Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 24

Vodrin · 10/15/07, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nerfy

So just making sure I'm reading this correctly and I would be able to make a macro to do the following since making macro's isn't something I'm the greatest at:

/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Unseen Moon] Idol of the Unseen Moon
/cast Insect Swarm
/cast Moonfire
/equip [noequipped:Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess
/castsequence Starfire, Starfire, Starfire

Now that should be IS, MF, SF x3 rotation but is it possible to do a MF, SF x4 rotation with the idol swapping?

you are going to have to split it into 2 keys, sorry!

/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Unseen Moon] Idol of the Unseen Moon
/castsequence reset=10 Insect Swarm, Moonfire

/equip [noequipped:Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess
/cast Starfire

You will lose the starfire bonus from idol on the first starfire though but its worth it.

Spink · 10/15/07, 2:45 PM

Wouldn't it make more sense to do 3 buttons so you get full benefit

/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Unseen Moon] Idol of the Unseen Moon
/cast Insect Swarm

/cast Moonfire
/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Ivory Moongoddess] Idol of the Ivory Moongoddess

/cast Starfire

or would Moonfire not get the benefit of the Idol of the Unseen Moon even though it didnt switch until the spell had been cast?

Caliane · 10/15/07, 3:21 PM

Yeah, im testing atm what I find more effective.

I may simply use a hotkey method.

2- Idol of the cresent moon
3- Ivory Idol of the moongoddess
g- starfire
mouse1- moonfire

And do m1, 3, g, g, 2, g, m1, 3, etc.

Way too laggy on ptr atm, to really get an inclination of how to do the idol swaping and not lose cast time due ot the global cooldown.

Mana spring is 20mana per 2s untalented now. used to bed 12. this is a buff to us as well.

Maax · 10/15/07, 5:04 PM

Originally Posted by Vodrin

you are going to have to split it into 2 keys, sorry!

/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Unseen Moon] Idol of the Unseen Moon
/castsequence reset=10 Insect Swarm, Moonfire

/equip [noequipped:Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess
/cast Starfire

You will lose the starfire bonus from idol on the first starfire though but its worth it.

Actually you don't lose the starfire idol bonus on the first one. Damage is calculated when the spell lands, and the idol is finished being equipped by the time the starfire finishes, It was mentioned earlier in this thread when asking how to get the spreadsheet to show dps for using both idols.

http://elitistjerks.com/433002-post182.html

Basically for any spell with a cast time you can equip the idol after casting and have it equip in time to get the effect, it is only instant casts like Moonfire that you can't do that for. For instance I use the following macros now (I also have pass through targeting in there):

#showtooltip Healing Touch
/cast [target=target,help] Healing Touch; [target=targettarget,help]  Healing Touch; [target=player]  Healing Touch
/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Avian Heart] Idol of the Avian Heart;

#showtooltip Regrowth
/cast [target=target,help] Regrowth; [target=targettarget,help] Regrowth; [target=player] Regrowth
/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Crescent Goddess] Idol of the Crescent Goddess;

#showtooltip Starfire
/stopcasting
/cast [harm] Starfire; [target=targettarget, harm] Starfire
/equip [noequipped:Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess;

#showtooltip Wrath
/stopcasting
/cast [harm] Wrath; [target=targettarget, harm] Wrath
/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Avenger] Idol of the Avenger;

edit:

Just realized the ones i use on live work because the equip is after the /cast.

Vauk · 10/15/07, 6:46 PM

Just wondering why you stopcasting wrath? Don't nature's grace procs completely fubar your sequence?

Vodrin · 10/15/07, 7:52 PM

Originally Posted by Vauk

Just wondering why you stopcasting wrath? Don't nature's grace procs completely fubar your sequence?

/stopcasting is for the spell previous to the one you are casting. Therefore its useful on every damage spell you are using in a rotation. Even on instant cast dots as you may wish to stop the cast of a starfire preceeding it.

Maax · 10/15/07, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by Vodrin

/stopcasting is for the spell previous to the one you are casting. Therefore its useful on every damage spell you are using in a rotation. Even on instant cast dots as you may wish to stop the cast of a starfire preceeding it.

Yes, and also my latency is bad enough that I actually still gain a few 100ms by using it when wrath spamming (as long as I watch the Quartz global cool-down bar to make sure it is done).

Saraya · 10/17/07, 5:37 AM

Hi Ef, first off, the spreadsheet is awesome. I've finally decided to stop lurking!

I'm terrible at reading excel so hopefully you can find the problem:
The DPS reported below the customized cycle and the DPS shown in the list for comparison are different... but shouldn't they be the same? Furthermore, creating a customized cycle identical to one on the list already gives a different value. For example:

IS MF SFx3 cycle
Preset: 1229.2 DPS
Customized Cast Cycle(in list): 1191.7 DPS
Customized Cast Cycle(below cycle): 1168.1 DPS

Not sure what's going on, but something weird is happening. I've already disabled most buffs(my raid group is terribly balanced), and set the fight length to 1-6 minutes, and these values are always inconsistent. Hope that's enough info!

