I have tried idol switching but for some reason i ran into problems with the global cooldown, normally when i finish a starfire i am able to toss a moonfire in before the global cooldown hits but when i was using this macro to cast the moonfire and switch the idol:

/equip Idol of the Unseen Moon
/cast moonfire

I was unable to do so and it seemed to me as if it even triggert a new global cooldown.

Swapping items in combat triggers the GCD.

Doh, your right for some reason i thought it was only for weapons and not for idols, sigh stupid of me.

Thanks for clearing that up for me

Thank you very much I wasn't even thinking about misery or my meta having any effect on the procs.

I supposed it could be too small of a sample set. I was using a 1 fight per. As soon as the mob would unbanish, i would get my numbers, reset and drink.

Things that I can think of that may or may not helped my dps increase:

I was using the Crusader deck (although I was using it on all fights w/ and w/o idol swapping)
My crit rate was exceptionally high on these mobs (my SF crit is around 32%, but I seemed to be getting near 45% in those fights).
I had 120ms latency

Idk, its definitely hard to argue calculations, its just what I ended up with

Do you happen to know a better mob that i can test on that doesnt unbanish and come beat on you? I would love to get some better numbers if possible.


Tach

This is why I started switching to the moonfire idol on my last starfire sequence. You will not run into a gcd on your next moonfire. I posted my sequence a few posts back. Give them a try and pls post results.

Tach

DOH! You made the same mistake that most others make. Swap the cast and equip lines in your macro so that the cast comes FIRST and then the equip is second. The equip takes place (basically) while the spell is casting (even for insta-cast) and does not incur an additional GCD period. The damage is calculated at the end of the spell cast, and takes into account the newly-equipped idol. You should also use the new [noequip:blahblah] option in your macro to avoid the parsing engine from doing the equip if you hit the wrong macro button and that item was already equipped. By doing the equip first the GCD is performed on the equip prior to the spell being cast.

I believe everything on your character sheet is rated vs an equivalent level target... so you'll get absurd crit rates on anything in the old world. Fly up to netherstorm, sit on the wagon near Dr. Boom, kill the pathing flayer, and then test your DPS on Dr. Boom. With 120 ms ping, you should see a DPS increase, but it will be a far smaller one. You should be getting around a 20 DPS increase with the swap vs only SF idol if you have good timing, and probably more like a 5 DPS increase if you do this on the PTR. With my lousy latency I get about a 10 DPS increase with the swap on live, and pretty much break even on the PTR.

TY. Ill give it another go sometime soon.

Holy belated update! Finally got past my brain-block and fixed spirit on the DPS comparison page. I can't remember all the other changes that need to be made, so please refresh my memory if you think of them.

Hello,

I'm new to the Elitest Jerks forums and I play a moonkin on Dragonmaw. I have been promoted to guild moonkin and have been getting invites to SSC and TK raiding. I want to optimize my presence and be the best moonkin possible. So in my quest I have many questions. I will try to base the question based on reading I've done from this thread.

Here we go:

1) Ive got the moonkin spreadsheet by the post creator and I find that regardless of gear wrath spam is the best dps. is this true? I read a few posts stating some moonkins are pushing 1200-1300 dps in end game dungeons. Are they wrath spamming with ridiculous crit or are they casting Starfire with ridiculous crit or rather VERY high spell dmg? I know this is a broad question please generalize your answer, for I know many other factors come into play.

2) Based on question one... IF wrath spam is optimal dps based on gear with high crit, I've found that I'm literally casting wraths faster then my global cooldown will allow? Should I change my rotation based on circumstance, if so, please give examples.

3) Is force of nature worth having for dps increase. If so should i cast it the minute its off cooldown or pick and choose timing based on expected surviability of the treants?

4) For max dps what is more important: High Spell Damage? or High High Crit? Or A mix of both? In addition must spell hit be maxxed under all circumstances before worrying about the previous?

5) I learned from reading that casting IS and Improved FF will lower you dps drastically due to lost time. Do the moonkins who are pushing 1100k + dps include both of these into their rotation and assure they are up at all times or do they straigh balls to the wall dps? If they do include these two spells into their rotation are they still able to maintain high end dps? If so what is the rotation?

I think thats it for now, If i have anymore questions I'll post again. Feel free to pick and choose when responding. Any information at all will be extremely helpful. THANK YOU. I really appreciate any feedback.

