Ok, so today we did Hyjal and i went Moonkin (Offspec) and tried to see what i could do for dps.

Wow Web Stats

Currenly im running a 46/0/15 build. I didnt pick up the Treants because from my PoV they always just get 1 shot and are a waste of mana/gcd. Any input on this?

(Unbuffed) I have 4pc T6, with 1216 spl dmg, 154 hit, 20.53%crit, and 73 haste which = 4%.

For my rotation i was doing Imp FF, MF, IS, SFx4, then would just go to a MF, IS, SFx4 until FF would run out.

My avg DPS seemed a little low to me (considering gear), i was only doing an average of 1100. Should there be some kind of a different rotation to be using, or should i regem, ect. I want to try and be around 1300-1400 dps unbuffed.

I dont do any idol swaping or any of that, im just using [Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess]

As for trinket wise i swap around my ashtounge exalted trinket with quags eye, and for my 2nd slot i use the Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone


Any input would be appriciated.

Now for a question of my own.

I feel like I am under performing in my raids. Dps meters like recount and WWS have my average dps as 1150-1550 in Bt/hyjal/sunwell. But my spreadsheet says I should be pushing 1850+ with the buffs i get in my raids and estimating my trees do 10k damage each time they are up.

So, here is the typical raid setup for me. 284ms ping. Quartz cast bar. 4/8 T6. Spriest. Resto Shaman. DC:Crusade and ISC trinkets. Band of the Eternal Sage. Drums of Battle x2 in group. Typical cast rotation is MFx1, SFx6 and trees when up.

1518.4 buffed spell dmg
32.50% buffed starfire crit
hit capped
229 spell haste

Buffed spell damage - spell haste = 1289.4

The spreadsheet says that stacking haste will increase my dps more than pure spell damage gems so I do that. This obviously goes against the 1392 rule. But if the sheet is wrong, then is the stacked haste dropping my dps by 300 or is something else? Or a combination?

I am really good with hitting my rotation and try to use quartz to time my casts.

Suggestions to reach my max potential would be helpful.

Click my name to go to my armory.

There is an error in the haste calcs that was pointed out earlier in the thread... I've corrected it locally & hope to upload a fix with that & adding the S4 gear, but I need to find my disc with MS Office & get that installed before I can make the changes to the .xls in a manner I'm comfortable uploading. (I trust OO.o to read MS-generated files, but not vice versa, and I'd prefer not to introduce too many compatibility problems.)

I'll look into that.

Hey, I'm a moonkin raiding BT/MH and I feel as if I'm not doing as well as I should be dps wise and i'm not sure how to improve it. My stats are:

1252 Arcane damage (unbuffed), 1412 buffed
144 hit (normally have a draeni priest in group for +1% hit)
17.51% crit (non moonkin)
117 haste
Rotation=MF, SFx5 (2t6)

Are there any stats inparticular, I should be concentrating on in order to prove to my guild I can do good dps. my dps value's are random, I reached 1450 on Rage yesterday, yet only 1200 on Nan'jentus.

Also, with the 1392 rule, should I reach 1509 spell damage buffed, before I stack more haste?

I've seen that 1392 number thrown out a lot in this thread and was having a lot of trouble figuring out exactly what people were refering too. At first I though it was the damage cap at which point you stack haste, ty for the small clarification on that. I also wasnt sure about the crit number to shoot for, my starfire crits about 30% of the time in raids. I wasnt sure if I should try and shoot for a 35-40% as long as i didnt sac the spell damage / haste numbers significantly.

as far as the 2.5 starfire cast time I used ~ a lot to represent a rough estimate. I have several pieces of gear I switch in and out depending on my group set up, what fight I am facing, and to test some numbers. With my max haste (273 I think it is) I can get to 2.55 I usually sit around 2.67. Which makes me a very happy camper to get blodd lusted and cast 2.1 / 1.7 starfires LAWLBOOM. anyway I am a leather worker and pop haste drums, i keep the spell damage drums on me as well to pop during bloodlust.

which brings me to another theory question, We just downed kalecgos this week (server first woot) and said hello to Brutallis. We had several classes go Leatherworking as per strategy suggestion and simple numbers on how much more damage it would bring raid-wide. Then some of these people heard rumors that in WOTLK they will nerf the drums (something about you cant string the drum buffs, you get a debuff that will not allow you to get a drum buff for 2 minutes) causing some of the new made drummer go back to other professions. GG that hurt my dps I've seen my numbers go from 2k+ dps with three drummers down to 17-1800 with one drummer. If our DPS is solid I imagine the drummers are probably not necessary but I wantd to know the consensus? I've been considering dropping leatherworking to enchant (for my endgame rings) or JCrafting for the BOP neck from SWP. anyway thank again for all the feedback.

Since the public sheet is inaccurate and you have a personal working copy, could you give me a short analysis of how badly I am gimping my dps by gemming for straight haste gems with the stats I posted?
I am wanting to know if I should waste the badges on getting 5 or more new gems.

