Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 55

Laqwanda · 02/04/08, 12:41 AM

I'd like to hear the viablity of wrath spam with haste gear considering the new changes to GCD with spell haste in 2.4?

Efejel · 02/04/08, 4:52 AM

Originally Posted by Naboo9

I got my T5 helm last night and am seriously considering socketing it with the chaotic skyfire diamond as I already meet the socket requirements. I was looking around various parts of the spreadsheet trying to figure out how to change the parameters for this diamond from exactly 2 blue gems to at least 2 blue gems, and can't figure out how.

Efejel, could you please go over this when you have a chance?

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Nysus · 02/05/08, 11:49 AM

I'm currently in the process of gearing up for a Balance respec and have a question about the spreadsheet.

How does the DPS portrayed in the spreadsheet match up to a real time game environment? Obviously this will differ from person to person and fight to fight, but generally how much less dps does everyone get compared to what the spreadsheet says?

Rosoo · 02/06/08, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Nysus

I'm currently in the process of gearing up for a Balance respec and have a question about the spreadsheet.

How does the DPS portrayed in the spreadsheet match up to a real time game environment? Obviously this will differ from person to person and fight to fight, but generally how much less dps does everyone get compared to what the spreadsheet says?

A page or two back you can see a few people throwing up their WWS parses. For mine, I used a MF SFx4 rotation as well as keeping up IFF. The spreadsheet is not an incredibly accurate portrayal of exactly how much you'll be able to do, as every fight has something about it that forces you to not cast for a moment. I found it to be very accurate though when it comes to casting rotations and which will work best depending on how much you get pushed back, how much you have to move etc.

Ambiorix · 02/08/08, 5:26 AM

Originally Posted by Ten

My first question is regarding the [Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium]. Throughout this thread, it seems like it's considered useless based on the cast time of starfire and the fact that you'd only get two casts off before the buff disappeared. What if, however, you could stack enough haste to get 4x starfires in 8 seconds reliably? This would, in theory, keep the buff up nearly 100% of the time.

[snip--haste gear]

I suppose my question here is just "Is that trinket worthwhile if you can keep it up >75% of the time?" The +dmg seems pretty hard to beat.

[snip--gearing for haste over crit?]

My guess is there's a series of haste thresholds that are optimal to reach and anything between them is useless, but I'm not too familiar with this since I only started looking at it a few days ago.

It seems like your uptime estimates are off. To simplify, let's just assume you only cast starfires. Then the "uptime" of the trinket you will be interested in is the percent of your starfires that are affected by the trinket buff. With the (extremely unrealistic) 4x starfires within every 8 second period, whenever you cast a starfire, the buff is up as long as at one of the previous 4 starfires proced, which has probability only 1-(1-.25)^4 ~= 68%, giving about 102 spell damage on average.

With a more realistic 3x starfires in 8 seconds, it's only 1-(1-.25)^3 ~= 57%, giving about 86 spell damage on average.

Even that amount of haste seems a little high for most people though (I won't claim to have tried it out in the spreadsheet, but I'd be surprised if stacking haste/healing items is ever good for dps...). It seems like it shouldn't be too hard though to stack enough haste that you only need to crit with one starfire to be able to fit three in 8 seconds, in which case assuming a 30% crit rate, the chance the buff is up will be 1-(1-.25)^2+.25*((1-.25)^2)*(1-(1-.3)^3)) ~= 53%, giving about 79 damage on average.

Similarly with two crits required to fit three starfires in, it's 47%, or about 70 damage, which seems pretty weak for a BT trinket. As you suggest, there are a bunch of different haste cutoffs where the value of this trinket jumps based on how many starfires you can fit in with various numbers of crits, but it seems like at any reasonable haste level this trinket is far from amazing (though once again, I've oversimplified by considering only starfire, not counting heroism, etc.).

Carisana · 02/08/08, 2:57 PM

Next week, you guys should see your first 2k dps Boomkin. Madrox finally got his Zhardoom and had a nice Hyjal. He would have broken 2k on Rage last night but the mt died (don't ask not really sure lol). He still needs a Skull of Guldan so there is still even room for improvement over that.

