Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 2

Lambach · 05/08/07, 4:16 PM

None of the Dmg trinks(quags eye, nexus horn) seem to have any effect on the calculated dps.

Also, the dps calcutated agrees with my old theory about spell choice which the other forum on moonkin dps debunked. Have you read that thread at all, and have any idea why the diffencences between your math and theirs exist? Did you use different equations in determining the dps?

Efejel · 05/10/07, 6:59 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

I assume you're not including Moonfire crit in the calculations for Natures Grace procs.
Damage_Calcs W2: =(((3.5-(0.1*Starlight_W))+Latency))*(Sf_p)*(Sf_p)

Yeah, I'm not. I'll definitely consider looking at that before I get to a version I'm willing to call 1.x. It's going to be a very very slight boost to DPS of the two Starfire + Moonfire cycles.

Originally Posted by Lambach

None of the Dmg trinks(quags eye, nexus horn) seem to have any effect on the calculated dps.

Also, the dps calcutated agrees with my old theory about spell choice which the other forum on moonkin dps debunked. Have you read that thread at all, and have any idea why the diffencences between your math and theirs exist? Did you use different equations in determining the dps?

They greyed out selections are features I hope to implement later, or would love for others to help me implement. This includes some set bonuses & trinkets, etc.

I'll try and find what you're talking about as far as "old theory about spell choice which the other forum ... debunked" but if you mean Wrath vs. Starfire vs. complex rotations, the simple answer is that fight duration, raid & consumable buffs, and exact gear selection make appreciable differences there. That was one of the things I hoped this tool would demonstrate, is that selecting the correct spell rotation can lead to noticeable DPS differences.

EDIT: I'd bet you're talking about this: http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.p...061#post331061
And, yeah, the spreadsheet will show that Wrath spam + Moonfire is excellent DPS in certain situations. Those situations just don't commonly occur in 25-man raid boss fights. No arcane dmg specific gear, essentially unlimited mana, frequent Stormstrike debuff application, weak and/or lacking Curse of Shadow, Misery, JoW (which I need to model better) on the target, high latency... not impossible, but highly specific. Change any one~two~three of those factors slightly and the picture can change pretty greatly as well.

Balance Druid DPS, when done "correctly", isn't actually all that boring--at least not to me.

Efejel · 05/15/07, 1:01 AM

Version 0.66 notes:

SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH OOo (Open Office.org) calc
8 "primary" slots have gear selection implemented. Cloaks, jewelry, weapons coming soon.
Tier 4 4pc & Gladiator 4 pc implemented
Corrected error that was causing Innervate to penalize ALL mp5 instead of Intensity based mp5
Added support for 1/2 Improved DS Priest buff------seriously. Not sure this was worth the 30 seconds it took, but I wanted to get rid of one box of red text

P.S.-Things that I would find helpful:
1) Suggestions on modeling Quag's Eye, Shiffar's Nexus Horn (possibly tied in with #2 below...)
2) Assistance in implementing a spell-cycle similar to the one found in the Shadow Priest DPS spreadsheet
3) Suggestions/assistance modeling JoW (which will probably extend nicely to the T4 2 pc. bonus)

♦ Lorewanderer · 05/15/07, 8:51 PM

For those of us with nasty latency or other considerations (always keeping IS up, for one), would you be willing to include an IS, SFx3 rotation as well?

I find myself using that, sometimes with down ranked SF, on fights where I am needed on healing for a portion of the fight but want to do something more than just stand there for the other portions.

It might also help people whose gear is particularly bad (or those in more heal-oriented gear).

Efejel · 05/15/07, 11:57 PM

Sure... do you overwrite the last tick(s) of IS in order to ensure it never drops off, or is your latency bad enough that's not usually a problem? (If so... :-o )

♦ Lorewanderer · 05/16/07, 3:10 AM

My latency isn't that bad usually. I try to take a little breather and get a tic of spirit regen in the middle of the first SF cast.

So it goes

00 IS
03- SF
06- SF
09- SF
12 IS ...

with 6 seconds (minus lag, plus .5 s if the previous one crit) between IS casting and paying mana for the fist in the next cycle, allowing a slight bit of regen if I'm lucky. Or am I off base?

