Neshalin

There is a work around until Idol of the Raven Goddess is added. You can select 'None' as idol and simply add the 9 spell crit rating on the gear selection page.

 

Efejel

That's a good solution! Especially since updating this is falling ever lower on my life-priorities list. :-/

As far as estimating the DPS that 9 crit rating will have for everyone else in the party... not currently do-able in this sheet. The existing spreadsheets for Moonkin, Elem Shaman, SPriest, Warlocks, and Mages are each amazing & powerful tools, but the also take such unique approaches to calculating DPS that it becomes nearly impossible to integrate them for calculations such as that.

 

Benita

Well you can estimate it. Something in between 20-35 crit rating on your sheet in terms of raid dps if you were doing comparable dmg to those in your group would be my guess.
It really depends on the amount of affl/destr warlocks, spriests, resto/elem shaman, mages in your group.

In the end the starfire idol is providing more or at least the same raid dps as the Idol of the Raven Goddess, without a headache of estimating the dps it does in your specific groupsetup. A slight threat switch from you to the other casters could be another use for it, but its effect is hardly noticable.

 

Efejel

0.70e<--clicky

Added Season 2 Arena/PvP gear
Added various other missing gear (not necessarily complete, let me know what I missed)
-Naturewarden's, Elunite, Belt of the Crescent Moon
Fixed slight error in calculating crit rate on Moonfire (was reading from cell with Wrath/Sf rate!)
Added support for Idol of the Raven Goddess (Raven)
Added support for Relentless Earthstorm Diamond
Added support for Tier 5 4-pc. bonus
Added 80 nat/arc flask
Added some missing epic gems (+4 mp5, +10 spi)

NOTE ON NAMING CONVENTION: Gear updates & minor fixes will be noted by letter increments (0.70b, 0.70c, etc.) and only mechanics changes will merit new version numbers. New filefront links will be listed only for new version numbers, "letter" updates will be posted to the same link. Use the "Read Me" page to verify your version number against the first post.

 

Neshalin

Your new sheet gives me a good 200 dps increase with same gear and buffs. Playing with the numbers a little, it seems mana is ignored. Dps output is always the same, whether the fight lasts 1 minute, 10 minutes or an hour.

 

Efejel

D'oh! OK, I'll check that out. :-/

Haha... I see what it is. It's the fancy formatting on time till OOM. Will be fixed in ~45 sec.

EDIT: And, fixed!

 

Neshalin

Almost forgot to say, great spreadsheet Efejel. I find it very useful to plan my gear upgrades in a world of angry mages (raid leader literally said "MINE" when I mentioned Al'ar's Mindstorm Wristbands as a possible upgrade). It looks very tidy and it's easy to enter missing gear myself.

That said, a few more things could make it even better

- The new flask seems way off. It's only 10 more spell damage compared to Flask of Supreme Power, yet supposedly improves my dps by 17. Compare with the first 70 spell damage only giving 36 more dps. If I enter the 10 spell damage manually on the gear select page it gives a more realistic increase of 5.
- On the Weapon Swaps page, if the "high int weapon" has less intellect than the primary weapon, it gives a #NUM! error on additional mana, JoW restore and all calculated dps fields. I know, silly me for not updating the high int weapon when I upgrade my primary weapon or offhand.
- Trial-Fire Trousers, not Tribal.
- Please consider adding Anetheron's Noose, Chronicle of Dark Secrets and Cuffs of Devastation.

 

Benita

The new flask is called "Flask of Blinding Light".

Some errors:
I selected the Thunderheart Headguard, then the Swift Starfire Diamond as metagem. It shows "Err: 502" in the whole row for that and even with selecting a different headpiece without a metagem it wont go away. Im using Staroffice, did you write it in Excel? Might just be my program fucking up. 0.69 worked fine tho.

One more minor thing, Glyph-Lined Sash and 2 orange gems still keep the socket bonus inactive on the sheet.

And im unable to select a cloak enchant, but i guess that doesnt matter anyway or does the sheet account for spell penetration on nature spells?

2+4 T6 set boni are not in the list on the last page.

Keep up the good work!

 

Efejel

Thanks, will see how many of these I can fix today.

 

Efejel

First of all, let me say: I'm really glad people are finding this helpful & take the time to say so. At this point, I only spend any time at all on this because of you folks. Now, on to the other comments.

There was a slight error here, don't know if it was causing what you're seeing though. The error I found has, of course, been corrected. Let me know if it resolves this issue.
Fixed (hopefully, lemme know), corrected, addedx3.

Danke.

