Efejel

0.70d? Should be fixed.

 

dogdmw

Oh ya had 2 copies of it, nevermind .

 

Caliane

Yeah, 16% was the number Ive gotten as average from wws. 15.6 is likely the number underneath.

I tested out trinkets, and they do seem to work. I could have sworn they didnt.. So, poping trinkets before trees would be a good idea.
Perhaps it was flasks that I was mis-remembering?

I am still pretty sure the scaling value is 30-33% however.
Testing again.
level 5 defiance cutpurses.
101 damage with just lunar guidance
150-180 average damage.

lv5 defiace cutpurses.
1174 damage.
250-300 average damage

lv5 deficane cutpures
1327 damage. (trinket)
270-320 average.


155 damage trinket gave about 20 damage per hit. 13%

100-120 damage from the 1073 damage from gear. 11%


19% vs 11% would be pretty noticable. Im pretty certain it is not that high.

 

Efejel

It should be included in the "Misc Mana Restore" section.

That's a good idea! Done.

Didn't get around to fixing this. Maybe if/when I finish adding FoN support. (Which will be v0.71.)

v0.70e
The top DPS cycle is now listed on the Gear Select & Talent sheets, to make comparing much quicker.
Some reorganization & cosmetic changes.
Elixirs are not included in calculations if a flask is selected.
Placeholder added for Force of Nature damage estimates. Anyone who wants to implement it before me, feel free.

 

• frmorrison

Looking at your numbers, we are using different types of numbers. You are giving the average hit, I was referring to attack power (which makes things hit harder).


Converting your numbers to things more understandable:

Attempt one 82.5 dps

adding 1073 spell damage which should add 57% as AP getting 612 to each tree, which would be 44 dps
Attempt two 137.5 dps, which is 55 dps more. 72% of +damage as AP fits this.

adding 153 spell damage adding 88 AP to each tree, which would be 6.3 dps:
Attempt three 147.5 dps, which is 10 dps more, 91% of +damage as AP would fit this.

So need more samples, but this at least shows druid treants scale at least as good as Warlock pets.

 

Efejel

Ok, seems like I've cleared up the major bugs. Anyone who was waiting to download until I was done with this flurry of revisions should now feel free to do so. :-p

 

Luxsong

Thanks for an awesome tool Efejel!

Does anyone else use a macro to swap the Starfire and Wrath idols after cast start?

/cast Wrath
/equip [noequipped:Idol of the Avenger] Idol of the Avenger;

and

/cast Starfire
/equip [noequipped:Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess;

I only run into problems with these when I cancel casts or press the button twice, takes a little getting used to.

Any chance you could add this to the spreadsheet for sequences that include both?

 

Efejel

This is really pretty easy to do. I'll include it in 0.71, but if you'd like to see it on your current version, do the following:

First, add an option for "Both" to the Idols pull-down menu.
Start by unhiding the Pulldown sheet.


Insert a single cell somewhere between the first & the last existing pull-down options.


(Shift cells DOWN!)


Type in "Both" or whatever you want to call your option.


Now for the slightly trickier part: making sure the addt'l damage is calculated. We need to go to the "Damage Calcs" (clever name, I know) sheet for this.


This is one of the four cells we'll be changing.


Simply change "(Idol_Select="Starfire")" to "OR((Idol_Select="Starfire),(Idol_Select="Both"))"

Do the same thing in cell K4.



The changes for Wrath happen elsewhere. Since the tooltip/spell pane actually updates with the Wrath idol, I figure the addt'l Wrath damage in the spell pane columns.


And the change you make is fairly obvious. Make the same change in C5.





You may want to hide (Alt+O+H+H in Excel, Alt+O+S+H in OO.o scalc) those two sheets once you're done with the changes, so you don't accidentally muck them up later.

 

Caliane

I was trying to enter in my current gear via gear select.
And a few things I noticed.


Band of eternity stats are wrong. And there multiple versions of the ring like the violent signet. (though none are choices.)

Neltherions tear is not an option as well.
marshals silk bracers has 12 crit rating in the spreadsheet. its 11 in game.

And there should be a choice to enter -none- for each item, so entering in items manually via the "other" entry form can be done.



Additionally, is it easy to simple edit the stats on items oneself? I know very little about spreadsheets.



And, some more.

On the gear select page, Its showing the correct int, spirit, hit values.
Crit is shown as 17.88%, when I switch to the char sheet/buffs page. the unbuffed slot shows 18.29% crit.

my damage is showing as 1 higher on the spreadsheet, and mp/5 while casting is 1mp/5 lower on the spreadsheet. This could be a gear stat being incorrect as well, but havent found it yet.