Efejel · 10/17/07, 12:38 PM

I've figured out what's going on, and have been meaning to mention it.

The original implementation of the custom cast cycle was assuming that all ticks of your DOTs would tick out. This made Mfx8 (or any number) the highest DPS rotation. So, I added some more stringent checks to ensure that if your cast cycle was on average shorter than 12 secs (or 15 with 2-pc T6), the sheet wouldn't calculate the extra ticks of DOTs that you weren't getting.

And, between Nature's Grace and Spell Haste, for most people this means that 3x Starfire + 1x (Insect Swarm or Wrath) means that the last tick of Moonfire is being disregarded. However, this sort of stringent assumption is NOT made for the default rotations. They're designed with the assumption that DOTs are never overwritten, because the cycles are designed to be fairly close the appropriate length to make that happen. NG and Haste again may mean that that isn't happening--but the spreadsheet isn't accounting for it because it's a bit too trying to correct for every possible cycle length.

The final difference you're seeing between the cycle DPS below the custom cast cycle, and the DPS for the same cycle in the total damage area is caused by our friends the trees. They get factored in after the basic DPS of the cycle is calculated. If you turn them to "No" (same for Battle Rez) the two boxes should then match up -- as long as you have enough mana to sustain your cycle for the duration of the fight.

Edit: For an example of this effect, try changing the MFx1, SFx4 to a MFx1, SFx5 rotation on the attached spreadsheet and see the jump in DPS--this comes simply from the fact that the Moonfire DOT's last tick is no longer being overwritten.

PS-This spreadsheet has the new S3 & Badge gear, save the Idol.

UPDATE: Updated spreadsheet a few posts down, removed buggy one.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t11582-d...15/#post516638

Allurissa · 10/17/07, 2:08 PM

Hello again Moonkin and Friends of the Moonkin,

Update from last post: I've got a computer that can handle all content and have been raiding consistently with my guild. I've managed to get a number of upgrades although the Starfire Idol seems to still be rather elusive.

I've lately been trying to play with cast cycles, but no matter what I do to buffs (or gear) I can't seem to get out of the IS, SFx4 rotation. Is there something I'm missing? I'd love to start implementing MF more often for the extra crit proc chance for NG. Is a IS, SFx4 rotation standard for most moonkin?

Also, I'll be respeccing soon into Intensity (dropping FoN and Imp FF). Most of our melee is soft hit-capped at this point. I need to retain the 5/5 Subltety, I threat cap the tank too often not to have all the ranks. I'm open to other spec suggestions if anyone has any, but I'm mainly inquiring about spell rotations.

Thanks for the sheet Efejel, I can't tell you how much it's helped me out.

Also, a note about the 2.3 patch notes. The server will accept incoming spell requests while the client side still shows as casting, effectively negating the need for /stopcasting macros (or so it says in the patch notes).

Thanks for the help. It's always appreciated!

Vauk · 10/17/07, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Allurissa

I've lately been trying to play with cast cycles, but no matter what I do to buffs (or gear) I can't seem to get out of the IS, SFx4 rotation. Is there something I'm missing? I'd love to start implementing MF more often for the extra crit proc chance for NG. Is a IS, SFx4 rotation standard for most moonkin?

You haven't really provided enough information to really show what you mean by this.

Are you saying that SFx4+IS is more dps for you than wrath spam?

Because (generally, and in my experience) wrath spam has alot more dps until you reach the end of the tier 5 gear level.

Are you are saying that you have to do that because you are mana capped?

Because yes with your gear level (and even at my gear level) you will mana cap on every boss fight. I don't really know what to say about this other than guzzle mana pots and try to replace some of your gear. Those epic rings may be better that what you have but its unfortunate to not get anything but stamina out of them. You are exalted with Violet Eye i'd use that ring. You will ALWAYS need your own innervate on boss fights. You have to work it out with your guild so they don't come to rely on your innervate and that when you have a chance to use it on them its a freak occurrence

Overall 4x Starfire + IS is probably a good habit to get into on boss fights anyhow. IS miss % on single target bosses more than makes up for the low dps you do.

EDIT: For me 4x Starfire + IS is standard for any boss that I feel has the chance to spike kill the tank (IE: Prince back in the day or Morogrim now) but i tend to MF + 4x SF on bosses that aren't as bad on the tank.

Originally Posted by Allurissa

Also, I'll be respeccing soon into Intensity (dropping FoN and Imp FF). Most of our melee is soft hit-capped at this point. I need to retain the 5/5 Subtlety, I threat cap the tank too often not to have all the ranks. I'm open to other spec suggestions if anyone has any, but I'm mainly inquiring about spell rotations.

