spi

I see what you're saying... However given that i don't cast moonfire more often than once every 15 seconds since i don't clip my moonfire under any circumstances (even if my cycle goes up to 17seconds or so) it will still be negligible if I use the macro right? Instead of fixing rotation to MF, SFx4. Now we're fixing time between moonfire casts to 16 seconds (on average). which means every 16 seconds, i'm losing .1s and this is not affected by haste.

 

hiox

I made some changes that someone might find usefull. I unhid all the different gear tabs so to select the gear you place a lower case x by the gear you want.



For example for the weapon instead of selecting it fromt he gear select tab you go to the weapon tab and place an x by the gear you have. ( you will need to remove the x that is already there. ) If you remove the x first you may get an error it will go away after you but an x back.

Note; for the second ring slot and the trinkets you will need to select them from the gear select tab.

you can also hit the button ( top right) this will work out what the DPS increase is for each peice of gear.
I also set the gear to name to be a link to take you to wowhead.

For Gems it will use whatever the last gems you had selected for that slot.

there is a lootzor tab this will do almost the same thing as the quick add button. But it works out the value of each stat and gives you a link to lootzor.

I find it very usefull hoping someone else might as well.

link: Moonkin_DPS_-_v0.80c_hiox.xls - FileFront.com


thanks,

 

• Adoriele

True. The more Starfires per Moonfire you put out, the less effect both the .1s pseudo-GCD and the 55 extra damage on the last SF have. I was just using MF, SFx4 as an example since I had already run most of the math for it.

 

Ten

I was trying to maximize potential raid dps, so I included every possible buff that I considered reasonable for a raid (flask, food, oil, group buffs, elemental shaman, shadow priest @ 350 mp5). The pre-sunwell t6 I used to maintain was the hat.

Also, I believe that the spreadsheet is somewhat bugged at high levels of haste. It lists the average cast time of starfire as <1s if you have a high crit rate and very high (>1000) haste rating. Regardless of whether these stats are possible to achieve with gear, you cannot achieve a <1s cast time in game at such a "low" level of haste.

 

• Adoriele

There's definitely a bug, though I'm not sure where, if you're getting those answers. You'd need 2372 Haste and 100% crit to get 1s average Starfires.

 

Soultrigger

Maybe I am noob at understanding the spreadsheet, but I dont see anywhere I can find the "cast time" of my skills there. I had to create my own formula to do that. O.o"

On a side note, can we estimate the loss of dps on the switch idol (sf one and mf one)?? It is because in my experience, it always make me lose dps, maybe it is me that is lacking the skill.

 

Kundilaf

I couldn't find it easily either(didn't look all that long though), but I know there is a lot of stuff hidden away in the Shaded Sections. I'd check one of the how long till OOM cells and see if I could track it from there.

I'd also love to model Idol Swapping

 

aeon99

Very nice thread

As I understand haste also reduces the gcd on spells in general down to 1.0 sec. That should mean that haste rating improves all of our spells in dps. So why not just add an IS and also help the tank/raid if u end up early in a cycle? Max dps isnt everything

 

apsod

This issue you're describing might be the same as a bug I've noticed in the spreadsheet a bit ago:

for the Chest piece, putting a gem with a 'red component' (red, orange, etc) would increase the dps incorrectly. Ie:

Putting 3 yellow gems on the chest (not using the chest gem bonus) and 3 yellow gems in the pants (not using the pants gem bonus) would produce, for example 2000 dps.
Exchanging a yellow gems from the pants for a red one would yield 1995dps (again, no pants gem bonus).
But exchanging a yellow gem for a red gem on the chest rather than the pants would yield 2010dps (again, no chest gem bonus).

So, just to ensure this is clear: the exact same gems usage (but spread differently, with no gem bonus ever triggering) would produce different values.

