Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet - Page 99

koallaj · 05/21/08, 3:46 PM

By looking at the 80c spreadsheet as it comes (before adjusting it to my gear), it appears there is a point where haste > hit (replace a reckless pyrestone, +5haste+6dmg, with a veiled pyrostone,+5hit+6dmg). Note that the setup is not hit capped so it's not that unless I'm missing something.

I'm curious as to what point this is, but I don't really feel like researching for the answer and hope someone else already has?

Editing to add the quote about haste vs crit

Hit (until cap) > +spell > crit

for Moonkin PvE. A point of Haste is worth about a point of +Spell when your +Spell is about 1200 more than your haste rating (the raw crossover is about 1100, but that assumes no lag, pure SF spam and no mana issues). Above that limit a point of haste is better than a point of spell, but not by much. Below that limit stack spell.

A point of crit doesn't become worth as much as a point of spell until much later (+spell at 1600 or so, and at least 100 times as high as your crit% IIRC). Crits are nice, and NG is cool, but the math says that point-for-point, +spell is better.

EDIT: I have another problem with the 80c spreadsheet. Changing the 7stam5haste gem in the Thunderheart Footwraps to a 5haste6dmg should in my mind increase dps--we've kept the same amount of haste, lost stam which does nothing for dps for moonkins, and added 6 dmg--so why does the spreadsheet show less dps with that swap?

• Adoriele · 05/21/08, 4:11 PM

Originally Posted by koallaj

By looking at the 80c spreadsheet as it comes (before adjusting it to my gear), it appears there is a point where haste > hit (replace a reckless pyrestone, +5haste+6dmg, with a veiled pyrostone,+5hit+6dmg). Note that the setup is not hit capped so it's not that unless I'm missing something.

I'm curious as to what point this is, but I don't really feel like researching for the answer and hope someone else already has?

Editing to add the quote about haste vs crit

EDIT: I have another problem with the 80c spreadsheet. Changing the 7stam5haste gem in the Thunderheart Footwraps to a 5haste6dmg should in my mind increase dps--we've kept the same amount of haste, lost stam which does nothing for dps for moonkins, and added 6 dmg--so why does the spreadsheet show less dps with that swap?

Yeah, given SF spam, I can't get Haste to beat Hit before hit caps. I don't have rotations modeled yet, but those would generally favor Hit, as haste doesn't affect DoTs very much. How much of a difference are you noticing?

As for the gem in Thunderheart, two things come to mind. Is the socket Blue, and if not, how many other blue gems do you have equipped? You may be deactivating either the socket bonus or the CSD Meta gem.

koallaj · 05/21/08, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Yeah, given SF spam, I can't get Haste to beat Hit before hit caps. I don't have rotations modeled yet, but those would generally favor Hit, as haste doesn't affect DoTs very much. How much of a difference are you noticing?

As for the gem in Thunderheart, two things come to mind. Is the socket Blue, and if not, how many other blue gems do you have equipped? You may be deactivating either the socket bonus or the CSD Meta gem.

I'm just looking at the numbers the spreadsheet is giving. Download the 80c version and don't change anything, just look at what's already there. The max dps is MFx2SFx13, ~1932dps, hit is at 118, haste 366, etc. If you change anyone of the reckless pyrostones to a veiled pyrostone (same color gem, both with 6dmg, just 5 haste vs 5 hit) you will see a decrease in the max dps(~1925).
This leads me to assume with that setup haste is worth more than hit.
With a less highend gear setup hit gives more dps than haste. I'm trying to find out where the split is.
Edit: I think I know what it issue is...it's probably set up for 3% elemental shammy hit bonus...yep

duh, the meta gem is what I was missing with the second question I had, thanks.

Klawz · 05/21/08, 8:32 PM

so im at 171 hit rating. Not gemmed or chanted for it, it just happens the items I have aquired give me such.

I would like to know what amount of haste I should shoot for, and if I should try to maintain a certain amount of crit in the process?

Also I was talking to another boomkin earlier and they told me that at 132 hit rating they only get resisted 0.8%, so should I shoot for about that instead of 152 to give me that leeway?

tehdarkknight · 05/21/08, 11:36 PM

Hey, this is kind of a late reply to an earlier post regarding AutoHotKeys, but a Blizzard poster has stated that Software AND Hardware that simulate multiple keypresses are bannable.

Yeah, that's definitely a violation of our policies.

Basically, anything that circumvents our normal Macro rules, and automates successive key strokes is not okay. Basically, a cast sequence macro is fine, as each function requires a key stroke.

Something like this? Never okay, as a single press creates many keystrokes in succession in addition to several other prohibited functions (pauses in hardware functions, for example).

Source: WoW Forums -> Scripting & Macros

Vodrin · 05/22/08, 12:06 AM

Isn't the spreadsheet seriously overating spell haste? It seems you are calculating cast time as;

hasted cast time = cast time * (1-haste%)

The correct way would be;

hasted cast time = cast time / (1+haste%)

While at low numbers of haste this doesn't make a noticeable difference at the higher range it does. Entering 1575 haste rating into the gear sheet (100% spell haste) should half your spell casts, the sheet is putting them at instant cast (+latency etc.).
100% haste = 100% more casts.

