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09/25/07, 6:17 AM
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#286
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Dentarg (EU)
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Your spriests sucked because you only brought one warlock btw. And hes running some weird specc, altho i must admit i dont know every viable warlock specc out there.
No Malediction on Curse of Shadows is also lowering your own dps, so go poke your gleader till he brings more warlocks to the raids or recruits more if you dont have them
3 warlocks, 2 mages rather than 1 warlock 4 mages would mean the imp shadowbolt debuff stays up way longer and im guessing it would be as much as 10% more spriest damage if not more in this fight because the only warlock is running around in crit gimped FR gear.
Your hunters i hope are holding back due to MDs, because their damage is way too low. I also searched for Sunder or Expose Armor, theres none. Thats gimping your physical damage dealt considerably and is a major screwup. 3 Faerie Fires in the whole fight says alot aswell.
If you feel altruistic you could apply that, even if its not talented.
In that fight i bet you wouldve seen a raiddps increase in using Imp FF. Your highest dps rogue runs with 20.47% total hit, he would gain full effect on his white damage then, which is 60%. 3% of 60% means with his 700dps an increase of 14dps on one person alone, 3 Talent points well spent.
Your guild needs pDebufflist in my opinion and someone willing to get on the debuff appliers nerves.
2 less mages and 1 less hunter, 1 spriest and 2 warlocks in for that. If you do that you can even run with 7 not 8 healers i bet and increase the total dps further.
Long story short: Yes, your dps is very good for your gearlevel, you could however switch to more raiddps with giving up some of your own. Yes, your other dps sucks more than it needs to, mostly due to debuffs and raid setup. The raid setup i can only tell you whats wrong with it, i wouldnt know how your guild is structured, if changes are possible and so on.
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09/26/07, 2:42 AM
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#287
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
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I no longer have an active account at all, so could use some help confirming what I've gathered from this thread, the official patch notes and MMO-champion.
Pending spreadsheet changes for 2.2:
15.75 spell haste rating = 1% speed (improved from 22 = 1%)
[Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] now correctly only gives 3% addt'l damage on crit, regardless of talents
[Marshal's Silk Cuffs] now have "correct" 12 crit rating in game
Other changes?!?!? - Please let me know
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"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut
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09/26/07, 4:20 AM
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#288
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Glass Joe
Tauren Shaman
Burning Blade
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Hey. I'm not sure this is exactly the right spot to post this, but as I don't really know too much about Balance druids I was wondering if any of you could help me out. My guild has recently started putting the screws to people in terms of making sure they are PvE specced/geared up for 25 man content. It has paid off for us, as we downed Mag tonight in our first round of attempts since nearly 2 months ago. However, I was disturbed to see that our lowest DPSer was our token Moonkin, clocking in at only 515 DPS.
Here is his WWS and here is his Armory. It looks like to me that he really needs to invest in spell hit, by picking up either some Kara pieces or some blue gear that has a good amount of it, and if he's still not at the cap, regemming for spell hit (he also needs to get Improved Faerie Fire, but that's a different topic). After he's at the hit cap, should he focus on spell crit or spell damage? Also, it looks like he cast a mix of Starfire/Wrath, is there one spell that is clearly better or is there a cast rotation? For clarification, he was in a group with a Shaman dropping WoA and Mana Spring/Mana Tide, and a shadowpriest, so I doubt he was having mana problems.
Thanks in advance for any tips provided.
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09/26/07, 2:46 PM
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#289
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Skullcrusher
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Originally Posted by darist
Hey. I'm not sure this is exactly the right spot to post this, but as I don't really know too much about Balance druids I was wondering if any of you could help me out. My guild has recently started putting the screws to people in terms of making sure they are PvE specced/geared up for 25 man content. It has paid off for us, as we downed Mag tonight in our first round of attempts since nearly 2 months ago. However, I was disturbed to see that our lowest DPSer was our token Moonkin, clocking in at only 515 DPS.
Here is his WWS and here is his Armory. It looks like to me that he really needs to invest in spell hit, by picking up either some Kara pieces or some blue gear that has a good amount of it, and if he's still not at the cap, regemming for spell hit (he also needs to get Improved Faerie Fire, but that's a different topic). After he's at the hit cap, should he focus on spell crit or spell damage? Also, it looks like he cast a mix of Starfire/Wrath, is there one spell that is clearly better or is there a cast rotation? For clarification, he was in a group with a Shaman dropping WoA and Mana Spring/Mana Tide, and a shadowpriest, so I doubt he was having mana problems.
Thanks in advance for any tips provided.
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Increasing hit should help. One fairly dissapointing thing I have to note with his gear, is hte malorne gloves, legs, bracers of the white stag. While you would think t4 would be a good choice. Unfortunatly, the cloth offset items are much better. Particularly spell strike legs. while helm is at least reasonably comparable. Spellstrike legs however are far far far better then t4 legs. t4 gloves arent very good either. the cloth ones from botanica are better. Flowing thought- maiden, soul-eather-magtheridon, angerspark-doomwalker are all upgrades he should be looking for.
