Well gurtogg is a special fight, when we used to do it everyone wanded/dotted until third felrage or so. It's not a DPS-race either, just keep doing what you're doing and don't worry too much about it.

You should probably switch to Omen for your threatmeter. It may just be that your tanks aren't generating enough threat because they're trying to stay around the same level, as the IS-MF-SFx3 rotation shouldn't be an issue.

On an unrelated note- does anyone know if there's a haste level where Idol swapping becomes a really bad idea? I've been swapping the Unseen Moon in for my MF casts, but it's starting to become an annoyance.

When it becomes an annoyance.

Seriously, if you're clobbering your rotations by incurring GCDs from idol swapping, you're losing a lot of DPS. It's really a personal thing, not something that can be incredibly accurately modeled.

Hey all, I'm currently at 1165 spell damage unbuffed. I am also using the Darkmoon Card: Crusade. How much of the card's damage should I take into consideration when applying the " spell damage-1077" rule for acquiring haste? Apply the 80 damage to my total or is there some fancy math to get a more accurate reflection of my average spell damage? Thanks for any advice.

Nah, just use 80.

Use Omen.
Shamans drop tranquil air.
Swap in anti-threat trinkets.
Bloodboil dps meters highly favours dps classes with threatdrops/felenrages.

Imp FF is improving tank threat, for everyone in the raid.
If you find yourself threat capped for alot of fights in BT, I highly suggest dropping points from other dps talents for Subtlety. It will be more dps overall.
Balance of Power if you find yourself over the hit cap.
Dreamstate/Moonglow, if you don't mind chugging some more pots.
etc.

Cydruid looks like he's casting more, and more appropriate spells when he does cast:

On Mag:
Cydruid 81 SF, 37 MF, 13 Wrath
Celysa 69 SF 45 MF, 45 Wrath
I was too lazy to figure out the timing on IS uptime, but you should check that too.

Though looking through, it seems he got a Heroism while she didn't, for both Mag and Gruul. That shouldn't account for the full disparity, but it will add to the number of spells cast.

He is doing better than she is at spell usage (I'm surprised to see either of them casting it), trinkets (he uses his much more) That will drastically overcome the slight gear gap he has in comparison.

Have them work on button mashing skills, use quartz, and stop using wrath as much. Tie trinkets to a primary nuke if they can't remember to hit them manually.
They're hit capped, which is great. honestly, neither of them are doing awfully for the content you're on. Plenty of room for improvement, but they're both heading in the right direction, and seem to be gearing up cluefully.

That one of the notes from the 2.4.3 patch WoW Test Realm Patch Notes
Does that mean no more idol swapping?

Thanks for that, I've forwarded the help to her, and hopefully she'll spend some more time reading this thread. Much appreciated.

Yeah.

Yes and no. If you swap only on instant casts, you'll be fine, since you can't cancel an instant, but that means you'll have to do something like:

IS (swap in MF idol)
MF (swap in normal [SF, Raven] idol)
SFxN

And that would rely on being able to get the benefit from the MF idol even if you swap it out at the same time. It also ties you to using IS, which isn't a bad thing if you're using it to help out your tanks anyway, but it's a piss-poor spell once you're out of Kara. I'd be surprised if the extra damage gained from a perfect 50% proc rate on the MF idol outweighs the DPS loss from including IS.

So with the likelihood that idol swapping will no longer work - what would be the best idol to run with if you're group doesn't need the Raven-Goddess one? I'm assuming it's as simple as the Wrath idol for a wrath rotation and the starfire idol for a starfire rotation all the while keeping the moonfire idol tied to moonfire casting.

Perhaps I'm missing something?

Not really. I'm not sure if spell haste has an effect on the GCD incurred by weapon swapping, but the reason we swapped during SF was because there was just no reason not to. We're already locked out of doing something else during the cast, might as well make it more effective. Now, there's a reason not to. It interrupts your cast. So we're limited to swapping on casts that can't be interrupted, i.e. instants.

Waiting for the next step where they count as armor and not a weapon (aka can't swap at all).