Thanks,

Laqwanda

Wrath Spam is the best DPS when you don't care about mana. For trash, this works, but on any boss fight you'll go OOM way before your potion cooldowns are up, or your Innervate, etc. Make sure the last page of the sheet is as accurate as possible (especially expected fight time and any mana regeneration), and you'll see a marked difference in how the spell rotations line up.

FoN is amazing in all aspects. It's threat-free DPS. Probably wanna wait until they're safe to cast them.

Spell hit and crit effectiveness depend on your damage, but in general, 1 hit rating = 1.1 damage = 2 crit rating, I.E. stack hit first, then damage, and the crit will follow. Use the sheet, though, to find out where you lie more specifically (EX: I right now straddle the 1 hit = 1 damage line. Any more damage, and hit gets better). As an aside, MP5 is one of the best DPS stats you can get. More mana regen allows you to support ever-decreasingly-efficient rotations, like Moonfire.

IFF is a DPS loss, no doubt about it. It's fairly gear-independent as well, since it always means losing the same amount of cast time from your rotation. Whether you cast it (and therefore spec it, since why spec it if you don't cast it) depends on whether you have a Feral MT, and whether you want to give your melee DPS a reason to gear for less hit. I.E., consult your guild.

IS, however, is an amazing DPS spell until you get enough mana regen to support Moonfire in your rotation.


Vengeance is +100% to the bonus damage from crits. Without, if you hit for 1000, you crit for 1500, hence your bonus crit damage is 500. 100% of 500 is 500, so adding Vengeance brings you to 2000. Yes, it's worded weirdly, but Vengeance brings you to 200% crits.

Healing Items to add:
Band of the Eternal Restorer
Apostle of Argus*
Blessed Band of Karabor*
Crystal Spire of Karabor
Leggings of Eternity
Memento of Tyrande*
Band of Eternity
Amice of Brilliant Light
Angelista's Sash*
Archbishop's Slippers
Belt of Divine Guidance
Belt of Primal Majesty*
Boots of the Divine Light
Botanist's Gloves of Growth*
Bracers of Martyrdom
Bracers of Renewed Life*
Cowl of Benvolence
Don Rodrigo's Poncho
Enchanted Leather Sandals
Garments of Temperance
Gloves of Unfailing Faith
Guise of the Tidal Lurker
Hammer of Atonement
Kilt of Immortal Nature
Lightfathom Scepter
Nadina's Pendant of Purity*
Rejuvenating Bracers
Coral Band of the Revived
Crown of the Sun
Lord Sanguinar's Claim
Band of Eternity
Merciless Gladiator's Kodohide Gloves
Merciless Gladiator's Kodohide Helm
Merciless Gladiator's Kodohide Legguards
Merciless Gladiator's Kodohide Spaulders
Merciless Gladiator's Kodohide Tunic
Merciless Gladiator's Reprieve
Merciless Gladiator's Salvation
Ethereum Life-Staff
Nordrassil Chestguard
Nordrassil Gloves
Nordrassil Headguard
Nordrassil Life-Kilt
Nordrassil Life-Mantle
Band of Eternity
Band of the Vigilant
Bark-Gloves of Ancient Wisdom
Belt of the Long Road
Boots of the Long Road
Girdle of Zaetar
Gnarled Chestpiece of the Ancients
Grove-Bands of Remulos
Orca-Hide Boots
Phoenix-Ring of Rebirth
Cowl of Nature's Breath
Crystalheart Pulse-Staff
Eye of Gruul
Jade Ring of the Everliving
Light's Justice
Naaru Lightwarden's Band
Gladiator's Kodohide Gloves
Gladiator's Kodohide Helm
Gladiator's Kodohide Legguards
Gladiator's Kodohide Spaulders
Gladiator's Kodohide Tunic
Gladiator's Reprieve
Gladiator's Salvation
Archaic Carm of Presence
Chestguard of Malorne
Crown of Malorne
Handguards of Malrone
Legguards of Malorne
Shoulderguards of Malrone
Exodar Life-Staff
Gilded Trosers of Benediction
Gold-Leaf Wildboots
Primal Mooncloth Robe
Aran's Soothing Sapphire
Bands of Indwelling
Boots of the Incorrupt
Cincture of Will
Cord of Nature's Sustenance
Earthsoul Leggings
Emberspur Talisman
Forest Wind Shoulderpads
Forestlord Striders
Gloves of Saintly Blessings
Headdress of the High Potentate
Masquerade Gown
Mender's Heart-Ring
Mitts of the Treemender
Nightstaff of the Everliving
Pantaloons of Repentence
Pauldrons of the Solace-Giver
Primal Mooncloth Belt
Red Riding Hood's Cloak
Band of Halos
Bands fo the Benevolent
Bishop's Claok
Boots of the Pious
Cord of Sanctification
Cowl of Naaru Blessings
Essence of the Martyr
Light-Touched Stole of Altruism
Necklace of Eternal Hope
Pontiflex Kilt
Bindings of the Timewalker
Gloves of the Living Touch
Hand of Eternity
Hood of Primal Life
Band of the Crystalline Void
Gavel of Pure Light
Kamaei's Cerulean Skirt
Lifegiving Cloak
Pants of Living Growth
Vengeful Gladiator's Kodohide Gloves
Vengeful Gladiator's Kodohide Helm
Vengeful Gladiator's Kodohide Legguards
Vengeful Gladiator's Kodohide Spaulders
Vengeful Gladiator's Kodohide Tunic
Vengeful Gladiator's Reprieve
Vengeful Gladiator's Salvation
Vindicator's Kodohide Belt
Vindicator's Kodohide Boots
Vindicator's Kodohide Bracers
Vindicator's Band of Salvation
Vindicator's Pendant of Salvation
Veteran's Kodohide Belt
Veteran's Kodohide Boots
Veteran's Kodohide Bracers
Veteran's Band of Salvation
Veteran's Pendant of Salvation
Signet of the Quiet Forest*
Dark Blessing
Kharmaa's Shroud of Hope
Battlemaster's Perseverance
Hood of the Third Eye
Two-toed Sandals
Staff of Dark Mending
Achromic Trousers of the Naaru
Brooch of Nature's Mercy*
Cloak of Ancient Rituals
Cord of Braided Troll Hair
Gargon's Bracers Peaceful Slumber
Garled Ironwood Pauldrons
Helm of Natural Regeneration
Life-step Belt
Light-Blessed Bonds
Plants of Splendid Recovery
Robes of Heavenly Purpose
Shimmer-pelt Vest
Voodoo Shaker
Wristguards of Tranquil Thought
Witches Band