I cant remember exactly what chests are good at that point. Spellfire requires tailoring. "I" used my gladiator chest till I got t4 chest. T4 chest being a very viable item, as opposed to legs/gloves I mentioned earlier.
Spell damage scales much better then spell crit. Getting rid of xi ri's gift for scryer bloodgem(hit), or quagmirrians eye, or any other spell damage trinket would be very good as well.
Spell wise, he should be doing mf/is/sfx3 on magtheridon. Theres no real reason to be using wrath if there is a lock in the raid.
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09/26/07, 2:53 PM
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#290
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Skullcrusher
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Originally Posted by Efejel
I no longer have an active account at all, so could use some help confirming what I've gathered from this thread, the official patch notes and MMO-champion.
Pending spreadsheet changes for 2.2:
15.75 spell haste rating = 1% speed (improved from 22 = 1%)
[Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] now correctly only gives 3% addt'l damage on crit, regardless of talents
[Marshal's Silk Cuffs] now have "correct" 12 crit rating in game
Other changes?!?!? - Please let me know
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Cyclone got a new graphic?
And hurricane got a new animation effect as well. The lighting bolts are now targeted on targets in the aoe. E.i. if there is only one target, the bolts will hit that target over and over, like d2 lighting storm.
Oh, and a new mace from hyjal/bt trash.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/n...fjudgement.jpg
You already added the new flask. hmm.
Epic crafted gems. bop gemcrafter only. They are a bit stronger then bt ones.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/n...ly/newgems.jpg
And all tk/ssc weapons were upgraded a bit. I believe only relevant item is tempest key.
Last edited by Caliane : 09/26/07 at 3:52 PM.
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09/27/07, 5:08 AM
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#291
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Dentarg (EU)
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Is it just me and my gfx card or does Barkskin not show anymore in Moonkin form? Also the weapon seems to shrink on shifting (as a tauren at least).
Slightly Offtopic, sorry 
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09/27/07, 8:34 AM
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#292
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Von Kaiser
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early 2.3 patch notes
Intensity is being changed to increase mana regeneration by 30% with 3/3.
If i wanted to model that using the spreadsheet, where can i change the % for that talent?
Last edited by Thermomenes : 09/29/07 at 7:39 PM.
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09/27/07, 11:50 AM
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#293
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Warlock
Zuluhed
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Originally Posted by Benita
Is it just me and my gfx card or does Barkskin not show anymore in Moonkin form? Also the weapon seems to shrink on shifting (as a tauren at least).
Slightly Offtopic, sorry 
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Barkskin still shows but you can't see it from behind really well. Pan your camera to look at your face and you can see it. I also measured my staff using just my fingers on my screen and my staff shrunk on my back. Also that overall my Moonkin seemed to shrink but I'm not 100% sure on that.
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09/27/07, 2:26 PM
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#294
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by Thermomenes
Intensity is being changed to increase mana regeneration by 30% with 3/3.
If i wanted to model that using the spreadsheet, where can i change the % for that talent?
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Two places. First, Gear_Select:L5
=L6+FLOOR((E5*Dreamstate_Mod)+(((37.5*(Intensity*0.1))+(Intensity*2*F5)/36)),1)
Second, CS&B:C23
=MAX(0,C12-(FLOOR(((C6*Dreamstate_Mod)+(((37.5*(Intensity*0.1))+(Intensity*2*C7)/36))),1)))+(FLOOR(((C17*Dreamstate_Mod)+(((37.5*(Intensity*0.1))+(Intensity*2*C18)/36))),1))+Buff_mp5
PS-I'm a bit surprised we're seeing 2.3 leaks this early. I checked out the Druid offc'l boards and there's even blue posts confirming/denying some of the rumors. Any chance this is a sign of change for the better, or is it an isolated incident?
Last edited by Efejel : 09/27/07 at 2:33 PM.
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"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut
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09/27/07, 2:31 PM
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#295
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Efejel
Two places. First, Gear_Select:L5
=L6+FLOOR((E5*Dreamstate_Mod)+(((37.5*(Intensity*0.1))+(Intensity*2*F5)/36)),1)
Second, CS&B:C23
=MAX(0,C12-(FLOOR(((C6*Dreamstate_Mod)+(((37.5*(Intensity*0.1))+(Intensity*2*C7)/36))),1)))+(FLOOR(((C17*Dreamstate_Mod)+(((37.5*(Intensity*0.1))+(Intensity*2*C18)/36))),1))+Buff_mp5
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Thank yah kindly
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09/27/07, 2:37 PM
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#296
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Von Kaiser
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I was wanting a bit of advice from the raiding moonkin out there. I've played my mage to raid for a solid two years and I've recently become more and more obsessed with the thought of raiding on a moonkin. I'm not entirely sure why, but I think it has a lot to do with how clean the balance tree is for a dps caster. With mages there are lots of different directions you can go, but as a raiding moonkin it seems that there is one acceptable spec.
