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05/16/08, 9:25 AM
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#1441
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Glass Joe
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Dps loss to the druid but an enormous raid wide benefit that all melee+ranged gain through that added hit aswell as tanks
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05/16/08, 9:39 AM
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#1442
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Happy October 19th!
Night Elf Druid
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by mefe4r
Dps loss to the druid but an enormous raid wide benefit that all melee+ranged gain through that added hit aswell as tanks
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Yes, we're all aware of that. Unfortunately, Raid DPS benefit is a bit difficult to model in a spreadsheet, so we leave iFF out, noting that, if you use it (and you should), you'll lose about 4% personal DPS from what the sheet says, but it won't actually change any of the recommendations.
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05/16/08, 10:39 AM
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#1443
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by mefe4r
Dps loss to the druid but an enormous raid wide benefit that all melee+ranged gain through that added hit aswell as tanks
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Yes, so just add it in to the rotation when it's about to fall off. Why the attitude when you are asking other people to do your raid member's work for him?
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05/17/08, 12:11 AM
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#1444
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Glass Joe
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Question about Wrath
I have always wondered how people are able to determine whether their wrath casts crit before they are going to cast another spell. For example, I see some people say, "I cast wrath until I proc Nature's grace, then I cast starfire. The problem I'm having is that, since wrath is a missle type spell, I will not know if it crits right away, you have to wait until it hits the mob. Therefore, I am already casting another wrath and approximately .7 secs into the cast until I realize it crit. At that time it would be impracticable to stop my 1/2 done cast and replace it with a starfire. This issue is obviously something that many people have encountered since the beginning of wow I just have never found a solution to the problem.
The only solution I could think of was to stand right next to the mob you are attacking, but almost in every case, there is a good reason why you stay 40 or so yards away from a mob. Does the combat log register the damage done to the mob as soon as the cast is complete even though the actual spell hasn't finished it's animation and made contact with the mob? If the combat log doesn't show it, is there a mod that will show it? I run wow generally at 110ms so the lag shouldn't be that bad. What i don't see is the nature's Grace proc buff until the spell has actually hit the mob. Could that just be lag, my crappy reaction time or do you need a mod to see the buff right when the cast is done.
What would make perfect sense is to make a macro such as this, and bind it to one key.
/cast wrath
/cast starfire [when the buff nature's grace is on]
Eventually, when I have better gear I wont be casting wrath at all, but for 5 mans, trash and farming it would always help too. I can't believe that I haven't found this info yet and I'm surprised that Blizzard would make wrath a missile type spell with a talent such as nature's grace. If someone has a macro such as that, thats a little cleaner than mine :p, could you post it? Also, could someone include the idol swapping macro into that macro??
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05/17/08, 12:26 AM
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#1445
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Mercurial Rapper
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NG procs immediately, so you know if your wrath will crit when it lands the moment you get done casting it. Switching to SF when that happens seems like it still wouldn't be much of a win, though, since you're probably introducing a fair amount of reaction time into the process.
Edit: you're != your, sigh
Last edited by Melador : 05/17/08 at 10:25 AM.
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05/17/08, 2:12 AM
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#1446
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Silver Hand
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Originally Posted by Melador
NG procs immediately, so you know if you're wrath will crit when it lands the moment you get done casting it. Switching to SF when that happens seems like it still wouldn't be much of a win, though, since you're probably introducing a fair amount of reaction time into the process.
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^ is completely true. NG procs as soon as cast goes off, before the spell even lands. This was changed quite some time ago.
Because the wrath cast time=GCD and you should be 'precasting' the next spell, you will be losing casting time trying to switch back and forth on NG procs. With COS and NG procs (makes SF roughly equal to wrath in dps) you should be casting SF over wrath during most boss fights. Wrath is for movement fights or portions of boss fights when you know interrupts are incoming or common, Ex Silence cooldown is up or boss aoe stuns every so often etc. It can also be useful early in a fight before the tank has a big aggro lead so as to not pull aggro with a big SF crit, but i typically cast iFF and dots early on to avoid that problem anyway. Now if they made wrath not consume NG, (and you had surplus mana) it might be a different story.