Actually, every extra 'red gem' I would place on the chest would yield a faulty extra 10dps. This only occurs on chest piece and, as far as I could tell, with all chest pieces I tried (T6, Ghostly hatred, sunfire robes). I also noticed some 'unrelated values' would change: ie, changing a 10haste gem for a 12dmg gem on the chest would lower the crit rate% but increase dps value, whereas doing the same operation on the pants would leave the crit alone and decrease my dps by a bit (as expected).

My excel knowledge isn't stellar and the spreadsheet is quite dauntingly large, so I haven't actually been able to pinpoint what's causing this issue, but if you'd like to look into it Ef, I could send you some 'test gear' (although I think the post Ten made a few months ago about his initial haste gear set does show this problem).


Edit:
Oh, another problem I noticed a bit ago and forgot to mention:
Thunderheart Cord: The gem bonus seems to be always on regardless of the gem you actually equip.
Right now, I have a green gem equipped and the bonus (requiring a red gem) is activated.
The problem seems to arise if the 2nd gem slot has a red/orange/purple gem equipped (even though the 2nd slot is not used for this belt). Changing the 2nd gem to a gem that has no red component fixes the issue.

 

• Adoriele

I fail to see the connection between those two statements. For one, IS scales pretty horribly. It gets roughly half the benefit from spell damage as Starfire, and starts off doing less than half the damage. Therefore, in the average case, it is better to extend your cast cycle by a GCD (or so) by casting an extra Starfire while the MF DoT ticks out rather than eat the remaining time with IS. Also, because of Nature's Grace, SF scales faster than IS with Haste. It can also crit, where IS can't.

The main reason IS is used so heavily in early raiding isn't because it helps the tank, but because it's rather mana-efficient. You use less mana per second when you add IS into the mix, and mana is a huge issue until you get geared and/or a pocket Spriest. Once you reach the level you can sustain it, Moonfire is a much better use of a GCD.

 

aeon99

What I mean is that you dont have to think that hard on cycles if you also wish to help out the tank with more avoidance (IS). And if you are using 4xT5, then u also might wanna add an IS before doing SF which otherwise would hit without the +10% increased dmg. And its not always u get the benefit of a spriest - mana might be a factor (especially if you are beginning to stack haste rating).

Even if IS doesnt scale as good as SF, it still gives like 80% of your spell dmg in 1.5 sec. not too shabby for a cheap dot. And if you have the Timbal trinket u also increases the chance to add a little shadow bolt Not max dps but a good raid utility as a moonkin.

 

• Adoriele

So, lemme get this straight. IS, MF, SFxN is a simpler rotation to play with than MF, SFxN? It requires less thought? Yes, the avoidance is a nice perk. Yes, you will want a DoT up on the last SF when you have 4T5. No, you do not want that DoT to be IS. Also, you're rating IS' coefficient too highly. IS gains .667 of your spell damage, just over half that of Starfire. MF gains .743, .864 if you have 2T6. You do have a point about Timbal's, though.

 

aeon99

Thanks for for reply Adoriele.

My cycle depends on the situation.
But one cycle is: MF, SF, SF, SF, IS, SF : repeat
I cant clip any dots and always have a dot up for the SF - regardless NG proc and haste. According to wowwiki IS gets 76% of your dmg and its over 1.5sec compared to 132% dmg over 3sec (be less with crit proc and it can crit). Sure you lose some dps but you gain utility for raid and some mana effieciency. I wont have the T6 bonus for some time so my MF is stuck on the lower efficiency. I doubt I do any better raid wise if I would skip IS at my current T5 level.

So the simplier rotation for me is to avoid not having a dot stacked.

 

• Adoriele

Bagh, teach me not to check my sources more thoroughly. I've been using the number from the Spell Coefficients article on the TTT, which is poorly worded (.1667 is 1/6, so he's trying to say you get 1/6 of .76 per tick, but it comes across as just .1667 per tick). Adjusting for that, it actually becomes pretty damn hard to justify dropping IS from the cycle.

For the record, I also use IS, MF, SFx4, though that's more out of habit than anything else.