Thanks for the help Ef.

The 1392 is for pure SF spam, which is the best "rotation" if you start gaining SWP gear. For other rotations that include instants the value is higher rather than lower. There is also a value where crit becomes better than spelldmg in a 1:1.2 gem friendly conversion, but its just not reachable with current gear. There is also a value for hit vs spelldmg which was mentioned in some post on this thread. It was somewhere 700ish meaning before that 1 spelldmg is better than 1 hit.

It all got to do with different conversion rates and item budgets. Also spelldmg is an absolute increase in damage while the other stats increase by percentage of your current damage.

Using IFF in your rotation favours haste very slightly by the way. Very slightly means the assumed 2% personal dps loss you have by using it, gets reduced to a 1.4% dps loss with ~800 haste due to the gcd reduction.

As for drums, appeal to the dpsers in your guild to be reasonable. WOTLK even brings a new profession plus will probably throw all current profession gains out the window to be revamped for a new system, the same way it changed for BC. It is also still way off and if you just reached brut, you will probably still have wipe raids for months.
A 5% dps increase that costs ~3k gold (materials to skill it up, materials for drums and materials to get your old profession back before wotlk) and lasts for a full instance is not unreasonable. Takes 2 weeks of doing dailies and if they would just get the buff by doing those, noone would skip it i bet.
SWP is full of dps races, they don't stop after brut.
The info however is true and noone but full hunter or melee groups are complaining about that change as the "need" to be a Leatherworker for classes that can't use any of the crafted armor or even the leg enchants, instead only level it for one specific extra consumable seems like a poor mechanic.

Hello there balance friends. Here comes yet another person asking questions =p.

First off, I have no real access to T5 content at the moment .My guild is in SWP content at the moment and I am only in the guild socially. There are very few other raiding guilds on my server horde-side, and of those that are in T5 content I do not believe their raid schedule is compatible with the time I have available. This relegates me to badge gear for now.

So, I'm planning my next badge upgrade, and the slot that could use it most is my chest. I was playing around with the spreadsheet and had some interesting results comparing the [Tormented Demonsoul Robes], the [Blessed Elunite Coverings], and the [Embrace of Starlight].

It appears that tormented demonsoul loses to both of the leather pieces in pretty much all situations, but that getting my own innervate gives me about a 10 dps advantage with the embrace of starlight (assuming getting gem bonuses with blue quality gems).

I have heard it said that the Embrace is really a sidegrade compared to the Blessed Elunite, and was wondering if 10 dps is low enough to be considered a sidegrade, or if we just consider that 10 to be an unreliable approximation due to the fact that it comes from regen and would thus vary with fight length and other factors like that.

Saving 25 badges would not bother me at all if this is the case .

sent you a pm how i did it in my local copy, as the lootrank links have quite a few flags in it, but you only need a few stats for boomkin.
pm also includes a partial link with everything that is static for every moonkin, 0 for agi/str/..., every checkbox selected etc.
hope this saves you some time with how to build a functional link to lootrank. would appreciate it in upcoming versions of the sheet

Well, the correction that is needed & the cells where that correction needs to be posted are in the thread... somewhere. And there's an existing tool for haste analysis, as well as static equations with clear breakpoints. Finally, the discrepancy in the posted spreadsheet isn't too bad, and only approaches misinformation with larger amounts of haste, making it even less of an issue with reasonably obtainable haste values.

I do apologize the public spreadhsheet has an error.

As I am still unable to locate my copy of Windows Office, I'm hoping maybe there is someone with both OO.o and a relatively recent copy of MS Office who might be willing to convert this local .ods to an .xls? If you meet this description, PM me and I'll upload the .ods & send you a link. You can then upload or e-mail me the .xls & I'll post it on Filefront. Hopefully this will be a one-time occurrence, as I know I do have that disc.... somewhere.

Errr... actually, I'll just try and upload what OO.o outputs when I tell it to convert to .xls. If folks are getting errors, we'll have to go from there.

Ok so i am trying to improve my dps and would like some help. Currently my dps runs around 700 in a raid fully buffed. But the spread sheet says that i should be doing 1136 dps so i am curious as to what i am doing wrong. I will admit i am lazy (my main is a hunter :P) I use a macro for all my cast sequences. Is that a wrong thing to do? am i gimping my dps by doing that?

Before Moonfury, crit, and CoS, unseen moon will typically help three SF's (1% haste with a NG, or 6% haste with no NG) when it procs, giving 1.2*3*140*50% = 252 damage to a rotation. Any lag/movement at all, and it only helps 2*SF, or just 168 damage to the rotation.

Again before Moonfury, crit and CoS, Moongoddess adds 55 per SF. So SF*5 (sure thing with t6, unless you have lag/movement issues) is always better than Unseen Moon. If you don't have t6 and also have no haste, SF*4 would favor Moongoddess, since you'd need two NG's to complete 3 SF's during the Unseen proc.

