Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 59

Tarranus · 02/29/08, 8:13 AM

I'm thinking it's time to create a new moonkin theory crafting post. This post should be dedicated to Efejel's work on the spreadsheet. Anyone else agree?

Efejel · 02/29/08, 12:06 PM

I'm not opposed to either scenario. If theorycrafting continues in here, it will keep this post bumped & visible to Moonkin discovering the forum for the first time.

OTOH, if someone is interested in writing up a guide and/or starting a theorycrafting post, I'm sure we can easily cross-link, and questions about the spreadsheet as well as "heads-up" type warnings from people finding errors in the spreadsheet will be more visible.

Caanrial · 02/29/08, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Lorewanderer

For point 1, that's based on the 2.4 spirit changes. On live servers you'll still want Dreamstate. If the spirit regen changes go live as they are, that's when dreamstate will become the inferior choice. Naturally you'll be able to get both with some sacrifices but Intensity should suffice if you have access to a shadow priest.

(e) Using the spreadsheet on the spirit mechanics thread and using my personal stats, I'd get 121 mp5 from 3/3 Intensity and 56 mp5 from 3/3 Dreamstate, with 450 int/253 spi unbuffed. If you want the answer as it pertains to you, go get the spreadsheet and plug in your own numbers. Given that my numbers for int/spi are reasonably close to what many raiding moonkin will have, I think it is safe enough to say that it will usually be the case.

For the second, that sounds a bit low, but anything further is difficult to tell without knowing what your group setup is like (and the armory isn't being nice to me tonight). Post a WWS and we might be able to provide some feedback. The trees are quite useful in raids if you time them well, so don't discount them as a viable raid talent.

Here is a WWS from a recent Lurker kill. Pretty typical raid composition, I luckily usually get the spriest & a shammy. Also, try the Armory again and see if you can give me a few gear suggestions. As I said earlier I think I've enchanted & gemmed appropriately, I just think that my DPS should be higher than it is. I normally can not out-dps our well-geared rogue & hunter, but sometimes there is an anomaly...this particular WWS Lurker run includes NO trash, only the boss, from fishing him out to the kill. Last night on Tidewalker I was 2nd on the damage meters, right under our uber-rogue! :-)

Cdin · 02/29/08, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by Caanrial

Here is a WWS from a recent Lurker kill. Pretty typical raid composition, I luckily usually get the spriest & a shammy. Also, try the Armory again and see if you can give me a few gear suggestions. As I said earlier I think I've enchanted & gemmed appropriately, I just think that my DPS should be higher than it is. I normally can not out-dps our well-geared rogue & hunter, but sometimes there is an anomaly...this particular WWS Lurker run includes NO trash, only the boss, from fishing him out to the kill. Last night on Tidewalker I was 2nd on the damage meters, right under our uber-rogue! :-)

Wow! Maybe it's just the way my guild does Lurker but I have never seen a Melee DPS in the top 5 DPS let alone number one on Lurker. We've had great rogues that top the charts on other fights but Lurker is very Ranged Friendly.

Anyway to your questions. Here are couple things that I noticed.
1. It looks like you rezed someone. Depending on how close they were to you that can reduce your DPS significantly.

2. Gems: A few of your choices look a little strange to me. In your belt upgrade the red socket to a Runed Living Ruby. In the yellow socket you have an ok heroic gem, but a Vieled Nobal Topaz or even a Potent Nobal Topaz would be better. In your Boots you have a Heroic gem with Spell pen. I would replace it with a Runed Living Ruby also, but a Vieled Noble Topaz would be fine also. Spell Pen is useless in pve, so you are wasting stats there.

3. Are you being limited by mana at all in the fight? It didn't sound like it from your comments but if you are I would switch your three points in Celestial Focus to Intensity. Heck I would probably do that anyway since Celestial Focus has very little value in PvE.

4. Enchants: They look good for the most part. I prefer the 20 spell damage to gloves instead of 15 spell hit but it is an understandable choice at your gear level. I know you know this already but get your aldor rep up for the better shoulder enchant.

5. Maybe I am reading the report wrong but where was curse of shadows?

Naboo9 · 03/01/08, 3:02 PM

I've been working w/Efejel's uberkin spreadsheet for a few months now (btw, kudos and much thanks, Ef). A while back I noticed I was having an issue with my dps supposedly increasing when selecting crit over hit. For example, selecting Adornment of Stolen Souls over Brooch of Unquenchable Fury provided me with a dps increase, even though it decreased my hit by 15 points under the cap (I'm sitting at 151). With another boomkin's help we figured it was because I had the Draenei racial & shaman totems selected. Once this was remedied, whenever I selected any gem/weapon/armor in the spreadsheet that decreased my hit, it displayed a corresponding dps decrease, as it should.

I am now experiencing the same problem again, without having the Draenei racial/shaman totems selected. No matter what I seem to change in the spreadsheet I get a dps increase by losing hit (i.e. putting myself below the hit cap) and gaining crit. I've tried it in the new version of the sheet and the previous version. I'm stumped. Any ideas, folks?

Flavius · 03/02/08, 5:01 AM

Originally Posted by Naboo9

I've been working w/Efejel's uberkin spreadsheet for a few months now (btw, kudos and much thanks, Ef). A while back I noticed I was having an issue with my dps supposedly increasing when selecting crit over hit. For example, selecting Adornment of Stolen Souls over Brooch of Unquenchable Fury provided me with a dps increase, even though it decreased my hit by 15 points under the cap (I'm sitting at 151). With another boomkin's help we figured it was because I had the Draenei racial & shaman totems selected. Once this was remedied, whenever I selected any gem/weapon/armor in the spreadsheet that decreased my hit, it displayed a corresponding dps decrease, as it should.