Consumables to add:
Mad Alchemist's Potion
Skullfish Soup

So a concept hit me, sacrifice 11spell dmg for 300spirit every two minutes for 20 seconds. I was deliberating on replacing Quag's eye with this to help solve some of the mana issues associated with Moonkins. I know in clutch situations I could pop this and innervate and get a full mana bar back. Do any of you have this trinket and have the desire to mess with it? It seemed like a decent alternative for longer fights or very mana intensive fights. Being only a 2minute CD is the big kicker as it can be used multiple times in a fight.

Efejel: Could I request that they be separated from the DPS items in the list, similar to one handed, two handed for weapons? :B Also, Mad Alchemist Potion and Super Rejuv pots are exactly the same in terms of returned health and mana.

Forgiven: If this idea didn't come up every single month, I wouldn't have known that you were referring to the Priest only trinket: Earring of Soulful Meditation - Items - World of Warcraft.

Yep, I was planning on that. Especially to keep the tier items seperate, since the names are either the same or impossibly similar.

While the proposed trinket (and thus the 300 spirit) is priest specific, I would definately consider the Bangle of Endless Blessings if you're having mana issues, especially if you're using tier gear (in which case the 15% while casting can add up to a fair bit of mana). Of course, it's highly dependant on what you're replacing: anyone rocking a combination of [Hex Shrunken Head], [Icon of the Silver Crescent], and [The Skull of Gul'dan] is probably better off having mana problems than sacrificing their trinket stats for a boost to their innervate.

Adoriele or Efejel:

1) What kind of Gear set up, stats, +dmg, Spell hit, Spell crit, Mp5 do moonkins have that are holding consistent 1300 DPS. Be General.

2) I want to try a built and maxxs spell hit, and has ridiculous crit around the neighborhood of 40-50% with wrath and Starfire. My spell dmg would be only about 950-1000 unbuffed. Is this advisable or not? Based on the spreadsheet it seems that it does more dps then spell hit and lots of +spell dmg? What are you thoughts.