This will probably be pretty useful once my Boomkin hits 70. Thanks

For a wrath-spam rotation, I'm seeing haste=spell (point for point) at about 965 +spell (and zero haste). Anyone care to check my math?

Wrath DPS = (405 + (2/3.5+.1)*spell)*(1+haste/1570)*other_stuff

Seems like any Balance (at least with no mana problems) will prefer Guardian's Pendant of Subjugation over the Dominance pendant (trading 6 Int, 7 Spell, and 4 stamina for 24 haste).

perhaps you have inspiring prescence checked (the draenei racial group buff) accounting for 1% spellhit making cap 136-137

First off, let me say thank you so much for putting the effort into making the moonkin dps spreadsheet, its been immensely helpful!

I have a question about what I am guessing is a glitch somewhere in the math, but which I wanted to run by everyone here (especially ef) about the gemming of some of my gear. On two occasion, I have had stamina gems in sockets, one in a yellow slot(no socket bonus) and one in a blue slot(socket bonus of 2 damage). Both times, when I have replaced the gems with reckless pyrestones (5haste, 6damage) on the spreadsheet, I have seen significant losses in DPS on the spread sheet numbers. Each time I have changed the gems my DPS has dropped by around 15 DPS. I'm not losing any set bonuses, all I'm doing is gaining haste and damage at the expense of stamina. What gives?

-Edit-

I believe I have figured my issues out, I was losing the amount of blue gems required for my meta to work, resulting in an overall loss. First post ever gone to waste! oh well

Would be a nice addition to generate links to Loot Rank for WoW, or similar sites, on the DPS page. (clickable or just for c&p)
Like the Yo! simulator does it for enchancement shamans

no, it's not checked..being alliance i always check together wrath totem+insp presence, to make calculations for being with or without shammy...i still guess there's something wrong in the xls on this

I try and read thru all the pages in this thread but there are some conflicting views, this seems to stem from the lack of SWP level boomkin population. Currently I run at about 1250~ arcane damage( i use sunfire instead of spell damage) raid buffed is about 1400~, 25%~ base crit in moonkin and 200~ haste. My starfire is casts at about 2.5 I roll with 4/8 T6 i switch my gear around based on group synergy and also to test live numbers instead of the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet sesems to be a good starting point but it doesnt seem to be as accurate as it could be.

My question is what is the general concensus on min maxing stats? What numbers should a farm BT/MH moonkin look for? I see a lot of 1392 spell damage raid buffed means to stack haste instead, but should i also try and push more crit? I usually rely on non tier slots for crit, and my rings and weapon give me most of my haste. Should i try and push for 30% base crit in moonkin instead of so much haste? and has anyone tried no haste just damage and crit? The reason i ask is there are several fights that are pretty much stand and shoot fights in which me and our best warlock are neck and neck about 2k. He has little to no haste only crit and spell damage(some ridiculous number like 1600 shadow buffed) and all he does is spam SBolt which i know is what he should be doin for his build. So again just wanting to pick people brain a bit more on the subject. Thanks for the feedback

Few clarification points.
1) As I understand the math, people here are telling you to stack haste when the difference btwn your haste and buffed spell damage is 1392.
2) your cast time can't be 2.5 with just ~200 spell haste. You need 314 spell haste to get a 2.5s starfire. So either you are estimating the average cast time with the up time of your NG or you are over estimating and your real cast time with 200 haste is ~2.67s.

To answer one of your questions, "has anyone tried no haste just damage and crit?", the answer is yes. Of course they have. Gemmed haste wasn't introduced until 2.4. Prior to that, top boomkins like Vandiego had nothing but +dmg and crit to work with. Afaik they were not doing 2k dps without the newly introduced haste. Shadow Destro locks benefit from each other in raids. So the more shadow destro locks in your raid there are, the more their dps goes up. They don't have to have haste to put up such numbers.

If you are in 4/8 T6, then you should be close to 30% starfire crit already. Meaning that if you gem for more crit, you will be pushing above that. Gemmed crit will always be sub-par to straight damage or haste gems.