My druid is lvl 39 now and I plan on him reaching 70 eventually (maybe by Christmas?) and beginning to raid on him. I do have a working knowledge of how to play a dps caster and I realize the most important stats for a dps caster (hit rating capped, then damage + crit, finally stats).
I was wondering what you guys thought of this build and if there are any gear and cast rotation tips that you'd be willing to share with me.
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09/27/07, 3:33 PM
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#297
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Skullcrusher
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Originally Posted by Efejel
I no longer have an active account at all, so could use some help confirming what I've gathered from this thread, the official patch notes and MMO-champion.
Pending spreadsheet changes for 2.2:
[Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] now correctly only gives 3% addt'l damage on crit, regardless of talents
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Actually, as of right now on live.
The gem no longer works at all for spell crits. "We're looking into it."
That would suggest not working at all is not intended. But who knows how long it will be like this.
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09/27/07, 6:44 PM
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#298
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Von Kaiser
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Keep it quiet :)
I came across this post below from one of the mage threads and it made me want to run the same test using Efejel's spreadsheet to see how well druids would perform against the new mage with 10% more damage coefficient to fireball and frostbolt.
Mage post:

VONTRE WROTE:
I went ahead and ran a simulation on my project (not nearly ready for public release) and pulled some quick numbers to demonstrate the effect of the 2.3 changes. I also went ahead and removed casting latency, which may or may not be the result of Blizzard's implementation of the stopcasting fix. Mana wasn't considered here at all, just dps. Basically for the fire/frost builds I'm using Skull of Gul'dan and Icon, arcane is using Lightning Capacitor and Ashtongue. Endgame approximation stats, unbuffed 1200 spell damage and 330 crit rating, hit capped, 4 pieces of T6. MSD assumed for all. Flame cap is assumed for fire. For arcane spec I swapped 64 hit rating for more spell damage. Everything here is considered except for Molten Fury and a shaman. Comparison for 5 min of combat looked like this:
Fire: 1661.8406813201
Frost: 1450.3016389009
Arcane Missiles: 1662.2948586472
I'm still deciding how the effect of Molten Fury should be modeled, a straight 4% increase to damage seems problematic as it's unlikely most will get 20% of their time on target during execute range. By the same token I didn't account for malediction on curse of shadows, which is likely.
What this isn't counting is spell pushback, target switching, or range. Fire wins on range obviously, but fire also loses a lot of steam from pushback (even after talents) and target switching if those things come into play.
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So, I set the latency to 0, potted and buffed up (with no shaman buffs), and selected the best gear (full T6 ect), gems, and enchants and set it to a 5 min fight with 250 regen from an S-priest. I also used trees and increased their damage from 6k to 7k since the +spell damage is so high and tree damage scales with our damage by 7% or so. The result?
MFx2, SFx11 = 1704.9 dps. I'm fine with that  And it was fun doing the theorycrafting!...But I must confess, I do not know if this is an accurate comparison because the mage did not post if he was using spell food or weapon oils...if he did not, them removing them would change the result to this = 1655.4 dps
P.S.
OH, and Efejel...is there a way you can add the Drums of War, Drums of Battle, and Destruction Potions in the buffs section like you did Drums of Restoration?
Last edited by Thermomenes : 09/29/07 at 7:39 PM.
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09/27/07, 7:00 PM
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#299
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Skullcrusher
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Ill take some time to reveiw the numbers later.
But, a fire mage should now flat out destroy a balance druid in single target dps in 2.3. by 20-35% so.
Something is wrong with the theorycraft there.
An imp scorch, misery, 13% cos, gives fireball something like 1.78spell coeff. Plus higher crit rate, base damage, and more damage from crits, and combustion/moltenfury, compared to SF 1.72 with misery, t5 4pc, and 13% cos.
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09/27/07, 7:07 PM
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#300
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Caliane
Ill take some time to reveiw the numbers later.
But, a fire mage should now flat out destroy a balance druid in single target dps in 2.3. by 20-35% so.
Something is wrong with the theorycraft there.
An imp scorch, misery, 13% cos, gives fireball something like 1.78spell coeff. Plus higher crit rate, base damage, and more damage from crits, and combustion/moltenfury, compared to SF 1.72 with misery, t5 4pc, and 13% cos.
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The mage is not accounting for molten fury as you can read above. Also, I am not using T5 4pc. This is with T6 4pc. Wish i could have seen his spreadsheet. I will try to add mine in if someone can walk me through linking it like Efejel did in the OP.
And even if something changes in the mage spreadsheet used to maximize mage dps even more, it feels like an overestimation to say they would destroy us by 20-35%.
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