I am now experiencing the same problem again, without having the Draenei racial/shaman totems selected. No matter what I seem to change in the spreadsheet I get a dps increase by losing hit (i.e. putting myself below the hit cap) and gaining crit. I've tried it in the new version of the sheet and the previous version. I'm stumped. Any ideas, folks?

I think you'll find that it's not choosing crit over hit, it's choosing 23 crit and 2 spell damage over 15 hit. Hit isn't ALWAYS better than crit, especially as you approach or reach the cap as it becomes less useful, but point for point it's better. I find people tend to put too much weight on hit rating and lose sight of the fact that every stat has diminishing returns (except maybe spell damage not sure about that one) and that the lower the stat is the more you'll get for it per point. So your hit is high and your crit is probably low and that's why 2 spell damage and 23 crit wins out over 15 hit.

Maax · 03/02/08, 5:37 AM

I have read that Timbal's Focusing Crystal can crit, does anyone know if that crit procs nature's grace?

boomchicken · 03/02/08, 11:50 PM

I was wondering after capping spell hit at 152 what should you focus on your gems to, spell damage, spell crit?

• Adoriele · 03/03/08, 1:01 AM

Originally Posted by boomchicken

I was wondering after capping spell hit at 152 what should you focus on your gems to, spell damage, spell crit?

Good thing there's a handy dandy spreadsheet in the first post to help you answer the question. In general, Hit > Damage > Crit. Your gear will change that relationship.

boomchicken · 03/03/08, 1:14 AM

Yep I have been using the spreadsheet, just was wondering what the general rule of thumb is.

kapge · 03/03/08, 2:45 AM

I just wanted to show some hope to other moonkins that being a viable spec is possible.

Our WWS from our first night of illidan attempts: Wow Web Stats

p.s.I WTB an elemental shaman, our guild lacks shaman only 2 resto and 1enhancment as mains. I think i can take the warlock once i get a elemental shaman.

superj · 03/03/08, 4:48 AM

Looking into switching from resto to balance and was curious as to how good the deathsworm trinket is with 25% chance on starfire to proc 8 seconds of 150 + spell damage. Running a 2x mf 11x starfire rotation it would seem that theoretically this trinket would be up more than 50% of the time. Is it better than picking up a blessings deck? Other trinket is an icon until I can possibly get the za trinket.

Saraya · 03/03/08, 6:12 AM

Reading the last few pages makes me think that the suggested idea of making a new thread to deal with general moonkin theorycraft would be good. The original poster would ideally be able to keep it updated, so while I'll start to compile some information, I'm feeling like my interest in WoW is starting to wane, and it might be better to have someone more stable to do it.

General rule of thumb for gems:
Spell hit = 1.2 spell damage
Spell crit = 0.7 spell damage
Use whatever gem gives you the highest total value.

The same concept applies to gear, so while a ring like Ashyen's Gift - Items - World of Warcraft gives you plenty of spell hit, Corruptor's Signet - Items - World of Warcraft is better for DPS despite having the less efficient spell crit on it.

In the end, you still need to use the spreadsheet to determine what's best for you as the values above are only approximations.

---

The ashtongue trinket seems like it'd be pretty strong, if the trinket really has no internal cooldown per the last comment on wowhead. 8 seconds at a 25% rate can be approximated with 2 seconds each starfire, or 22 seconds total. Assuming 0 crits and no spell haste, your rotation would be 36 seconds. This is approximately a 61% uptime, or about a +91 damage effect. Of course a proc while the proc is already up does not gain the full benefit since it just resets the timer, but you are also very likely to get NG procs and have spell haste, so I think over all it'd be better than the blessings deck, which is basically a +80 damage trinket.

The order for the trinkets you listed is probably icon < blessings < ashtongue~=hex. I'm not sure how much the blessings deck runs on your server, but I'm not sure if it'd be worth the investment for the improvement over the icon if you're actively running ZA.

Naboo9 · 03/03/08, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by Flavius

I think you'll find that it's not choosing crit over hit, it's choosing 23 crit and 2 spell damage over 15 hit. Hit isn't ALWAYS better than crit, especially as you approach or reach the cap as it becomes less useful, but point for point it's better. I find people tend to put too much weight on hit rating and lose sight of the fact that every stat has diminishing returns (except maybe spell damage not sure about that one) and that the lower the stat is the more you'll get for it per point. So your hit is high and your crit is probably low and that's why 2 spell damage and 23 crit wins out over 15 hit.

I used the neckpieces simply as an example. As far as I can see, when fighting a raid boss (level 73 elite), a drop in my spell hit by say 30 points, to 122 (which, IMO is pretty far away from the hit cap), should practically never result in a dps increase. There certainly are tradeoffs when choosing between any 2 stats, but it still doesn't explain the values the spreadsheet is displaying, and why it differs from what I have observed previously. I still suspect there is an error somewhere, and am hoping someone can point me in a specific direction.

• Adoriele · 03/03/08, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by Naboo9

As far as I can see, when fighting a raid boss (level 73 elite), a drop in my spell hit by say 30 points, to 122 (which, IMO is pretty far away from the hit cap), should practically never result in a dps increase.

Why not? 30 hit is approximately 2.5% DPS, slightly more depending on how much hit you have. (In your example, it's about 2.525%, nothing extraordinary). Depending on how much spell damage you have, that's easily overcome. For example, in half-Kara gear, a [Runed Living Ruby] was worth more DPS for me than a [Veiled Noble Topaz], or a [Great Dawnstone], even though it was only 1 more damage than hit.