Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 3

♦ Lorewanderer · 05/20/07, 12:09 AM

I haven't actually done the math to back it up, but I'm going to say with the upcoming patch we'll be decidedly less threat limited and more mana limited with the changes to shadow priests and the addition of balance spells to subtlety.

Efejel · 05/20/07, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lorewanderer

I haven't actually done the math to back it up, but I'm going to say with the upcoming patch we'll be decidedly less threat limited and more mana limited with the changes to shadow priests and the addition of balance spells to subtlety.

The consumables change is also going to be huge in making mana a limiting factor moreso/again. Very few Balance Druids are actually going to "require" 5 pts (or more than 2, for that matter) in Subtlety, unless they can't get BoSalv and/or are putting up with a poor tank.

Originally Posted by Nobbynob Littlun

My question:

-Assuming it is a single-target encounter, I hypothesize it would be viable to "trim" your threat by spending some time healing raid members. Perhaps this would allow a healer to throw down a nuke or two, but let's not assume that.

-How would you theorize this hypothesis? That is, if you are nuking at n% of your potential DPS due to a threat limit, how much time spent healing will reduce your potential DPS to the point that it matches your actual DPS? More trickily, how would you tie this proportion of DPS-to-Healing into the amount of +spellpower and/or +spellcrit you have?

It's a pretty complex question that you can consider this way:

1) What's the most TPS I can put out before I surpass the tank, or risk surpassing the tank with a string of crits? (Note: If you're ~50 TPS below the tank, by 2 minutes into the fight you'll be practically incapable of pulling aggro on a crit chain.)
2) Generating my maximum TPS (wait 10 sec, tank's TPS - 50 for 2 minutes, then my TPS exactly the same as the tank) how much mana would I end the fight with?
3) How much healing can I do with that mana?

As mentioned, the consumables, shadow priest, and subtlety changes are likely going to skew things in favor of DPSing 100% of the time.

Caliane · 05/20/07, 10:28 AM

Finally got a copy of excel to check the spreadsheet out.

Im no expert on spreadsheets.
But for modeling t4 2pc, its based on offensive casts, so the mana regen would have to be tied to the cast rotation. 5% per cast of the rotation.

Btw, its been a long long time since I was in high school or college statistics.
With 95% chance to hit with spells, what is the chances of not missing out of 100 casts?

Oh, and, What exactly am I suppsed to enter for mp/5?
Mp/5 from gear? or mp/5 while casting as shown on the char sheet which includes intensity mp/5?

Caliane · 05/20/07, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Nobbynob Littlun

Apologies for sidetracking the thread, but it seemed as good a place as any to ask this.

Suppose moonkin druids are typically limited by threat rather than mana. It is said that only 50% of amount-healed is converted into threat,.

My question:

-Assuming it is a single-target encounter, I hypothesize it would be viable to "trim" your threat by spending some time healing raid members. Perhaps this would allow a healer to throw down a nuke or two, but let's not assume that.

-How would you theorize this hypothesis? That is, if you are nuking at n% of your potential DPS due to a threat limit, how much time spent healing will reduce your potential DPS to the point that it matches your actual DPS? More trickily, how would you tie this proportion of DPS-to-Healing into the amount of +spellpower and/or +spellcrit you have?

If this question doesnt make sense, let me know.

The threat issues balance face are less overall aggro issues, and more aggro during sensetive times.

Things like nightbane where he drops aggro, or the first 30 seconds of tghe fight where chain crits will cause you to pull.

I haven't looked at any warrior threat spreadsheets, but from experiance I would suspect 1100 threat per second is probably normal?

Under normal dps conditions I dont really have to hold back. its just the first few seconds, if I crit too much, or on deaggro fights.
Although I might have to reconsider that statement under the effects of extra mana regen from priests, manatide. Unlimited mana supply might make aggro and issue that Im not really seeing atm.

Boevis · 05/20/07, 2:16 PM

The only way a warrior can maintain over 1k TPS is as a fury DPS warrior, Prot tanks really can't manage that right now, 900 or lower is a better estimate.

The chance to never miss out of 100 casts with 95% hit/crit is going to be .95^100 = .59% That's in the realm of nearly impossible.