Yes, I'm developing in Excel. Can you screenshot your gear select page with the error, assuming it's still present in 0.70c? This was probably related to my failure to assign gem colors to the few gems I added, which has been fixed!

Socket bonus activity (on/off) calculation is compounded when allowing order independent gem selection. (Read: It's hard, I'm lazy. Anyone willing to fix it--decipher the logic in column O on the gear select page, and figure out what the correct logic is--will get mad props on the read me page. Until then, just toss it in the misc. gear selection, or add a custom "Glyph-Lined (SBonus incl.)" item.)

AFAIK, no bosses with partial, non-level-based, nature/arcane resist have been encountered in BC? I'm currently doing NO calculations for: spell haste, spell penetration, threat. Therefore, there are currently no cloak enchants implemented.

4 pc. T6 added. 2 pc. probably not worth the hassle--if there are any 2+ T6 Moonkin out there who are using Moonfire as part of their boss rotation, please post here to prove me wrong.

 

Benita

I think bosses have a base amount of resist dont they? It gets removed by the curses usually so thats why noone bothers, but since theres no curse for nature dmg (a shame really), penetration could be useful. But i wouldnt bet on me being right on this point.

Spell haste would be interesting. I got 2 BT rings now (Ring of Ancient Knowledge) and my Starfire is down to 2.91 making it somewhat noticeable already.

I got 3/5 T6 and im using Moonfires mostly in multiple mob situations to get the natures grace to proc. I was kinda hoping for info from the spreadsheet if it can compare on a normal tanknspank boss rotation

About the error, its easy to reproduce as i noticed. I just select the Robes of Rhonin and it creates an error on the metagem row and then the totals row. It goes away if you select another chestitem, i just assumed it was linked to the headitem/metagem and thats all i changed then. Im using OpenOffice Calc 2.0.3.

 

• frmorrison

I looked at your spreadsheet, you are missing 2/5 Tier 6 (adds 3 seconds to Moonfire's DoT).

As to spell cycles, is there a way to change them?
IS, MF, SF, Wx3 would be nice to see.


Also, where is the Force of Nature dps? Anything would be nice to see, even a gray box to show it is coming.

Half of Hydross is nature immune, so spell pen will not help there, no other bosses mess with Nature/Arcane spells.


On the PTR I have 3/6 Tier 6 and use Moonfire , but I might not know what I am doing.

 

Efejel

Just occurred to me it's going to have to be a MFx8, ISx10, SFx31 to properly & evenly account for the 3 addt'l secs on Moonfire duration. At which point the "give or take lag, crits, and cast interruption" makes things MUCH more vague.

And, in case I do decide to implement spell haste: if you are hasted to 2.91 sec SF & proc NG, do you get a 2.41 sec SF, or a (2.91/3)*2.5 = 2.425 sec SF?

Ah, turns out the Robes are the culprit. Need to have "0 0 0" put in for the sockets on the "Chests" sheet.

 

Caliane

I could have sworn it was haste effect then .5s taken off that. but I might be tired and remembering it wrong..


2p t6. Honestly, at that point, I would drop IS likely and just do mf/sfx5.
The extra tick wont really increase dps. Though you could say the longer duration increases damage per global cooldown.
But it will increase moonfires efficiency a good amount.

4pc t6, ill be pushing 40% crit on starfire raid buffed and 45% on moonfire. Should be getting 2-3 nat grace procs per rotation.

Insect swarm will be a dps hole at that point. It doesnt scale as well as starfire, or moonfire after CoS. I am not positive, but I do not think the 2% IS miss actaully stacks with standard warrior defence/parry/dodge, miss cap.



(The real issue is 4pc t5 being way way too strong, and its much stronger then any amount of t6 up until 4pc t6. And even after, very possibly STILL better.)


Seems to be something wrong with velvent boots of the gaurdian, btw. Gives me a n/a for char stats when I try entering them.

 

Efejel

You'll like the new version. Added a section for custom cast cycles.

Only 1% more crit on MF than SF after you have 4pc T6.

I just was seeing the DPS loss of IS & was a bit surprised. I know, maybe Blizzard will see that we have one less thing to add to raids & add a 21-25 pt. talent to double IS's damage & triple it's avoidance value to tanks--of course, they'll put the talent in Resto!

Yeah, forgot to add them on Boot Sockets sheet. Caught that before you pointed it out, though!

 

Caliane

See tired.
Yeah, im at 29.8% starfire now. Additional t6 gear, and nonset gear will give a good 34-35% crit before the t6 4pc.

Thats the brillance of hte t5 bonus. It adds to IS's usefullness in our spell rotation.
problem is, its not a perminant solution, and the t5 bonus is way overpowered.

