Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 64

Benita · 03/19/08, 6:56 AM

Originally Posted by Maax

With Imp Divine Spirit +15 spirit is also 1.5 spell damage so it wins there too (assuming you have an iDS priest).

10% of 6 spirit is 0.6 spelldamage
25% of 6 int is 1.5 spelldamage unless you skip lunar guidance.

♦ Lorewanderer · 03/19/08, 7:15 AM

Originally Posted by Grifter730

There's an error for the neck piece Adornment of Stolen Souls. Is there a way to fix this?

See post #920

kilka · 03/20/08, 3:20 AM

Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster. I was wondering if anyone has managed to find the best possible gear for a Balance druid using the DPS spreadsheet. I am currently in a BT raiding guild and have access to pretty much all the gear currently in the game. I have messed around with a lot of configurations, and just can't seem to get rid of my 4 piece t5 :/

Any help is greatly appreciated,

-Overlord

Soultrigger · 03/20/08, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Zene

In the end, the less threat you produce means the more damage you can do. Hydross is a bad fight for tank threat since they are mostly wearing resist gear which do not provide very good threat generating stats. Clearly, you should watch your aggro on this fight especially. Are you finding threat issues with other fights?

In any case, what I've seen boomkins do is take points out of Celestial Focus (hurts soloing a tiny bit but not that useful for raid bosses) and in your case put the rest into Sublety. It's worth it. Thats really all you can do as far as threat. The rest is up to the tank or one common thing my guild has started doing is dropping tranquil air totem in the heavy caster group for the first portion of the fight (or all of it depending), before switching over to wrath of air. This may help you and other dps do more damage if they are also threat capped.

We got up to Leotheras now, our little fusion to make both guilds work seems to be fine. ^^

About the Threat, it is true the question was about the gear tank, but the tank has also a bit of lack of skill, so I did get 4/5 subtely.

I still got some mana issues, probably shall be fixed when the rest of the guild can break 1k+ dps as I do, since most dps are areound 400-600 dps. :/

But until then, I am afraid I won´t have a shadow priest pet around forever, so I am looking into solutions.

Since probably I will let the others get T5 before me, since I consider my badge gear quite good.

So here goes a question, how does compare the Sorceror Alchemist stone 63 dmg/40% extra mana from pots agains Quag Eye 37 dmg/haste procs??

I removed the Eye from my trinkets and I manually added 63 dmg, the result was that my dps went from 1305 to 1320 dps in the spreadsheet. So I wonder, does the new sorceror is better or somewhat equal in results to the eye?? If so, it should ease my pain with mana.

telcontar · 03/20/08, 12:21 PM

If I remember correctly, procs and on-use effects are not modeled in the spreadsheet; so the dps increase you are seeing is simply 37 damage --> 63 damage. You'll have to evaluate the haste proc vs increased Mp5 from mana pots yourself.

Efejel · 03/20/08, 2:07 PM

Alchemist Stone should be better than Quag's Eye even when you're not potting, the addt'l static damage is far less situational than an uncontrollable haste proc.

Alleine/Alaterial · 03/23/08, 1:30 PM

Also, haste is really more of a tier 6 level stat.

It's far easier to itemize for in BT/Hyjal, and should be stacked only when you have an appropriate base level of hit, damage and crit.
Haste can be completely counterproductive if you have mana issues - if you can only do 30,000 mana's worth of DPS before going OOM during an 8 minute fight, then haste will only help you to do the same DPS faster and will not contribute to your overall DPS values.

Traditionally, haste is stacked along side tier 6 - which is the only way that tier 6 > tier 5.

Amiran · 03/24/08, 4:41 PM

I just attempted to use the spreadsheet but it refuses to return any numbers for DPS just #NA. An y ideas as to what could be the problem?

♦ Lorewanderer · 03/24/08, 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by Amiran

I just attempted to use the spreadsheet but it refuses to return any numbers for DPS just #NA. An y ideas as to what could be the problem?

Adornment of Stolen Souls as the neck, probably. There's a fix posted a page or two back.

Zene · 03/24/08, 6:27 PM

Just curious of peoples thoughts, regarding starfire overtaking wrath. Other than "at higher spell damage" starfire is better I have not seen any specific numbers. If there are, please point me there. Thanks.

Using the spreadsheet and messing with specific "other manual entry" fields I was trying to see when it would be best to switch rotations of Wrath over to Starfire.

