Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 8

Kellarus · 06/28/07, 10:09 PM

I have a question spurred by installing recount and playing with it - previously I've found this spreadsheet spot on accurate, but lately with some gear upgrades, use of castsequence macros and many Dr. Boom tests it seems to be underestimating my actual damage by about 10%. It's harder to test more accurately in raid conditions, but I'll see If I can dig up some hard numbers.

The spreadsheet with my gear and self buffs shows approximatly 900 dps for a IS SFx4 rotation (doing 3 min tests so mana is a not a issue), however my real world dps as reported by swstats/recount/dmg meters is averaging just under 1k. Is this because of latency (im usually at <100 ms), Dr. Boom being lvl 68 as oppossed to 70 (the lowest on the sheet), or is it because of inadequite modeling of mystical skyfire diamond/shiffars/clicky trinkets (icon of the silver crescent)? Is there some factor I'm completely missing or have I just had really good luck in the 10 or so trials I've run in the last few days.

This has been a pleasant surprise.

Efejel · 06/29/07, 1:53 AM

Shiffars & click-trinkets (Icon, etc.) are NOT modeled in any way by the formulas--only their static benefits are accounted for. I'd be a bit surprised if they're adding 90-ish DPS, but I suppose not blown away.

If you're willing to do another trial with non-active trinkets (or with trinkets you don't activate, which I suppose isn't an option for Shiffar's) you might see if the numbers are more accurate there.

EDIT: PS, if anyone can test & confirm 209% crit damage from Relentless Earthstorm Diamond for us that would be sweet. I'd like to incorporate it into v0.70, but would love to see some cross-confirmation of the numbers before I do so.

Kellarus · 06/29/07, 4:28 AM

re ran the test with diff trinkets, lower latency on the spreadsheet, and never touching the clicky- went down to only 10 dps higher than the sheet on average, so I'll call that within the margin of error.

I'm a jewelcrafter, so I'll make a relentless meta in the next few days and run some tests.

Perinium · 06/29/07, 10:09 AM

like i said... i have been working on a resto piece for this.

do you have some time to go over the P column on the "gear select" page? I get the gist of what it is trying to do, but when adding some resto items of my own i am having some issues that I am pretty sure are based around this calculation.

Perinium · 06/29/07, 10:56 AM

Actually...

I have been really busy lately, and i noticed you came out with a newer version. I am going to be checking it out as well.

relientKitten · 06/29/07, 5:52 PM

Wow, I never knew about Improved Divine Spirit. This is what happens when you let your priest rot at level 24 for almost two years.

That would certainly increase the value of Spirit. I'd say to a ~.1 ratio without actually crunching the numbers (at work at the moment and all of my post-it notes are at home).

I've read that Moonfury only applies to the base damage of Moonfire, Wrath, and Starfire. Is this verified? I need to go cuddle with Dr. Boom for a while longer I suppose. If that is the case, and modeling it, investing each point into Moonfury only increases DPS by about 1.6. I'd rather put those points somewhere else.

And regarding your DPS and Dr. Boom, Kellarus, the level difference may provide some DPS difference. I haven't seen anything conclusive stating that there is or is not a less than 4% miss chance on mobs lower than your level. If so, and you don't have any +hit gear vs. the level 70 target, I would say that there is a possibility.

Also you could be getting some lucky crits. The DPS from the spreadsheet is an average over time of sorts, so the longer you fire at Dr. Boom, the more possible that you may see your DPS approach the target from the spreadsheet.

I know that I have actually experienced my DPS as being lower during fights compared to the spreadsheet, but I also have more latency to deal with and a fear of aggro theft.

Efejel · 06/29/07, 6:08 PM

Originally Posted by relientKitten

I've read that Moonfury only applies to the base damage of Moonfire, Wrath, and Starfire. Is this verified? I need to go cuddle with Dr. Boom for a while longer I suppose. If that is the case, and modeling it, investing each point into Moonfury only increases DPS by about 1.6. I'd rather put those points somewhere else.

Changed in 2.0. Rest assured your points in Moonfury are some of the best-spent ones in the tree (for PvE & scalability).