 

Efejel

There's instructions on adding/changing items a few pages earlier in this thread. It's not particularly complex. I'll update these locally for future versions. Except for Nelth's tear. Pre-BC gear can suck it. The few Moonkin who actually have these items will have to continue to enter them manually because I'm spiteful.

Indeed. I'll get on that.

You probably have Idol set to "Raven", which doesn't update the gear select page. I'll make that change for 0.71 as well.

Most likely it's an in-game rounding error. The correct/exact formulas don't mimic the unpredictable results generated by Blizzard, so I've had to try and apply rounding and addition in manners that are correct as frequently as possible.

Remember that spell damage is determined by (dmg from gear + dmg from buffs + dmg from talents) and that (dmg from buffs = direct dmg + IF(impDS, (spirit * IF(BoK,1.1,1))*IF(impDS = 2/2,.1,.05))) and (dmg from talents = IF(BoK, ((int*1.1)/4),(int/4))). Thus the question becomes does (449 * 1.1) /4 + ((360 * 1.1) * .1) round to FLOOR(123.475) + FLOOR(39.6) or FLOOR(123.475 + 39.6)? What I found while testing was that the answer varied. *shrug*

 

Efejel

Wowhead is showing 12... can anyone confirm 11 in game? (Are you sure you're not looking at resilience?)
Marshal's Silk Cuffs - Items - World of Warcraft <--Alliance
General's Silk Cuffs - Items - World of Warcraft <--Horde

 

Caliane

Positive. Thats odd.
They are 11 resil and 11 spell crit in game.

 

Caliane

Well I was refering to unbuffed spell damage and mp/5. That would have been just purely from gear, int, and spirit.
Possiblity of rounding error is there still though.


And yeah, the raven idol was likely the cuase for the shift in crit. I shifted that later.



T5 4pc doesnt seem to work with the custom cycle. Understandable though.


If you could add, mf, sfx4 to the cycles, it is the highest dps cycle late game. Might help people see that though, as many newer players might not.

 

Efejel

*shrug* More Blizz weirdness/laziness.

I was playing around comparing set bonuses, and the prediction that 4/4 T5 > 4/4 T6... turns out it's right*, assuming you don't have the T6 chest. The T6 chest + 3 other T6 > T5.

Also, it looks like* the T6 SHOULDERS give the same DPS upgrade as the T6 gloves for us, so you might be in better shape trying to get those, assuming you don't need that extra socket to activate your meta gem.

*- 6 minute fight, fully buffed, highest DPS rotation, semi-mana limited, hit-capped (Totem of Wrath) with pretty much any combination of T5/6, Relentless Earthstorm Diamond meta

Right. Rounding from the talents alone still doesn't follow any reasonable rules.

If you don't want to edit your gear locally, just add a -1 crit custom item.

 

Caliane

Yeah, and heres a link back to the post for anyone else interested in adding/editing items.
http://elitistjerks.com/376790-post48.html


And, yes, I was reviewing t6 vs t5 today. t6 4pc with other bt/hyjal loot is in fact more dps then t5 with the mf,sfx4or5 rotation. chest, helm, shoulders, legs.

Given the nature of the 12 damage epic gems. Shoulders are the right choice still.
t6 gloves have 1 gem(vs nonset 2 such as souleaters still), helm has 1 gem/1meta(vs grand engineers 3), legs have 1(3 socket legs channeled elements)

Should really look into if, off set gear with more sockets is the highest dps option.

 

• frmorrison

To be fair, that is the way for Warlocks as well compared to the Tier sets (mostly due to number of sockets and the Warlock item budget being used on stamina, while nice isn't doing dps).

The only exception are the Tier 6 Gloves/Chest.

 

Benita

2.43 it said in the spellbook tooltip.

 

Efejel

So, in addition to causing you to OOM faster, spell haste reduces the value of NG... sweet!

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Caliane

Yeah, I was aware it was for locks and mages. For druids it may or may not be however.
As druids are heavily tied to mana, much cloth itemazation is better becuase leather is horrible, but not specifically designed right for druids either.
Almost asuredly is however. I doubt the 5% crit on starfire makes up for all those potential spinals.

They screwed up with sockets for sure. The gems skirt around dimishing returns on itemvalue. Allowing such things as 3 12damage spinals, which obliterates any stats that would be there if not in socket form.

Comparing cuffs of devestation to elunerite empowered bracers is a good example. Or blue seude boots to boots of the seacaller.

 

Caliane

A few things.

