Hey guys, so once we get 4pc t6, its just straight spam SF correct? Currently, the spreadsheet lists our highest dps cloak as the healer one off Illidan, is anyone actually using this? Also, does anyone know of any plans to update the spreadsheet to incorporate more of the Sunwell weapons/gear?

No, starfire spam is not optimal whatsoever if you're other gear doesn't support it. Please use the spreadsheet at least to see what that says is the best DPS rotation and go from there.

Also realize that certain trinkets can be situationally viable, such as timbals. On Kalecgos, where Im decursing, timbals is great as I always have my DoTs running while decursing. Ive been playing around with it a lot simply because Im NOT using my optimum casting rotation as Sunwell bosses hit fast and hard, so even tho IS is less dps, 2% less hit on a brutallus stomped tank can make a big difference. And honestly, moonkin utility is why they are brought to raid, as we simply cannot compete with fully geared destro locks, warglaive rogues, and good BM hunters (unless I get some great strings of crits)

Thanks for the updated spreadsheet Ef! Came in handy since I need to make some hard gear choices right now.

Just wanted to let you know Fused Netherdragon Band should be Fused Nethergon Band. Very minor I know, just wanted to let you know.

That's a goal? The goal for us is to maximize DPS with the gear we have (and provide raid utility, which may include iFF and IS), not to gear around a specific spell rotation. Starfire spam may be an easier rotation to maintain, but that doesn't mean that achieving a gearset for which it is the highest DPS is the epitome of Moonkin raiding.

Given the example from earlier in this thread, at 1500 spell damage you'd need (making some basic assumptions here) 460 Haste in order for dropping Moonfire from your rotation to be higher DPS than leaving it in. More spell damage may lower that point, but I'm nowhere near that point in my math study yet.

Speaking of, I've got most of the Hit equations done, then I'll work on crit. After that I think I'll have enough to publish the article without too much problem, so I'm probably gonna let that be the release for it. As a preview, though, I've found the following to be true:

The benefit of Hit relies heavily on your crit rate because of Nature's Grace. Given a crit rate of 25% for SF, which would be 16% character sheet, and Balance of Power, Hit becomes better than Spell Damage after 560, rather than the 606 I mentioned earlier. The more crit you have, the lower this number becomes. As for gemming, given Rare gems, the point at which 8 Spell Hit outweighs 9 Spell damage is 692 spell damage.

Ok I just wanted to throw this out there, it looks like to me the best trinket selection until Skull of Guldan is Qaug's eye and Hex Shrunken Head. Every time I replace Quage's Eye with ANYTHING my DPS lowers by about 20. Is this for real? What is a better option than Quage's Eye? I thought Darkmoon Card Crusade would be better (Blessing's Deck) but it comes out about 10 DPS lower than Quage's.

I'd be very interested to hear the rationale for this, since it doesn't seem intuitive to me. I would have thought that since "If you can't hit you can't crit" is known to be false, the values of crit and hit would be independent of each other.

While I don't have the complex equations that Adoriele does, I can at least explain the premise of this.


Every time your starfire/wrath/moonfire is a critical strike, you trigger nature's grace. As your crit rate goes up, the chance that any given spell will trigger nature's grace, also increases.

As your hit rate goes up, more of your spells will be hits. Each given spell that hits an enemy (leaving out insect swarm here since it cannot crit) has a chance to be a critical strike. Spells that do not hit a given enemy, have no chance of rolling on the critical strike table. So the addage "If you can't hit, you can't crit" is pretty damn true.

Furthermore, as your hit rate rises more of your casts will trigger nature's grace. A spell that misses, cannot trigger nature's grace. Because it cannot crit.


I don't see why you believe that it's false. Melee is on a different roll system than casters, so perhaps you're confusing the two systems?

I mean you can't say "I now have 4pT6, time to starfire spam" If it's not optimal for your gearset. Your weapon, rings, accessories, trinkets... Adoriele went into further detail about why 'starfire spam' isn't some optimal end goal if other rotations do more damage / utility.

Another interesting thing I just poked out of the math: Spell Haste is never, unless you are hit-capped, better than Hit. It's impossible for 1 point of Haste to be worth more than 1 point of Hit for DPS.

Obviously with hit rating costing only ~12.5 per 1% it'll be the most powerful stat, but only works until you're capped (and of course only on bosses, as on trash/adds the hit cap is 3-5% spell hit for level 70-72 mobs which is reachable without even trying). I would think this should've been common knoledge by now...