I'm pulling about 850 Spreadsheet, 700 actual DPS, so this is just theorycrafting, but you're definitely gonna want 4pc T5, and a bunch of non-set T6, probably cloth. Plus, getting numbers that high often relies on group makeup as well. Pocket Shadow Priest, Ele (or Resto, or both) Shammy, an Affliction Lock in the raid with +3% to CoS, and a BM hunter wouldn't be horrible either. We're still very mana-limited, but again, with enough regen, being able to work in Moonfire and/or going to some funky rotations is a big plus.

Second question's a little out of my league, as I'm nooooooowhere near that kind of gear level. My guess would be that if you've made the sheet as accurate as possible, go ahead and try it out. Be careful of crit strings, though, aggro adds up fast. (Though I guess if you're at that gear level, threat's not gonna be an issue.)

New Patch Notes Read:

Im assuming this means no more idol swapping?

As you just admitted, this isn't entirely true. Dps depends on the last sheet and the sort of raid buffs you'll be recieving. With a Malediction Warlock putting up CoS and enough damage and crit, Starfire becomes the better dps. Wrath doesn't gain anything from Nature's Grace, and there is no Curse of Nature (stormstrike doesn't count because your shamans will be eating those). Not to mention Starfire gains an additional 20% from Wrath of Cenarius while Wrath only gains 10%.

Force of Nature is more of a PvP talent. It doesn't fit into a real cast rotation and the treants like to die before they despawn. I don't have any hard numbers on what their DPS is like but I get the feeling that they just aren't worth it.


As with all DPS casters, being hit capped is more important than anything. Any more damage and hit gets better is silly, you should be hit capped as it is! Also I'm not sure about your claims on MP5, but I always get a shadow priest so I can't comment one way or another.


IFF is a DPS loss for the moonkin, but a major DPS gain for the entire raid. Even if all your physical DPS is hit capped, your tanks aren't going to be, so their TPS will increase (meaning raid DPS can also increase).

1) There are only a few fights where you do nothing but DPS, and to be honest I doubt there are many balance druids that push 1300+ on any fight.

2) If you're going to start stacking crit, I wouldn't do it until you hit 1150 to 1200 damage. I was peaking at 1275 unbuffed and decided to trim off a lot taking me down to 1170 or so, needless to say my raid DPS went up quite a bit. The combination of crit and using TLC helped quite a bit. However, you need to get consistent DPS and understand your mana pool, rotation, and the fight in general before you start worrying about massive burst damage.

I havnt checked this thread in a while, and going back over the last few pages, its amazing how much misinformation is being thrown around.

Please, if you are just guessing, or assuming, don't post. You throw others off, and more then likely you are wrong.

I'll try to clear up the misconceptions.

1)Treants. They are nice, but the point is probably better spent in the restore tree, especially if you are threat capped. I was threatcapped all through t5 content, so treants really werent worth it over -threat talents. This thread sparked me to go try trees again, maybe i'll take a look at their dmg since my +damage has grown a lot since I last had them. However, if you are reading this thread, you probably should start without them. (also, they fuck up your casting rotation.)

2) Wrath. Its been a long time since wrath spam has been the most dps rotation. I was always trying to get enough regen to make MF Starx3 work. Back when I was doing 5 mans I think wrath was still the best, but to say its the max dps for all gear levels is silly.

3) +hit should be capped as soon as you can. However, point for point its not "the end all be all" stat until about 800 spell dmg. Before that socketing spell dmg will be more beneficial.

4) As with most other casters, once you cap hit, all that matters is spell dmg. Gems, enchants, max spelldmg all around. Crit is definatly not your best stat. Spell dmg scales very well with the extra 20% off starfire. Also, haste is nice to pick up, and in most cases is better then crit in those spots its available.

5) As the post above me states, always have Imp FF, always keep it up 100%. Its a huge raid benefit, and tanks having extra threat helps you out a lot.



I also have a question for people who've played with the actual spreadsheet a bit more. Have you found any point that trading in 4pc t5 is viable? I've been passing on all my t6(cept gloves of course), and I just cant find a point, even if i picked up 4pc t6 where I would be able to get out of my t5. I worry that I'm facing a t2 restore issue, where I cant drop t5.....ever....