But seriously, it seems to be an error that increases the estimated cast times as your non-crit, non-miss increases for both Starfire & Wrath. This is because of my attempts to model the belief that crit% is static, and not a fraction of spells that hit, but a fraction of all spells--which I still haven't seen data to support one way or another. But, I digress.
I'm not properly penalizing spell miss in the cast time calculations. I'll get that sorted out & repost soon.
Changed calculations of estimated cast times to properly penalize spell miss. Most settings will show a SLIGHT DPS DROP as a result of these changes.
Cloaks now available on gear select.
Apologies for sidetracking the thread, but it seemed as good a place as any to ask this.
Suppose moonkin druids are typically limited by threat rather than mana. It is said that only 50% of amount-healed is converted into threat,.
My question:
-Assuming it is a single-target encounter, I hypothesize it would be viable to "trim" your threat by spending some time healing raid members. Perhaps this would allow a healer to throw down a nuke or two, but let's not assume that.
-How would you theorize this hypothesis? That is, if you are nuking at n% of your potential DPS due to a threat limit, how much time spent healing will reduce your potential DPS to the point that it matches your actual DPS? More trickily, how would you tie this proportion of DPS-to-Healing into the amount of +spellpower and/or +spellcrit you have?
I haven't actually done the math to back it up, but I'm going to say with the upcoming patch we'll be decidedly less threat limited and more mana limited with the changes to shadow priests and the addition of balance spells to subtlety.
I haven't actually done the math to back it up, but I'm going to say with the upcoming patch we'll be decidedly less threat limited and more mana limited with the changes to shadow priests and the addition of balance spells to subtlety.
The consumables change is also going to be huge in making mana a limiting factor moreso/again. Very few Balance Druids are actually going to "require" 5 pts (or more than 2, for that matter) in Subtlety, unless they can't get BoSalv and/or are putting up with a poor tank.
Originally Posted by Nobbynob Littlun
My question:
-Assuming it is a single-target encounter, I hypothesize it would be viable to "trim" your threat by spending some time healing raid members. Perhaps this would allow a healer to throw down a nuke or two, but let's not assume that.
-How would you theorize this hypothesis? That is, if you are nuking at n% of your potential DPS due to a threat limit, how much time spent healing will reduce your potential DPS to the point that it matches your actual DPS? More trickily, how would you tie this proportion of DPS-to-Healing into the amount of +spellpower and/or +spellcrit you have?
It's a pretty complex question that you can consider this way:
1) What's the most TPS I can put out before I surpass the tank, or risk surpassing the tank with a string of crits? (Note: If you're ~50 TPS below the tank, by 2 minutes into the fight you'll be practically incapable of pulling aggro on a crit chain.)
2) Generating my maximum TPS (wait 10 sec, tank's TPS - 50 for 2 minutes, then my TPS exactly the same as the tank) how much mana would I end the fight with?
3) How much healing can I do with that mana?
As mentioned, the consumables, shadow priest, and subtlety changes are likely going to skew things in favor of DPSing 100% of the time.
Finally got a copy of excel to check the spreadsheet out.
Im no expert on spreadsheets.
But for modeling t4 2pc, its based on offensive casts, so the mana regen would have to be tied to the cast rotation. 5% per cast of the rotation.
Btw, its been a long long time since I was in high school or college statistics.
With 95% chance to hit with spells, what is the chances of not missing out of 100 casts?
Oh, and, What exactly am I suppsed to enter for mp/5?
Mp/5 from gear? or mp/5 while casting as shown on the char sheet which includes intensity mp/5?
Apologies for sidetracking the thread, but it seemed as good a place as any to ask this.
Suppose moonkin druids are typically limited by threat rather than mana. It is said that only 50% of amount-healed is converted into threat,.
My question:
-Assuming it is a single-target encounter, I hypothesize it would be viable to "trim" your threat by spending some time healing raid members. Perhaps this would allow a healer to throw down a nuke or two, but let's not assume that.
-How would you theorize this hypothesis? That is, if you are nuking at n% of your potential DPS due to a threat limit, how much time spent healing will reduce your potential DPS to the point that it matches your actual DPS? More trickily, how would you tie this proportion of DPS-to-Healing into the amount of +spellpower and/or +spellcrit you have?
If this question doesnt make sense, let me know.
The threat issues balance face are less overall aggro issues, and more aggro during sensetive times.
Things like nightbane where he drops aggro, or the first 30 seconds of tghe fight where chain crits will cause you to pull.