Boevis · 05/16/07, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Lorewanderer

My latency isn't that bad usually. I try to take a little breather and get a tic of spirit regen in the middle of the first SF cast.

So it goes

00 IS
03- SF
06- SF
09- SF
12 IS ...

with 6 seconds (minus lag, plus .5 s if the previous one crit) between IS casting and paying mana for the fist in the next cycle, allowing a slight bit of regen if I'm lucky. Or am I off base?

That's actually a pretty interesting idea...

IS/MF cast, initiating the FSR, but the GCD lasts another 1.5+Lag seconds, and a talented-but-not-NG'd Starfire is 3 seconds, so 4.5 seconds + lag before the server would register you casting another spell and restart the FSR. If I understand you correctly, you wait another ~1 second after the IS/MF to get a normal mana regen tic in before the starfire actually casts.

This is highly conditional though, if your regen tic doesn't occur soon enough, you end up waiting far too long and lose a lot of DPS. There's also the issue that if all you are doing is IS SFx3 every 12 seconds, this is a pretty poor DPS rotation by itself unless you take advantage of NG to add a wrath or MF, which you can't really do here because you are taking a good chunk of time waiting for the regen tic. There's also the issue that this cycle is really easy on the mana, as such waiting for the regen really shouldn't be necessary even with low end gear ... maybe in Kara where you aren't likely to get more than 3 useful buffs (Int, BoW, DS or VT)

Efejel · 05/16/07, 12:41 PM

That actually doesn't seem that bad. Probably similar to my no-consumables and/or crappy buffs rotation of IS:SF(rank6)x4 in terms of total DPS & mana efficiency, with the advantage of never missing IS ticks (and the debuff for the sake of the tank/tank's healers) but the disadvantage of relying on manual timing of the starfire following the IS. I'll look at trying to model it.

Bezu · 05/16/07, 12:59 PM

It seems weird that spell hit has almost no effect on DPS, in some cases more +hit gives you less dps =S

If this is true I will take the 2 points out of balance of power and change all my spell hit gear for crit =P

Boevis · 05/16/07, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bezu

It seems weird that spell hit has almost no effect on DPS, in some cases more +hit gives you less dps =S

If this is true I will take the 2 points out of balance of power and change all my spell hit gear for crit =P

That can't be correct, more +hit will never reduce your DPS, at worst it will return a 0% change when you reach the 16% cap vs level +3 mobs. There's an error with the spreadsheet if you're ever getting a reduction from increasing stats.

Efejel · 05/16/07, 1:50 PM

Please provide screenshots of what you're seeing here, so I can troubleshoot it.

Bezu · 05/16/07, 2:04 PM

Check the "starfire only" box

With 0% hit, no buffs and "infite mana"

With insane amount of hit%

Efejel · 05/16/07, 2:16 PM

I blame Caliane.

But seriously, it seems to be an error that increases the estimated cast times as your non-crit, non-miss increases for both Starfire & Wrath. This is because of my attempts to model the belief that crit% is static, and not a fraction of spells that hit, but a fraction of all spells--which I still haven't seen data to support one way or another. But, I digress.

I'm not properly penalizing spell miss in the cast time calculations. I'll get that sorted out & repost soon.

Efejel · 05/16/07, 2:40 PM

Version 0.67

Changed calculations of estimated cast times to properly penalize spell miss. Most settings will show a SLIGHT DPS DROP as a result of these changes.
Cloaks now available on gear select.

Nobbynob Littlun · 05/19/07, 7:53 PM

Apologies for sidetracking the thread, but it seemed as good a place as any to ask this.

Suppose moonkin druids are typically limited by threat rather than mana. It is said that only 50% of amount-healed is converted into threat,.

My question:

-Assuming it is a single-target encounter, I hypothesize it would be viable to "trim" your threat by spending some time healing raid members. Perhaps this would allow a healer to throw down a nuke or two, but let's not assume that.

-How would you theorize this hypothesis? That is, if you are nuking at n% of your potential DPS due to a threat limit, how much time spent healing will reduce your potential DPS to the point that it matches your actual DPS? More trickily, how would you tie this proportion of DPS-to-Healing into the amount of +spellpower and/or +spellcrit you have?

If this question doesnt make sense, let me know.