The smart solution is of course, a 10% nature damage "curse of nature", likely improved FF.... But tahts been suggested a million times and never done.

 

Efejel

This hardly seems worth doing. I may add a "Force of Nature: Yes/No" that will count them as say... 2000 dmg every 3 min? 3000 dmg? If anyone has solid numbers on expected/avg/max damage contributions from Treants, let me know.

If I do do this, (heh, I said doodoo) I'll probably also finally calculate the cast time vs. DPS penalty for FoN AND B-Rez.

 

Neshalin

Thanks for the update, Efejel. The flask seems fine now.

I've tried Force of Nature a while ago, but found it too situational. The treants can do 8k - 9k damage per cast if allowed to live the full 30 seconds. It's excellent damage in heroic instances! In raids there are so many things that can kill them, it's hard to time well. Also I've found the treants to be a bit shy when it comes to start attacking the next mob if it was crowd controlled. You literally have to walk them to the enemy sometimes, which is bad for personal dps.

I miss my treants though May consider switching a point from Subtlety. If I do, I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

Benita

Theres no avoidance cap in the game. There is some -boss dmg cap you can do with debuffs or smth, didnt really keep that much track of it, but there are some threads somewhere on these boards about that topic. I doubt anyone tested if IS counts for one or the other, which would make it slightly useful/not useful at all.

I use IS mostly in fights where there is heavy tank dmg. Otherwise i have to agree that t6 just shifts the cycle to MF/xSF depending on NG procs.

I found treants in heroics to be awesome for "offtanking" some add, meaning they die in 3 hits but they still delay the add going for the healer right away. In raids their dmg is close to nothing, just still better than putting them into Brambles or Control of Nature.
Overall i have to jump on the bandwagon that the whole talent tree can use a serious upgrade, but with BT/hyjal gear i actually am able to compete with other casters. Ill link some WWS soon.

Played around with the new sheets custom cycle btw, i get the highest values for a 1 MF/1 SF cycle. Around 130 dps above anything else in my gear. I guess thats the most abusive NG proc cycle? MF then SF till it stops to crit, then MF again. Mana consumption is extreme tho ofc

 

• frmorrison

The 2% for the target to miss from IS stacks with the Hunter sting and normal tank avoidance, I don't recall any cap on avoidance.

For modeling treant dps, I would ballpark it at 3,000 damage every 3 minutes with a 1.5 second cast time.

NG is a flat 0.5 second off, so 2.41.

 

◊ Lorewanderer

Adding another voice to the thanks for the spreadsheet.

The actual content of the post though:
It looks like as of .70d the mp5 approximation from the Insightful Earthstorm meta isn't being added anywhere.

Also, a simple feature request, if you don't mind: Somewhere on the various sheets (Gear Select and Talents both, ideally) have a the max of the "average DPS" column show up somewhere to make gear/spec comparisons not involve quite so many swaps between sheets.

To Benita: I'm not sure, but I think the spreadsheet is assuming you'll let moonfire go its entire duration, so you'd probably lose whatever edge over a non-moonspam cycle from the loss of DoT damage.

 

Caliane

Ive gotten lasy with wws. So I cant link a report for treant damage atm.

But, 11% per tree from +damage, on top of base damage, which was like 170/hit.
16% miss rate per tree.
Does not seem to scale with spell crit.


Assuming they survive, my treants do an average 6-7k each cast, with me having 99% hit with spells, 20% all spell crit, without moonkin, and 1179 damage unbuffed, 1291 normal raid buffs. (no oil)
My hit rate doesnt seem to effect them. Nor spell crit. I tested in beta, and I dont think temporay spell buffs, i.e. trinkets, effect the damage.

 

• frmorrison

Treants, the Shadowfiend and Warlock melee pets get similar benefits.

A lock pet gets 57% of +damage as AP, so since there are three trees around 19% should be added to each, totaling 57%. Temp +damage from clickable trinkets will add more AP as well. I will try to check this later to make sure, the devs could have customized each classes's pet.

Normal pet miss rate on 70s is 11%, so 15.6% on bosses should be the normalized number (I lost my WWS when I was Demonology, since the free uploads only last so long).

Stamina added is 30% of master's stamina.


Spell hit, crit, haste and attack power buffs on the master will give zero benefit to pets.

Sunder armor and improved faerie fire will help them though.

 

Efejel

^Correct! I may try & outsmart this before I push the next revision. (More IF logic....... yay.)

 

dogdmw

Velvet boots of the guardian seem to cause the whole spreadsheet to blow up.