For MF IS SF*4, Unseen and Moongoddess are almost exactly the same, but slightly favors Moongoddess. Same is true if you use Wrath instead of IS.

Raven adds about 80 to 150 to an SF*5 rotation (depending on your gear level). That is after crit, but before moonfury and CoS. Since the after-crit number for Moongoddess on an SF*5 rotation is close to 320, you can see where Raven is a raid-boost when it affects 3 or more casters who are "like you." At lower gear levels you'd probably want 4 or more.

Summary for MF+SF* rotations:

Raven with four crit-happy casters in your party (counting yourself) and within 30 yards (3 at high gear levels).
Unseen Moon if you can complete SF*3 before the bonus expires, but you use no more than SF*4 in your rotation.
Moongoddess otherwise.

For MF+Wr trash, Unseen Moon.

Avenger for arcane-immune (or other situations were you use Wrath but not MF/SF).

Seems to work fine for me using Excel 2007. Thanks for the update!

Thanks, this is good info. How do moonfury, and CoS affect these? I'd expect all the idols would be affected equally so your numbers should hold up no matter your talents and CoS status. Am I wrong?

Crit level would matter a bit as the discussion earlier in this thread about +dam vs +haste vs crit shows, but I don't expect enough variation to sway idol selection one way or the other.

Moonfury and CoS are just flat multipliers after the other damage is calculated, so they affect all SF/MF idols the same.

The Unseen Moon idol adds 140 +spell, but only procs 50% of the time and only lasts 10s. Since it is +spell, it gets the WoC boost (20% for SF). 140*50%*1.2 = 84 damage. I thought that Moongoddess was a flat 55 damage. However the Moongoddess description says "by up to", which usually means that the spell coefficient comes into play. 55*1.2 = 66.

If that is correct, MF SF*4 would prefer moongoddess, even if three of the SF could get the Unseen bonus:

Unseen Moon 84*3 = 252
Moongoddess 66*4 = 264

I thought that Rawr and Efejel's spreadsheet both treated Moongoddess as something that ignored WoC. However, I may be misremembering.

You (and other casters in your group) having a high crit level slightly lowers the relative value of the Raven idol (at 0% crit, 1% crit is a 1% dps boost. at 99% crit, 1% crit is a 0.5% dps boost).

Crit and haste affect both the number of SF in your rotation, and the number of SF that would get the Unseen bonus. It still looks to me as if Moongoddess will win if you get more than 3 SF into your rotation (which should usually be the case).

Using my dps simulator (DrBoom) I haven't seen any cases where Unseen Moon beats Moongoddess on average.

Oh, I didn't realize the cooldown was removed. I'll fix that for 1.0c and doublecheck that both are getting the WoC multiplier. They should be in 1.0b, but I can look at the code again.

Hi. I'm a long-time troller, new-time poster here for some DPS input.

Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

I have access to BT/MH gear. I currently have 4/5 Tier 5 and 2/8 Tier 6. So far I have only been able to push 1,100 DPS (even on most tank'n'spank encounters). My question is, would it be more ideal to use 4/5 Tier 5 (+10% SF damage w/ MF up) w/ Moongodess or 2 pieces of Tier 5 and Tier 6 with some other rotation/idol.

Side note: I am considering dropping 375 LW (Drums) for 375 Alchemy (Sorcerer's Alch. Stone). Which offers the most DPS?

Any advice/constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.

-Euqremba

4T5 is better than anything pre-4T6. In fact, if you're limiting yourself to leather, 4T5+4T6 competes for best-in-slot. So yes, keep your 4T5 on, especially since you're not in Sunwell yet.

As to Drums/Stone, Drums affect 5 people, Stone affects 1. Your call.

I have wondered some about the numbers for spamming starfire compared to spamming wrath. I looked up on the dps calc tab and noticed that for me starfire was set to average casttime of 2.9 sec and wrath to 1.594. How come wrath average a higher than 1.5 casttime? Do it account for some kind of lag or where is that coming from?

On Efejel's spreadsheet (I'm looking at version 0.80b) on the "Character Sheet & Buffs" tab, there is a "Miscellaneous Factors" box that includes an "Estimated Latency" entry. I don't know if thats what you are seeing, but it seems likely.

There appears to be a slight bug in the buffed mana regen calculation - when the formula subtracts out the stat-based mana regen to get the gear regen, it uses the pre-2.4 formula, but all the other calculations are done with the 2.4 formula. The following formula works correctly for me:

Also, I am seeing 18 points of stats from Improved MotW instead of the spreadsheet's 19, which is consistent with Blizz' rounding down.. I'm guessing Mark should give 14/14/15/16/17/18 stat points.

Thanks for the spreadsheet! I'm definitely hooked