I haven't looked at any warrior threat spreadsheets, but from experiance I would suspect 1100 threat per second is probably normal?
Under normal dps conditions I dont really have to hold back. its just the first few seconds, if I crit too much, or on deaggro fights.
Although I might have to reconsider that statement under the effects of extra mana regen from priests, manatide. Unlimited mana supply might make aggro and issue that Im not really seeing atm.
The only way a warrior can maintain over 1k TPS is as a fury DPS warrior, Prot tanks really can't manage that right now, 900 or lower is a better estimate.
The chance to never miss out of 100 casts with 95% hit/crit is going to be .95^100 = .59% That's in the realm of nearly impossible.
Im no expert on spreadsheets.
But for modeling t4 2pc, its based on offensive casts, so the mana regen would have to be tied to the cast rotation. 5% per cast of the rotation.
Oh, and, What exactly am I suppsed to enter for mp/5?
Mp/5 from gear? or mp/5 while casting as shown on the char sheet which includes intensity mp/5?
Yeah, both JoW & T4 2 pc. (and the mana restore meta gem for that matter) are going to be rotation specific. I (possibly) need to redesign the spreadsheet to model them entirely accurately. To a lesser extent, spellsurge & Bangle procs also fall into the "rotation specific effect" category.
The mp5 is supposed to be what your character sheet shows. It then checks intensity & dreamstate talents to figure out how much those two talents are contributing (which will change with your buffs) & assumes the rest is from your gear.
The only way a warrior can maintain over 1k TPS is as a fury DPS warrior, Prot tanks really can't manage that right now, 900 or lower is a better estimate.
The chance to never miss out of 100 casts with 95% hit/crit is going to be .95^100 = .59% That's in the realm of nearly impossible.
Right of course. I zoned out when considering the 1100 or so dps I needed to do to pull and forgot to consdier the 130% bubble for ranged dps.
Which would have left that number around 850 threat per second.
Consider a 20 sided die (D20). Roll it once (or choose any number from 1-20). Now roll it 100 more times without that number coming up again. That's your odds of going 100 casts without a miss with only 95% hit.
Mathematically, it's expressed as 0.95^100 (or 95 to the 100th power), which works out to 0.0059205292203340254829249648824032, or ~0.592%.
Updated items to reflect 2.1 changes
Added Neck & Rings
Added Nature/Arcane specific items (including Spellfire)
Added new items & gems -- SPELL HASTE ITEMS HAVE HASTE IGNORED NO MECHANICS CHANGES - If you don't want to use gear select, you don't need to download this version
Additional to do:
Figure out how to properly incorporate spell haste.
It's starting to look like the massive spell rotation set-up needs to be done to get everything working properly. I'm not sure I care enough at this point. Anyone interested in taking this up should contact me by PM for suggestions!
Seems that whenever I try to use the Windscale Hood on the 'Gear Select' tab, it errors out and replaces all values with #N/A.
Thanks, I'm glad you like it. To fix this error (sorry about uploading the sheet with one!) go to "Insert"-->"Name"-->"Define", choose "Helm_Socks_Table" and change "='Helm Sockets'!$A$2:$P$38" to "='Helm Sockets'!$A$2:$P$40" (change the 38 --> 40).
I am basically using this spreadsheet as a stepping stone to switching my main from an SSC/Eye raiding warrior to a Balance druid, does that count as lavish praise? Please keep up the great work, and continue to stay in touch with the community in case blizzard decides to buff us into what we deserve to be, I want you to be the at the forefront.
Great stuff, keep it up!
I have a question about Spellsurge implementaion. Can u add another weapon with it and calculate swapping every minute? Calculate with a few casts (lets say 4-6 in average) to get the proc, then swap back to nuker wep. Depends on spellsurge weapon ofc, but it lowers your DPS for sure. Ntm GCD on swap, lol.
I am basically using this spreadsheet as a stepping stone to switching my main from an SSC/Eye raiding warrior to a Balance druid, does that count as lavish praise? Please keep up the great work, and continue to stay in touch with the community in case blizzard decides to buff us into what we deserve to be, I want you to be the at the forefront.
Wow, thanks. I'm sort of keeping up with things, even if maybe I shouldn't. LOL @ Eyonix posting about his moonkin. He started it, when, a year ago? I thought December, but check out this bluetracker: http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/28355824.htm
Just now 62! Balance is clearly fine, L2P.