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05/18/08, 2:25 AM
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#1447
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Kel'Thuzad
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Originally Posted by thedopefishlives
This is how Rawr works, except it always forces you to allow the dots to expire; you can never clip your dots. One interesting result of that is if you have .000012047 seconds left on your dot, it will try to cast another Starfire/Wrath, which is an obvious loss of DPS. I'll try to insert pseudo-clipping into b14.1, where if the dot clip is less than a certain small amount (say, your character's latency), it will clip the dot rather than casting another spell.
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Rawr is doing wierd things for me...it's showing me gem-layouts that are higher on its little dmg graphs then my reckless pyrestone ones, but then even when I "equip" them in rawr, my DPS in my spell rotations goes down ? ...and it seems to love giving these high ratings to +10 spi and +10 int gems? How can those ever be better then +dmg stuff?
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05/18/08, 2:33 AM
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#1448
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Happy October 19th!
Night Elf Druid
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by ariyana
Rawr is doing wierd things for me...it's showing me gem-layouts that are higher on its little dmg graphs then my reckless pyrestone ones, but then even when I "equip" them in rawr, my DPS in my spell rotations goes down ? ...and it seems to love giving these high ratings to +10 spi and +10 int gems? How can those ever be better then +dmg stuff?
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You're going OOM.
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05/18/08, 7:06 AM
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#1449
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Von Kaiser
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A good trick for any of these theorycraft programs(or spreadsheets) is to set your shadow priest as giving you 5000mp5. This way it won't calculate mana into things. This keeps the gear in the proper order that you would expect.
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05/18/08, 11:26 AM
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#1450
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Happy October 19th!
Night Elf Druid
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by Khalanis
A good trick for any of these theorycraft programs(or spreadsheets) is to set your shadow priest as giving you 5000mp5. This way it won't calculate mana into things. This keeps the gear in the proper order that you would expect.
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Or set the fight to be so short that mana can't be an issue. Or, use Rawr's listing of Raw DPS, which is DPS without mana limitations.
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05/18/08, 8:12 PM
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#1451
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Glass Joe
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I have a semi- on-topic question that arose a few minutes ago.
Moonfire has a DD Coefficient of 14.87%, and a DoT Coefficient of 52.24%. With 2t6 we observe a 5th tick, at the same amount of damage as a regular Moonfire. Is it safe to say that 2t6 increases the DoT coefficient by 25% of itself?
What I'm asking is, does 2t6 increase the DoT coefficient to 65.3%, for a total coefficient of 80.17%?
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05/19/08, 6:05 AM
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#1452
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Hellfire (EU)
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Originally Posted by tehdarkknight
I have a semi- on-topic question that arose a few minutes ago.
Moonfire has a DD Coefficient of 14.87%, and a DoT Coefficient of 52.24%. With 2t6 we observe a 5th tick, at the same amount of damage as a regular Moonfire. Is it safe to say that 2t6 increases the DoT coefficient by 25% of itself?
What I'm asking is, does 2t6 increase the DoT coefficient to 65.3%, for a total coefficient of 80.17%?
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without 2T6 u get 4 ticks with a 13.02% coefficient each, totalling to 4x 13.02% = 52.09% on the DoT part
with 2T6 u get 5 ticks with a 13.02% coefficient each, totalling to 5x 13.02% = 65.12% on the DoT part
together with the 14.95% from the DD that's 80.07% total. but keep in mind - DD can crit, DoT not.
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05/19/08, 10:03 AM
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#1453
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Adoriele
Or set the fight to be so short that mana can't be an issue. Or, use Rawr's listing of Raw DPS, which is DPS without mana limitations.
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Setting the fight too short is not recommended, because I have seen personally that it is STILL possible to be OOM in the calculations even with a fight length as short as 1 min. I know that doesn't sound logical, but it's true. Therefore, the "officially supported" method of eliminating mana questions is to use the new Raw DPS feature.
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05/20/08, 4:07 AM
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#1454
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Frostmane
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Wrath
The current spreadsheet you have up seems to work rather well. I think the only issues I have with it are that it doesn't have the updated mana regen, and that it doesn't seem to be able to use my trinkets and drums. With my trinkets used in cunjunction with my drums, I think my wrath comes out to do more dps.
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05/20/08, 4:08 AM
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#1455
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Frostmane
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Wrath
The current spreadsheet you have up seems to work rather well. I think the only issues I have with it are that it doesn't have the updated mana regen, and that it doesn't seem to be able to use my trinkets and drums. With my trinkets used in cunjunction with my drums, I think my IS,MF,wrathx(6-7) rotation comes out to do more dps.
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