This assumes hit capped, crits shown below are base crit, +5% in moonkin form, and differing spell damages. All other buffs have been removed except the ones listed (other than various mp5 buffs to make sure that OOM is not reached for 3 minutes, I also tried increasing duration length to 5 and 10 but as long as OOM was not reached results did not vary)

** With no Idol **
15% base crit,  750 spell dmg =  IS, MF, Wrathx7
15% base crit, 1000 spell dmg =  IS, MF, Wrathx7
15% base crit, 1250 spell dmg =  MF, Wrathx8
15% base crit, 1500 spell dmg =  MF, Wrathx8

(really 19.9%)
20% base crit,  750 spell dmg  = IS, MF, Wrathx7
20% base crit, 1000 spell dmg  = MF, Wrathx8
20% base crit, 1250 spell dmg  = MF, Wrathx8
20% base crit, 1500 spell dmg  = MF, Wrathx8

(I noticed the same trend with 25% crit as well)


** With Starfury Idol **
15% base crit,  750 spell dmg =  IS, MF, Wrathx7
15% base crit, 1000 spell dmg =  IS, MF, Wrathx7
15% base crit, 1250 spell dmg =  MF, Wrathx8
15% base crit, 1500 spell dmg =  MF, Wrathx8

20% base crit,  750 spell dmg  = IS, MF, Wrathx7
20% base crit, 1000 spell dmg  = MF, Wrathx8
20% base crit, 1250 spell dmg  = MF, Wrathx8
20% base crit, 1500 spell dmg  = MF, Wrathx8

Just for fun
20% base crit, 2000 spell dmg = MF, Wrathx8

I did not try with the Wrath idol as it would only lean in favor of more Wrath spam.

It is only when you add Curse of Shadows that Starfire seems to perform better. With CoS up I notice the ideal rotation to use is IS, MF, SFx3. (this applies with 15% base crit and 500 spell dmg and I tested it up to 2000 spell dmg and 20% base crit 500 spell dmg up to 1435 spell dmg)

Once you get 20% base crit and 1436 spell damage the better rotation changes to MF, SFx3, W

So I am just curious here, but I thought with enough spell damage Starfire would at some point overtake Wrath spam. I can't seem to generate these results with the spreadsheet. This of course assumes you do not run out of mana.

Also, I realize the spreadsheet is not perfect but can anyone account for why the results may not have been different if you did expect them to differ?

P.S. This doesn't account for haste which is much more readily available in later stages of the game. For example, 20% crit, 1250 spell damage needs about 39 spell haste to have MF, SFx3, W outperform IS, MF, SFx3 with the Starfire Idol.

EDIT: Formatting

Benita · 03/24/08, 6:57 PM

Short Answer: T5, T6, CoS

Even a combination of these can be applied and make SF alot more dps on top of being better dpm.

Saraya · 03/24/08, 11:06 PM

For pure theorycrafting, your results are probably right. Aside from the reasons in Benita's post, you also need to factor in latency when you cast spells. It's tough for me to chain cast because I'm overseas, but I imagine there's some significant lag when raiding even if you're in Irvine. So if you factor in adding an extra 0.1 second per spell due to lag/latency, Starfire becomes a 3.1 cast where 2 wraths would be 3.2. I probably get an average of 0.2 thanks to variations in latency. This favors starfire over wrath.

In addition, even with a shadowpriest, I'm seriously skeptical that it'd be possible to last a full fight doing wrath spam. It takes almost 40% more mana compared to starfire.

When results differ from what you expect, it's because the spreadsheet operates on averages where the game rolls the dice. Hit merely lowers negative variation and crit raises positive variation. So if you're not hit capped and you have a lot of crit, there will be some fights where you absolutely cream everyone because all of your spells magically hit and you got an exorbitant amount of crits. Of course, there will be other fights where you get resisted up the wazoo and no crits register. The spreadsheet just tells you on average where you'll be. And it's good to be better, on average.

Acearan · 03/25/08, 2:34 AM

Originally Posted by Efejel

Yeah, I'm not. I'll definitely consider looking at that before I get to a version I'm willing to call 1.x. It's going to be a very very slight boost to DPS of the two Starfire + Moonfire cycles.

ok so i jsut went moonkin (lvl 40) on my alt and ovbiously ive seen that wrath, does less amg than starfire,but it is faster. im assuming for lvling pourposes that wrath is beter to use because of the ignore cast inturupt talents. am i assuming correctly? also for raiding/instances porposes whats the best cast sequence to use. also if you have any advice, id be glad to hear it.

Benita · 03/25/08, 7:09 AM

Originally Posted by Acearan

ok so i jsut went moonkin (lvl 40) on my alt and ovbiously ive seen that wrath, does less amg than starfire,but it is faster. im assuming for lvling pourposes that wrath is beter to use because of the ignore cast inturupt talents. am i assuming correctly? also for raiding/instances porposes whats the best cast sequence to use. also if you have any advice, id be glad to hear it.

Yes, if a mob hits you, put up MF and IS if its off and the mob is living for the dots duration, then either pop barkskin and SF it down or wrath spam. You can also use entangling roots and move 3y. Then SF at least once, wrath breaks the roots faster.

As for sequences, 60% of this thread is about that with a summary or repeated answer every 4 pages or so. How are the moonkin guide threads coming along?

Grifter730 · 03/25/08, 9:05 AM

Originally Posted by Zene

Just curious of peoples thoughts, regarding starfire overtaking wrath. Other than "at higher spell damage" starfire is better I have not seen any specific numbers. If there are, please point me there. Thanks.

I believe the reasoning that people use SF instead is due to mana reasons -- as in, you generally will go oom chain-casting Wrath. That's why Wrath spam is recommended for trash instead of bosses.