Originally Posted by pluhi
Great stuff, keep it up!
I have a question about Spellsurge implementaion. Can u add another weapon with it and calculate swapping every minute? Calculate with a few casts (lets say 4-6 in average) to get the proc, then swap back to nuker wep. Depends on spellsurge weapon ofc, but it lowers your DPS for sure. Ntm GCD on swap, lol.
The best approach would be to manually do a weighted average of the two weapons, and input it as a "custom" weapon. For instance, say I had a Gavel of Unearthed Secrets with Spellsurge (hey, I do!) and a Nathrezim Mindblade with +40 dmg (I wish...). If I used my Gavel ~25% and the Mindblade ~75%:
Just noticing in the .68 version that for Inscription of the Orb it is listed as +13dmg when it should be +13crit.
Good catch. To fix this, go to Format > Sheet > Unhide (Show in OOo calc), choose "Shoulder Enchants" (OK) and change the appropriate columns. (Will fix now so future versions have this correct, but not re-uploading for such a tiny fix!) Format > Sheet > Hide when you're finished.
in your sheet my STARTING MANA is 8185 (unbuffed)
My maximum mana in real is 7805
on both sheets says int 381
_____________________________________________________________________________________ __
advice:
Put in "read me" sheet your name and where you find this sheet. (this forum). So if i send this sheet to someone else he knows where to find the sheet.
Can you also explain what "weapon swaps" sheet is for?
-Primary weapon can get the information from gear select
First i am missing 1 ring that i am using: Treebole's Hoop
I didn't include too many green quality items, especially for jewelry. That's a pretty decent ring though, so I'll add it in for future versions.
To add your own items:
Format > Sheet > Unhide (Show in OOo calc)
Select the sheet with the item you wish to add
Insert a row SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE (after the first item & before the last--this is to make sure it falls within the named regions used on the gear select page)
Input the stats for the item
If you wish, you can re-sort the items. Make sure you select all rows & columns -- if done correctly, the region name will show up just below the font ("Ring_Table" here). You want the column you're sorting by to be the "highlighted" column--here it's Column A, item name. Click the "AZ↓" button. Viola.
If you add items with an associated "Socket" page, you'll need to add them there as well. A quick glance there should help you figure out what you need to do!
By the sheet it says that my (projected char sheets values unbuffed) mp5 is 110.
But i know in real it is much higher.
if i look at my profile in armor : http://armory.wow-europe.com/charact...ong&n=Thalosar
It says +256 mp5 out of combat and 121 in combat.
The value given on my sheet is your in-combat mp5 only. However, when I input your items (and enchants) I get 121 on the sheet.
in your sheet my STARTING MANA is 8185 (unbuffed)
My maximum mana in real is 7805
on both sheets says int 381
With MotW I'm seeing 8075 on Armory & 8470 on the sheet. Sorry, but this is a known error. If anyone can figure out what the fuck Blizzard is using to calculate our in game mana, I'd appreciate letting me in on the secret. For some reason our "base mana" of 2470 + (int * 15) doesn't work. But I'll be damned if I know any reason it should be anything else.
advice:
Put in "read me" sheet your name and where you find this sheet. (this forum). So if i send this sheet to someone else he knows where to find the sheet.
Can you also explain what "weapon swaps" sheet is for?
-Primary weapon can get the information from gear select
Good advice on the "Read Me" linking back to here & taking some credit. I'll be sure and do that.
Weapon Swaps is for those who use separate weapons at the start of the fight (a "high int" weapon) and for innervate. Originally I was going to calculate the actual DPS differences of the different weapons and calculate the appropriate penalties, but I ran out of momentum before accomplishing this. Now they're simply used for calculating the additional mana to start with, and the additional mana gained during self-innervates.
Last edited by Efejel : 06/06/07 at 1:34 AM.
Reason: Wrong image used
All "relevant" talents implemented (including HotW, SotF, Nat Perfection, LS)
Limited support for more mana restore effects (incl. T4 set bonus & IED meta gem)
--Updated Spellsurge handling (now as 1 PPM per enchant, should behave similarly to previous implementation)
Added Trinkets, Weapons, Off-hands to gear select page
--GEAR SELECT NOW "COMPLETE"
Improved "Read me"
Added space for "custom" items
Fixed reported errors
Any chance you could model the new Darkmoon cards? I just picked up crusade, and for now I am putting it in as a flat 80 damage but it would be cool to model it for real.
05/20/07, 1:09 AM
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