Don't take 5/5 subtlety. On boss fights if you consistently threat cap the tank it is a sign of a bad tank and no amount of -%threat is going to help enough. Its just plain not worth it. The 2 points for FF into Int will help. I personally would take a point out of subelty instead of Force of Nature. Think about it like this. FoN = ~50k threat free damage over X mins. Unless you are going 5 MILLION damage over that same time frame FoN is much better. Not to mention its a set it and forget it spell. Plus its our marquee spell

Good luck with the boom'ing... hopefully not to much oom'ing

EDIT: On last nights full ssc clear I did 3,804,809 damage and my treants were 73,553 of that damage (almost 2% of my total damage) and that with me casting them very randomly. FoN is worth the point.

Allurissa · 10/17/07, 5:06 PM

I almost never use wrath unless the mob is immune to arcane damage. Reason: I find it cuts into and can cut off the bonus from NG. Maybe it's just me though.

The spell rotation I'm using comes from Efejel's handy spreadsheet. By trying out other cast cycles, I have played a little bit in game, but mostly on the spreadsheet, trying to tweak it to come up with something else. I've tried MF, IS, SFx3 and MF, SFx3, IS, SFx3. I find those two cycles use a ton of mana though. While I can get sidetracked, I try hard to stick to the most mana and damage efficient spell rotation from the sheet.

Our current content is SSC/Eye. We can consistently down Hydross, Lurker, Tidewalker and VR. We are hoping to down Karathress this week and move to Leo.

Don't take 5/5 subtlety. On boss fights if you consistently threat cap the tank it is a sign of a bad tank and no amount of -%threat is going to help enough. Its just plain not worth it. The 2 points for FF into Int will help. I personally would take a point out of subelty instead of Force of Nature. Think about it like this. FoN = ~50k threat free damage over X mins. Unless you are going 5 MILLION damage over that same time frame FoN is much better. Not to mention its a set it and forget it spell. Plus its our marquee spell

Our tank is one of the very best that I know and he's incredibly well geared (compared to our other tanks). I usually have to wait until 10k threat to start casting starfires. On fights like VR, I typically start threat capping between the 5 and 6 minute mark. Hydross is even worse because the entire fight is so threat sensitive. I'm also running the Subtlety enchant to my cloak because of this.

For reference here are some WWS reports from this past weekends raids. The reports are the anonymous versions as requested by our RC's.

Wow Web Stats (Hydross, Attempts on Karathress: I'm listed as Cumulus)
Wow Web Stats (Magtheridon: I'm listed as Cumulus)
Wow Web Stats (Void Reaver: I'm listed as Snow)

I'm actually pretty embarassed by the VR stats. I really think I should have and can do better, particularly since I had just gained my T4 Chestpiece.

Any other advice (with the addition of the recent dps meters) is very welcome.

Thanks again Moonkin Community!!

Thermomenes · 10/17/07, 8:47 PM

Efejel-

The new spreadsheet gives me a #DIV/0! when i remove moonfire from the custom cast cycle. As long as the custom cycle includes MF, everything checks out.

Also, would it be weird if the spreadsheet was telling me that the best cast cycle for dps is a 10x SF + 1xMF rotation with the T5 4pc bonus on? I hope it isn't assuming the T5 bonus is active throughout the 10x SF casting period.

Saraya · 10/18/07, 12:46 AM

Ef -
Hm, ok. I finally got the numbers to match up. It seems like the custom cast cycle assumes you have Nature's Grace automatically instead of grabbing it from the character sheet. I had to set the latency to something huge like 700 ms to get the numbers to finally match up.

Also, I did forget to mention the divide by 0 bug. The older versions have it too. Insect swarm doesn't have this problem either.

Allurissa-
My raid group isn't quite where you're at yet(Finally got Lurker and VR down a few weeks ago), but I do end up using wrath a lot, because I like stealing stormstrike charges, and because for fights like VR, if you have an arcane orb launched at you, setting up a starfire is very risky whereas a wrath wouldn't be as risky. You rarely ever get to sit in place during the whole fight, so I use wrath when I need to be mobile.

Looking over your WWS, I'm not seeing very heavy potion use. I make sure to chug potions early and often, so doing a IS MF SFx3 rotation is generally sustainable. Without a shadow priest and little mana pot usage, I'm not sure you can really do much besides the standard IS SFx4 rotation. I think if you took your current setup and just drank pots as much as possible, you could do the moonfire rotation for most of the fight. Getting intensity will definitely help, especially after 2.3.

My advice would be to try weaving in the MF rotation after the tank builds enough threat, and making sure to drink pots as much as possible. If your mana gets too low, switch back to the mana conservation rotation, and possibly even downrank the starfire one or two ranks. Or you could just offer to buy oreos for shadow priests who join your group.

Edit: Made the post less retarded.

Efejel · 10/18/07, 4:54 AM

Div/0 error fixed
Checking now implemented for IS too (custom cycles only)
Automatic trinket detection enabled for Alchemist's Stone & Bangle of Endless Blessings
Innervate re-worked may/may not be more accurate.
T5 chest socket bonus fixed

Saraya, I'm not seeing any change with Nature's Grace. It should be grabbing whatever is input in the Talents tab, albeit indirectly.

Known "To Do" list:
Add new cloth gear
Attempt to make spreadsheet mp5 match in-game mp5
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