Whats easier for you efejel? Should I make a list of wowhead items that should be added.
Or should I enter them myself, then upload my .xls for you to just copy?
Theres quite a few bt/hyal items missing.


Secondly is another potential feature.
A spell average effects page.

List:
Starfire: unbuffed Buffed Buff/debuff
Crit %
Average hit
Average crit
Average damage
Average damage/mana.

Insect swarm: Unbuffed Buffed buff/debuff
Average damage
Average damage/mana

Wrath : Unbuffed Buffed Buff/debuff
Crit%
Average hit
Average crit
Average damage
Average damage/mana.

Unbuffed being unbuffed values
Buffed being buffed values but not misery/cos
Buff/debuff being full damage to debuffed target.

 

Efejel

I've been using Sapphiron's list on the WoW Forums, but I did a fairly quick run-through last time, rather than a complete comparison. At this point a list of Wowhead links might be a bit easier, as I've already started work on 0.71, and changed the item sheets there to include all the "---None---" options.

The damage calcs sheet does this for the full buffed/debuffed values, it probably wouldn't be too hard to figure the unbuffed & buffed values too... I don't really know what the motivation behind the feature would be, however.

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Namsar

Something very minor but... if you're going to update the items there is one I currently have that is wrong, the Silent Slippers of Meditation. The crit was removed from these boots in 2.1. And yet I still haven't been able to replace them!

Other than that the only thing I'd really die for is a way to compare items in slots, like say, set up all your current gear and then be able to list all wrist items, and how they would effect your final dps. As it stands you have to choose each one individually, put in the gems, write down the value... goto the next one etc. I was thinking about it, but it's a lot of work as I figure so it's more a "wow that would be so cool" rather than a "yeah np easy for .72!"

Thanks a lot for your Spreadsheet Efejel!

 

Benita

Raided BT yesterday as moonkin. Wow Web Stats
Healed on Gurtogg and the last part of council.
I dont go out of mana in a spriest/resto shaman group which we always have two off. Not only for me but mostly for our mages sake, some of them use arcane/frost speccs.
I got Dreamstate in my specc but zero points in Intensity.
It might be linked to the quality of our spriests, but in some encounters i didnt even have to pot at all. Im guessing its because their damage and therefor mana regen for the group is increasing while mine stays the same.

4 parts Tier 6 pushes the MF/xSF cycle over any wrath dps output from what i can tell. 13% of Malediction-CoS can hardly be made up for in raids.

I used IS only when i had to move anyway and moonfire was ticking already (supremus for example), wrath only on mother to get some nature prismatic shield up. Reliquary phase 2 even favours continuous Starfire spam without any kind of dot.
Keeping up perfect dps cycles looks very different in raids where you switch targets, combatres, emergency heal, have boss resistances etc. Going slightly offtopic here tho, sorry.

As for spellhaste, i mostly got it because the BT trashdrop rings were convenient to get at the time and i chose healing/tanking versions for the instance reputation/head turnin items.
My estimate is something like 0.6 crit rating equals 1 haste rating, correct me please if im totally off here.

 

Efejel

Thanks for the WWS Benita. I pulled out your treants for the Supremus kill (because it was the first segment...) and am seeing 18k dmg from 2 casts of FoN, correct? If so, that's pretty impressive. And would leap-frog you past the mage for number one in total damage!

Other FoN numbers:
11k / 1 cast - Shade of Akama
14k / 2 casts - Teron Gorefiend
7k / 1 cast - Essence of Anger
15k / 2 casts - Mother Shahraz
6k / 2 casts - Veras Darkshadow

Seems a bit more effective than Moonfire in terms of total damage for an instant cast, even in the worst case. Almost seems like they do more threatless damage than one point in Subtlety increase the threat cap by... if that makes any sense.

"Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do something." - Kurt Vonnegut

 

Caliane

I got my 4pc t5 last night.

I was pondering the dps rotations and came up with a interesting possibility.

The mf,sfx4 has a bit of an issue, as 12s moonfire, with 12s of starfire cast times(not including nat grace reductions).
the 1.5s global means moonfire runs out before that last starfire lands if you dont get 3 starfire crits. You can either overwrite/refresh moonfire early, or use a lowrank moonfire thats soul purpose is to give the t5 bonus.
Insect swarm rotations have the same problem.
MF/IS,sfx3 keeps the debuffs up constantly for starfire.

Another option is to roll MF and IS however.
mf, starfire, starfire, starfire, insectswarm, starfire, starfire, starfire, mf, starfire, starfire starfire, etc.
This would keep t5debuff up constantly, not cuase mf or is damage loss from refreshing early.

Ill be testing the mana burn, and dps on this rotation out.