Rosoo - WWS

There's our parse from earlier in the week. My armory should accurately reflect the gear I was using at the time. I upgraded the hyjal ring after the first 3 bosses, which is why you'll notice no procs of it for the first 3 fights. The only other buffs I could have used to up my DPS just a bit more would be a flask of blinding light (I was using Shat Supreme Power), and chain chugging destro pots for bloodlust and trinket ownage.

If they're willing to reduce the GCD for haste, they may be willing to do so for Nature's Grace. This is a much more important question.

If the GCD is reduced by NG, then Wrath spam may become viable boss DPS (with insane mana per sec requirements) but still play poorly with haste.

If the GCD remains unaffected by NG, the status-quo is relatively unchanged other than opening the possibility of MORE MOONFAHRE SPAM.

I doubt it because our set bonuses/ashtongue etc are starfire dependent...

COS is the biggest reason(among many others) that in raids we will always have to use starfire.

You want to see math behind why increased dmg and reduction of partial resists increases our dps?

Obviously it increases the DPS of Starfire more than it does the DPS of Wrath. But if Wrath is higher DPS to begin with (and it certainly would be higher DPS if NG reduced the global cooldown), then Wrath could still win.

It increases starfire damage because starfire is arcane damage. Wrath is nature damage and isn't affected by it.

Okay, I've read through the whole thread, so I'm not going to ask anything that has been asked and answered previously.

My first question is regarding the [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]. Throughout this thread, it seems like it's considered useless based on the cast time of starfire and the fact that you'd only get two casts off before the buff disappeared. What if, however, you could stack enough haste to get 4x starfires in 8 seconds reliably? This would, in theory, keep the buff up nearly 100% of the time. Would it still be worthless then?
Based on stuff I've read here, NG is applied before spell haste, correct? If so, you'd need 392.5 haste rating in order to reduce your post-NG cast time from 2.5s down to 2.0s. This amount of haste is currently unattainable (assuming you're still keeping 4piece t5/t6).
If not (or if they change it to work this way), you'd need 314 haste rating to get starfire down to 2.0 seconds. This is surprisingly close to an attainable value. While wearing 4piece (all but gloves) t5/t6, you can get up to a maximum of 308 haste rating ([Bracers of Nimble Thought], [Brooch of Nature's Mercy], [Botanist's Gloves of Growth], [Belt of the Crescent Moon], [Footpads of Madness], [Shroud of the Highborne], 2x[Ring of Ancient Knowledge], [Zhar'doom, Greatstaff of the Devourer]), which is 308 haste rating (19.6% haste).
I suppose my question here is just "Is that trinket worthwhile if you can keep it up >75% of the time?" The +dmg seems pretty hard to beat.


Next up, to gear for all haste or not to? Using this spreadsheet, the highest possible dps I've been able to obtain was with 4t6, the abovementioned haste gear, Illidan trinket, and AToE (estimated with 75% uptime for 112.5 +dmg). Since I'm predicting this for my future raiding stats, I've included other stats that I anticipate having (~230 mp5 from a shadow priest, elemental shaman buffs, 100% JoW uptime from the ret paladin, 13% CoS, 50ms latency, treants doing 6k dmg per cast, 15 minute fight, 3 innervates, no potions). This gave me an average dps of ~1850 over the 15 minute fight without going oom doing the MFx2,SFx11 rotation. Based on the fact that I've tried to get higher dps out of the spreadsheet (which is awesome work btw), is it worth just going all out for haste and ignoring crit?
Relevant projected stats with that gear (buffed):
619 int
405 spirit
25.43% crit (not counting starfire talent or set bonus)
16.36% hit
1623 arcane damage
243 mp5
My guess is there's a series of haste thresholds that are optimal to reach and anything between them is useless, but I'm not too familiar with this since I only started looking at it a few days ago.


Is [Quagmirran's Eye] good enough to keep all through end game content? It seems like the 45s internal cooldown would make it fairly less desirable than other trinkets.

Essentially, I'm in a position where I can get whatever I want for gear, but I'm not sure what the best possible gear is.

I got my T5 helm last night and am seriously considering socketing it with the chaotic skyfire diamond as I already meet the socket requirements. I was looking around various parts of the spreadsheet trying to figure out how to change the parameters for this diamond from exactly 2 blue gems to at least 2 blue gems, and can't figure out how.

Efejel, could you please go over this when you have a chance?

Nice spreadsheet.


Can you please put in "Skullfish soup" into buff food selection? (+20 crit)

In general, I can expect to always have a shadow priest and an elemental shaman in my group.

I made a separate list for maxing crit gear (36.5% crit, 1636 +dmg buffed). The projected max dps (MF/SF rotation) for the same 15 minute fight was 1713. Examining the mana consumption, there really doesn't appear to be much difference. Using the same 15 minute fight but subtracting all mana regen except , maximizing crit will make you go oom after about 7 minutes, and maximizing haste will make you go oom after about 6. This means you're running out of mana ~14% faster under those conditions. Maximizing crit only gets you an additional 11% crit at the cost of 60 int and some other negligible stats, meaning you start out with ~1000 more mana in haste gear.

What's fairly interesting about these two sets of gear is that as the fight time decreases, the dps for the two sets evens out. On a 3 minute fight (Gorefiend, Akama), the dps numbers are identical with optimal rotations, and the time till oom (no consumables or regen of any kind) is within 10 seconds. Essentially, testing these without assuming maximum mana regen is useless, because that favors gearing for crit far too much.

Going back for maximum mana regen (JoW, 230mp5 spriest, innervating), the 3 minute fight is vastly different. Neither selection runs oom, and the haste set maintains 1863 dps while the crit set only manages 1698. This is a 9.7% dps difference. An 8 minute fight shows the same results: haste gear outputs 1875dps, crit does 1710. A 9.65% difference.

The results are approximately the same for fights of all lengths. Gearing for maximum haste (308 rating) gives you a ~10% dps increase over gearing for crit. An elemental shaman provides the spell hit necessary to cap the haste geared moonkin, meaning the only difference is crit vs haste since +dmg is approximately the same.

Thus, it SEEMS like haste is always better than crit according to the spreadsheet.



EDIT: I also checked out t5 vs t6 on the spreadsheet. With the crit set, substituting t5 for all the t6 gear gives the same dps for an 8 minute fight. For the haste set, however, it yields 1887 dps, a 12 dps increase. The crit gear's dps with t5 remains about the same for all fight durations, but the haste gear's dps with t5 does increase a little as fights get longer.