But did pull off 1,942 on Anetheron
WWS Loading...

He still did mid 1800's on Rage even with the debacle and 1,830 on Kaz.

Moginheden · 02/09/08, 10:03 PM

2.4 has 2 notes I noticed:
# Idol of the Unseen Moon: The cooldown added in a previous patch has been removed.
# Spell Haste: Spell haste now reduces the global cooldown on spells, down to a minimum of 1 second. This change does not apply to melee and ranged abilities.

Since haste will not change the GCD from idol swaping from what I can see. Is the unseen moon idol worth using again? Will the extra GCD time from swaping in this idol still kill it? Will wrath no longer be worth swapping idols for when using both wrath and starfire?

I know it was originaly suggested to have 2 starfire macros, one for unseen moon one for ivory moongoddess. Pesonally I find in real battles I don't know at the time I cast starfire if a moonfire, another starfire, or some other spell will be next becuase I'm not just sitting there concentrating on my spell rotation, other things are happening in the fight. Do others find the same or doI just need to concentrate more?

Celdhyrean · 02/09/08, 10:59 PM

They are also upping several other idols, amongst which :
* Idol of the Raven Goddess: The bonus healing, critical strike rating, and spell critical strike rating from this item have been increased. In addition, it no longer sometimes fails to apply the healing bonus.

Was somebody already able to get info on this ?

♦ Lorewanderer · 02/10/08, 2:13 AM

Originally Posted by Celdhyrean

They are also upping several other idols, amongst which :
* Idol of the Raven Goddess: The bonus healing, critical strike rating, and spell critical strike rating from this item have been increased. In addition, it no longer sometimes fails to apply the healing bonus.

Was somebody already able to get info on this ?

44 heal (up from 20) , 20 crit rating (up from 9)

Margot · 02/10/08, 2:06 PM

I'm sure the new caster Meta will be lower dps than Chaotic, but it would be nice to have it modelled anyways:

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ry/newmeta.jpg

Benita · 02/10/08, 9:40 PM

@Ambiorix

The biggest disadvantage this trinket had was that it did not affect the SF it procs of, if it wore off before. Do you actually calculate this part in or did that change in some patch since 2.1? I never bothered to test it after that.
Basically you can get 2 or 3 SF on a double crit in a fresh procs duration, which meant without massive use of crit or haste rating its effect was worse than quags eye even on chain casting SF.

♦ Lorewanderer · 02/10/08, 10:32 PM

I've got to say I'm excited about the new loot from Sunwell. 8 pieces of t6 means we either get a really amazing (>4) piece bonus, (which honestly I doubt) or can get the 4pc on both t5 and t6.

I'll be messing around with the spreadsheet to see how the new haste gems stack up, but I've got to say it looks promising.

Efejel · 02/11/08, 6:47 AM

Version 0.80c released! >>>Link to FileFront.com<<<

v0.80a changes
-DPS Comparison sheet added
-Healing items (epics of iLvl 100 or greater, leather only for 8 main slots) added
--Please make me aware of any cloth items that must be added b/c of w/e reason
-Currently expected 2.4 items added
--Except healing items, sorry. But, hey, it's not like you can wear it today anyways!
-NO 2.4 MECHANICS CHANGES
--Will need better idea of the spirit change & the effect of NG on GCD before delving into this
-Weapons now support gems
-Possibly other changes--have been working on this/delaying so long I forget
v0.80b
-Fixed belt sockets, weapon sockets/gems
-Added auto-detect for Windhawk 3-pc. bonus, added detection for new T6 pieces to the auto-detect on 2- & 4-pc. bonuses
-Updated Raven idol to 20 crit rating (this means it's wrong for current in-game calcs, add a -11 crit to the custom to correct)
-Added the ability to see the total change to in-combat mp5 as a result of the 2.4 spirit changes
-Added Royal Cloak of the Sunstriders back (whoops on losing it between versions)
-Added more 2.4 cloth gear
--Set fight to demonstrate haste-stacking DPS
-Added [Skullfish Soup] to food buffs
-Added mana potion option for PvP/Major/Unstable mana pots
-Added DPS penalty for Major Dreamless Sleep potions
v0.80c
-Added addt'l 2.4 items, especially badge & Sunwell loots, and epic haste gems
-Updated the base in-combat mp5 calcs to account for the 2.4 spirit changes
INNERVATE CALCULATION NOT YET UPDATED
No other substantial changes, though hopefully some minor bugs I'm forgetting the specifics of have been fixed.