Its also using 1.5s for hardcap on minimum cast time when it should now be 1s.

• Adoriele · 05/22/08, 1:13 AM

Originally Posted by Vodrin

Isn't the spreadsheet seriously overating spell haste? It seems you are calculating cast time as;

hasted cast time = cast time * (1-haste%)

The correct way would be;

hasted cast time = cast time / (1+haste%)

While at low numbers of haste this doesn't make a noticeable difference at the higher range it does. Entering 1575 haste rating into the gear sheet (100% spell haste) should half your spell casts, the sheet is putting them at instant cast (+latency etc.).
100% haste = 100% more casts.

Its also using 1.5s for hardcap on minimum cast time when it should now be 1s.

Yes, this is a known issue with the spreadsheet. Luckily, you won't have to worry about getting 1500 spell haste on your gear until well after the next expansion is finished. Also, if you know where the calculations are being made, you should easily be able to fix them in your copy.

Muay · 05/22/08, 5:02 AM

A lot of high-end raidbosses increase resistances and I don't see how 0.8% is possible with dropping that much.

• Adoriele · 05/22/08, 9:37 AM

Originally Posted by Muay

A lot of high-end raidbosses increase resistances and I don't see how 0.8% is possible with dropping that much.

151/152 is our hit cap when specced correctly. 132 is a difference of about 1.5%, giving 2.5% chance to miss. It is very likely that, on a single boss fight where he got resisted only once, it will report .8% resist. Such is the nature of random resists. In fact, any listing under 1% by definition must be caused by being lucky with the RNG, as it's impossible to have less than 1% resist rate. Ignoring that, it's also possible that he had an Elemental Shaman in his group, which would put him past the cap as well.

nakedduck · 05/22/08, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by tehdarkknight

Hey, this is kind of a late reply to an earlier post regarding AutoHotKeys, but a Blizzard poster has stated that Software AND Hardware that simulate multiple keypresses are bannable.

Source: WoW Forums -> Scripting & Macros

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. I did download the laginfo and i was getting 110-150 "spell lag". I ended up binding my starfire to my mousewheel scroll which brought it down to 10-20.

nakedduck · 05/22/08, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Klawz

so im at 171 hit rating. Not gemmed or chanted for it, it just happens the items I have aquired give me such.

I would like to know what amount of haste I should shoot for, and if I should try to maintain a certain amount of crit in the process?

Also I was talking to another boomkin earlier and they told me that at 132 hit rating they only get resisted 0.8%, so should I shoot for about that instead of 152 to give me that leeway?

you need 152 hit rating with 2/2 BoP to cap. If your friend is getting .8% resists, he's getting lucky with RNG or has a elemShaman in the group

Bellawynn · 05/22/08, 1:53 PM

you need 152 hit rating with 2/2 BoP to cap. If your friend is getting .8% resists, he's getting lucky with RNG or has a elemShaman in the group

No, he's getting lucky. No matter how much +hit you have, whether it be from gear, talents, or totems, you cannot avoid the 1% chance to miss. So any number <1% is luck, or an insufficient data set.

nakedduck · 05/22/08, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bellawynn

No, he's getting lucky. No matter how much +hit you have, whether it be from gear, talents, or totems, you cannot avoid the 1% chance to miss. So any number <1% is luck, or an insufficient data set.

Sorry, wasn't implying you could get under 1%, just that with 138 +hit, in theory, he should have had > 1%

dathis · 05/22/08, 11:44 PM

I have read most of this post and know this is a little of topic but I also know a lot of end game druids read this.
My guild is 2/6 SWP and I am having a very hard time getting into raids lately because as my GM puts is "My DPS flat out sucks". Without linking a WSS report I can tell you I am generally between 3-8 on bosses on meters and my record is 1541DPS on Rage. However when group synergy is not ideal I am often the first person to lose Shadow Priest or Elemental shamans or even hunters.

My Questions is this? Do you guys always get a SP and Elemental Shaman when I see the big moonkin DPS numbers and where do you generally compare to others on DPS meters for boss fights. Also If other casters are getting an elemental shaman and Shadow Priest and I am getting nothing is it even possible for me to compete? Thanks a ton in advance for anyone that can help me with this.

Also i know this is very off topic but was not sure were to post so any suggestions about where a more relevant place to pot that gets this much exposure would be greatly appreciated

-A Frustrated Boomkin

Lambach · 05/23/08, 3:20 AM

If you arent getting the elemental shaman, then it sounds like your team make up is a bit strange. Do you have 2 full caster groups? It seems that the same people that benefit from the elemental shaman are the same ones that would benefit from the moonkin aura. Although, you really dont need a spriest, I cant see why you wouldnt get a shaman.