 

aeon99

and often encounters forces you to move so you are almost forced to cast the 2 dots to do something useful and hope you can start doing the fun stuff already - nuking!!

optimal is seldom the practical way :/


edit: u to you

 

apsod

I believe I have found the reason for these values.
The problem is that the spreadsheet uses an incorrect formula to calculate haste. It uses this:

NewSpelltime = BaseTime * (1 - Haste%/100)

And, if wowwiki (Casting speed - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft) is to be believed (and my own calculations w/r to actual in-game cast times suggest wowwiki is right) the real formula is:

NewSpellTime = BaseTime / (1 + Haste%/100)

These formulas are contained in the grid: V4:Z5 in the hidden Damage_Calcs sheet.
Fixing them gives dps values which no longer favor haste over hit (the current spread sheet favors haste massively over hit with enough spell damage, in part because with the wrong formula, haste doesn't have any diminishing returns (actually, one could even argue for increasing returns, since a spell haste of 100% gives you a 0 cast time spell, ie, inifinite damage, which is definitely an increasing return on investment)).

 

Chabu123

How many moonkin out there have picked up tailoring specifically for the Sunfire Robe? It is by far the best chest piece in the game so theorectically we should all be tailors correct?

 

• Adoriele

I'd imagine it's a lot like we all should theoretically be Enchanters for the extra 24 spell damage to rings, or Jewelcrafters for the neck and trinkets. There's probably one set of gear which includes one profession (or maybe two), but that doesn't mean we all need to gear for it. I'm Ench/JC because I like the service-oriented jobs more on my main (and gather with my rogue), not because I think it offers the best perks.

 

Saraya

Given how high the demand of the pattern is, I'd suggest actually obtaining it before making the profession switch.

And I think theoretically we should all be ex-enchanters just for the 24 spell damage and have dropped it, then leatherworking for drums, and then either tailoring for robes, engineering for gogglesV2, or jc for the new designs.

 

Tyjet

Small bug:
Typo on the new 2.4 badges ring,

It is called Fused Netherdragon band in the spreadsheet,
It should be called Fused Nethergon Band


Keep up the good work btw!!!!!

 

Efejel

Linked v0.80c to first post. I realize there's a few quick "to do's" on this one, but I recently reinstalled my OS and am currently without spreadsheet software. I also updated the "notes" post to reflect the 0.80c and current "To-do" list. Please to be not pointing out errors if you see them acknowledged there already.

@Hiox - I saw the changes you made and while I appreciate that you've added the expected DPS contribution calcuation for the items, I'm not a big fan of having to go to ~17 pages to set gear, rather than just one. (And then having to go back to that one page to set gems...) I've been planning to try and implement ordered drop-downs on the gear select page, and the gear<->DPS calculations you've already completed will be a big help there.

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

WOWTigra

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Efejel, I'd like to add my voice to the chorus of thank-yous for all the hard work putting together and maintaining the excellent Moonkin DPS spreadsheet.

I'd like to ask though, the next time you're doing an addition to it, to add the new Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone as a trinket option? (If it's already there, I apologize! I looked and didn't see it.) It's pretty straight forward to modify it in the custom boxes on my own (which I have done), but it would be nice to have the option already there.

 

Melador

I'm working on a little dps simulator app, and I have a question about talents, specifically the differences beteween something like Moonfury and Wrath of Cenarius.

One says "Increases the damage done", and the other says "gains an additional X% of bonus damage effects". As I read it, the latter simply increases the +dmg coefficient of the spell, and the former is a multiplier after the +dmg has been applied (that is, it applies to the base damage of the spell as well).

However, the spreadsheet just applies both to the coefficient -- it's just 2% additional per point in Moonfury and 4% additional per point in WoC, multiplicative. Is that a bug in the spreadsheet, or is the tooltip language just misleading? Does anyone know?

 

spi

there is already a simulator made by Lherin which seems to me rather simple and accurate.

Lherin's Moonkin DPS Simultator

 

• Adoriele

Ef does a lookup for the base spell damage based on points in Moonfury because it's not exactly (or even close to) 10% increase.