TO DO:
Implement 2.4 innervate calcualations.
Update GCD for 2.4 haste changes & display (somewhere) haste-modified "base" casting time of spells.
Add [Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone], [Grand Magister's Staff of Torrents].
Fix name of [Fused Nethergon Band]

Efejel · 02/11/08, 7:12 AM

For my own notes:

Originally Posted by Celdhyrean

Would it be possible to have a default gem setting for blue/red/yellow slot type, and to be able to override it when entering specifig gems for the items, as it's done now ?

Originally Posted by Saraya

Efejel! I found a small problem! As we all know, your spell must hit in order to crit, unlike melee attacks. Currently the way it is being calculated on the spreadsheet slightly favors crit and gives less credit to hit.

Sheet uses one-roll, two-roll may be more accurate for spells

Originally Posted by Sstixx

Not sure if this is possible with an Excel spreadsheet (or if you are inclined to add this) but I would love to see the ability to indicate which gear you have available (not just equipped), the importance you personally place on each stat, and the ability for the guide to recommend what gear you should equip.

Originally Posted by Maax

Could you add an option for having more than one of totem of wrath? I am occasionally grouped with 2 elemental shamans and the totem stacks. Also could you display somewhere what the cast time of starfire/wrath/regrowth is with the current amount of haste rating? Also could it list somewhere, based on talents/how many totems you are getting, how much hit rating is needed to cap.

Also could you add the new [Mad Alchemist's Potion] to the mana restore effects section?

Originally Posted by Thermomenes

Does the current spreadsheet assume FF in the cast cycles? How can I alter the Mystical Skyfire Diamond proc rate and cooldown? Any luck on the new idol proc?

Originally Posted by Mossface

Anyways to get this back on track, has there been any talk of adding downnranked spells to the spreadsheet.

To-do list, indeed.

Murph · 02/11/08, 9:08 AM

Hi Efejel,

Firstly, many thanks for all your effort in producing and maintaining this spreadsheet - I have been finding it extremely useful in tuning my equipment and techniques to squeeze just that little bit extra damage out during long boss fights. For reference, I'm 56/0/5 spec, currently working on finishing Karazhan and starting Zul Aman.

One small request is for you to add the Windhawk set bonus automatically. I've patched this in myself by adding a new row to the Set Bonus Calcs sheet, and here's the formula for column D for your convenience:

=IF(SUM(IF(Bracer_Select="Windhawk Bracers";1;0);IF(Belt_Select="Windhawk Belt";1;0);IF(Chest_Select="Windhawk Hauberk";1;0))<3;FALSE();TRUE())

I'm then just adding it to the mp5 from gear by changing L7 on Gear Select to "=SUM(L8:L94)+IF(Wh3;8;0)", obviously naming the relevant cell in column C of the Set Bonus Calcs sheet as Wh3. I don't think it needs the ability to be manually selected, but I'm not entirely sure what your motivation for having that functionality is.

I think I have also found some bugs in the new rows of the Gear Select sheet added for weapon gems in v0.80a. Cells N84:N86 have ";12)" at the end of the forumla, which seems to be erroneously adding 36 nature damage to my gear. Changing to ";0)" produces the result I expect. Less importantly (for me), cells U84:W86 seem to erroneously refer to the chest item, not the weapon. Other than that, it appears to be produce the same results for me as v0.72c or v0.80beta.

Thanks again, and keep up the good work! :-)