Efejel · 05/20/07, 6:56 PM

Originally Posted by Caliane

Im no expert on spreadsheets.
But for modeling t4 2pc, its based on offensive casts, so the mana regen would have to be tied to the cast rotation. 5% per cast of the rotation.

Oh, and, What exactly am I suppsed to enter for mp/5?
Mp/5 from gear? or mp/5 while casting as shown on the char sheet which includes intensity mp/5?

Yeah, both JoW & T4 2 pc. (and the mana restore meta gem for that matter) are going to be rotation specific. I (possibly) need to redesign the spreadsheet to model them entirely accurately. To a lesser extent, spellsurge & Bangle procs also fall into the "rotation specific effect" category.

The mp5 is supposed to be what your character sheet shows. It then checks intensity & dreamstate talents to figure out how much those two talents are contributing (which will change with your buffs) & assumes the rest is from your gear.

Caliane · 05/22/07, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

The only way a warrior can maintain over 1k TPS is as a fury DPS warrior, Prot tanks really can't manage that right now, 900 or lower is a better estimate.

The chance to never miss out of 100 casts with 95% hit/crit is going to be .95^100 = .59% That's in the realm of nearly impossible.

Right of course. I zoned out when considering the 1100 or so dps I needed to do to pull and forgot to consdier the 130% bubble for ranged dps.
Which would have left that number around 850 threat per second.

that .59% doesnt sound right..

Efejel · 05/23/07, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Caliane

that .59% doesnt sound right..

Consider a 20 sided die (D20). Roll it once (or choose any number from 1-20). Now roll it 100 more times without that number coming up again. That's your odds of going 100 casts without a miss with only 95% hit.

Mathematically, it's expressed as 0.95^100 (or 95 to the 100th power), which works out to 0.0059205292203340254829249648824032, or ~0.592%.

Efejel · 05/25/07, 12:28 AM

Version 0.68 Now Available

Updated items to reflect 2.1 changes
Added Neck & Rings
Added Nature/Arcane specific items (including Spellfire)
Added new items & gems -- SPELL HASTE ITEMS HAVE HASTE IGNORED
NO MECHANICS CHANGES - If you don't want to use gear select, you don't need to download this version

Additional to do:
Figure out how to properly incorporate spell haste.

It's starting to look like the massive spell rotation set-up needs to be done to get everything working properly. I'm not sure I care enough at this point. Anyone interested in taking this up should contact me by PM for suggestions!

Dexter · 05/25/07, 12:20 PM

1st off - awesome spreadsheet! Very nice work indeed!

Seems that whenever I try to use the Windscale Hood on the 'Gear Select' tab, it errors out and replaces all values with #N/A.

-Dex

Efejel · 05/25/07, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dexter

Seems that whenever I try to use the Windscale Hood on the 'Gear Select' tab, it errors out and replaces all values with #N/A.

Thanks, I'm glad you like it. To fix this error (sorry about uploading the sheet with one!) go to "Insert"-->"Name"-->"Define", choose "Helm_Socks_Table" and change "='Helm Sockets'!$A$2:$P$38" to "='Helm Sockets'!$A$2:$P$40" (change the 38 --> 40).

Dexter · 05/25/07, 8:23 PM

Sweet - thanks bunches!

-Dex

Bertio · 05/30/07, 3:07 AM

I am basically using this spreadsheet as a stepping stone to switching my main from an SSC/Eye raiding warrior to a Balance druid, does that count as lavish praise? Please keep up the great work, and continue to stay in touch with the community in case blizzard decides to buff us into what we deserve to be, I want you to be the at the forefront.

pluhi · 06/02/07, 4:16 AM

Great stuff, keep it up!
I have a question about Spellsurge implementaion. Can u add another weapon with it and calculate swapping every minute? Calculate with a few casts (lets say 4-6 in average) to get the proc, then swap back to nuker wep. Depends on spellsurge weapon ofc, but it lowers your DPS for sure. Ntm GCD on swap, lol.

Nerfy · 06/03/07, 11:41 AM

Just noticing in the .68 version that for Inscription of the Orb it is listed as +13dmg when it should be +13crit.