Anyone have any real world experience with them? I'd be interested in finding out for sure what my best upgrade options for trinkets are. (Note: My other trinket is the Icon of the Silver Crescent or on mana heavy fights, the Alchemist Stone)

Thanks Efejel for all your hard work. I've looked at some of those other spreadsheets and they don't even compare in ease of use and completeness to ours. You rock!!

 

Caanrial

Yep, I had 5/5 Mark of the Wild selected. Still coming up with same 18 point difference. Any other ideas what it might be?

Well, I can respec and yank a point from Brambles and put it in IS. But, will I be able to train the spell up to the max value since I've never had it before and I'm level 70 now? I've seen that a lot of feral spells prevent me from training them since I don't have the lower versions and my level is too high...I'm prolly screwed now huh?

 

• Adoriele

Yes, you can train max rank IS any time you have the talent. Otherwise respeccing even once would take away the ability to ever use the spell.

 

Xantcha

Serious?

There is no way you can lock yourself out of any of the spells.
You can train lower level skills/spells no matter how high you are.

 

• Adoriele

Well, technically you can lock yourself out of Growl and Maul if you skip the Bear Form quest, but train Dire Bear Form, as they are are granted at the end of the quest, but that's a rather special case in all senses of the word.

 

Benita

Trinkets are discussed at more than one point in this thread, the search function should help you there. Some trinkets cannot be theorycrafted in a spreadsheet as their mechanics are sometimes very complicated when you try to boil it down to an equasion. You would have to guess its average spelldamage value or dps increase and add it manually.

The Wrath card wasnt mentioned i think and for a good reason. If you ever exceed 15% crit its worse for pve than any reputation reward, +healing trinket (in 2.3) or 5 man drop you can find. Im not sure you can have less than 15% crit as a moonkin even in green items.

 

Tublade

First of all, thanks for the feedback! It brings up some other questions though .

I would expect that mages don't really need that shadow priest (they have other ways to get more mana), and Moonkin does. Which class benefits mostly from 5% extra crit? if it's the lock then should a group like balancedruid, spriest, elemshaman, lock, lock not be best? Or do mages get much more out of the elemshaman buffs then a lock does?


How so? I see myself as a mage without the CC capacity of Sheeping but with a 5% crit aura. I DPS as much or more than a mage. So the difference between putting a mage or a moonkin in the group you mentioned, is that the other 4 people in the group (2 mages, a shaman and a spriest) get 5% extra crit or not. I would say that the moonkin is the better choice then? I'd like to understand how you come to the conclusion that a group of 5 with 3 mages + Shadow + Elem might be the better group of 5.


Hmm? Haste doesn't effect MF, Wrath or SF? How so?