Kellarus · 06/29/07, 7:28 PM

Originally Posted by relientKitten

And regarding your DPS and Dr. Boom, Kellarus, the level difference may provide some DPS difference. I haven't seen anything conclusive stating that there is or is not a less than 4% miss chance on mobs lower than your level. If so, and you don't have any +hit gear vs. the level 70 target, I would say that there is a possibility.

Also you could be getting some lucky crits. The DPS from the spreadsheet is an average over time of sorts, so the longer you fire at Dr. Boom, the more possible that you may see your DPS approach the target from the spreadsheet.

I know that I have actually experienced my DPS as being lower during fights compared to the spreadsheet, but I also have more latency to deal with and a fear of aggro theft.

I think I figured out what it was. Like you I've seen actual dps lower on bosses than the sheet (to be expected with silences/dodging arcane orbs/shatters etc). That's why I was surprised the other day when I spent a few hours on DR. Boom testing recount. Part of it was me having a brain fart and thinking the sheet included clickies and procs as an average value. However that was only responsible for about 30ish dps

Latency is a much bigger factor than I thought it would be. I've gotten really spoiled lately with 50 ms ping almost always- the whole reason I noticed the disparity was that I was attempting to achieve theory crafting "lab conditions" on dr boom through quartz/stopcasting/castsequence macros. When I lowered the latency on the spreadsheet from .3 to .1 it made my average over 15 tests match up almost exactly.

Benita · 06/30/07, 6:51 AM

Could you add:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30914
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32352
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32351

to the spreadsheet pls? They are not that far away anymore for some and im guessing some would like to compare their "perfect equip" gear against other spellcasters.

relientKitten · 07/03/07, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by Efejel

Changed in 2.0. Rest assured your points in Moonfury are some of the best-spent ones in the tree (for PvE & scalability).

Are you certain of this? Modelling the effect of Moonfury over Wrath and Starfire, the numbers only match when Moonfury is applied only to the base damage rather than to the total damage after adding +spelldamage.

Kellarus · 07/03/07, 5:54 PM

Unless it was broken very recently (which I have no evidence of), moonfury has been applying to both the base damage and the spell damage since 2.0. What number are you using for the spell damage coefficients? For example the 132% starfire damage coefficient already includes wrath of cenarius and moonfury, with moonfury added last - are you trying to add 10% on top of that?

For example using the average damage for starfire 8 and with 5/5 wrath of cenarius, and 1000 spell dmg and no idol.

pre 2.0 moonfury = (588ish * 1.1)+ (1.2 *1000)= 1846ish
2.0 moonfury =(588*1.1)+ (1.1(1.2*1000)= 1967ish

Kellarus · 07/03/07, 6:09 PM

Just ran some tests on Dr. Boom, I'm definitly getting numbers that are applying moonfury to spell damage, scared me for a second

Traek · 07/04/07, 2:12 PM

With information from the spreadsheet, is it more effective to use wrath over starfire? When would it be more effective to put on my +arcane damage gear and use the IS/SFx3 rotation over a IS/MF/Wrath spam in my regular +damage gear is essentially what I'm asking. I've been having trouble getting any consistency with my damage with a wrath or starfire rotation. Could it be due to a lack of +hit?

Emily · 07/04/07, 2:16 PM

My understanding is that Wrath represents better dps. Use it if mana isn't an issue, or if you need to cram a lot of dps into a small window of time. Ditto Moonfire.

Insect Swarm + Starfire are much better dpm. Using these allows for a cycle that can be sustained for longer, resulting in higher average dps in situations where Wrath spam will run you oom. (ie, everything bar v quick trash packs).

Starfire also has the advantage over Wrath that Nature's Grace procs will actually speed up your casting cycle, while a NG proc on Wrath will push it below the GCD and leave you unable to cast til the GCD is up.

galzohar · 07/04/07, 2:54 PM

Starfire also has the advantage over Wrath that Nature's Grace procs will actually speed up your casting cycle, while a NG proc on Wrath will push it below the GCD and leave you unable to cast til the GCD is up.

That's not exactly the right way to look at it. When you calculated starfire's DPS, you should've already counted NG in. Saying its DPS is lower but gets increased by NG doesn't help much. Saying if its DPS is higher/lower AFTER NG is a lot more useful information ;p