[Resto] Simple Questions + WoL Feedback - Page 2

Danorager · 04/22/11, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by czeshirecat

I wasn't sure whether to post here or on the general resto cataclysm release thread.
My main is resto, my gear level is 354 and Im a member of a pretty lowly guild regarding cata raid progression.
Last night I raided for the first time with another guildy who's avg gear level is lower than mine but who was matching or surpassing me on recount for HPS.
As always when I play with another resto, I went to compare his spec later.
My specc priorities have (for upto tier 11, 359s) been Spirit, Haste > 12.5% (1600), mastery/crit.
Unbuffed my combat regen is 2250, Haste 12.5, spell power 7280, crit 16.65 and mastery 11.10.
He, on the other hand has combat regen of 2154, Haste 3.86, crit 16.37 and mastery 17.06
I came to check out EJ as I've not been here for a while and there was little advice for a while after cata began.
In the general breakdown, I noticed that haste has been demoted (you run out of mana faster) and mastery promoted since early days. But in the thread itself there's still a lot of talk about haste calculations as if others still value haste.

Is there a simple, non controversial recommendation for specc priorities and levels to aim for at certain gearing levels?
I was about to dump my haste and respec/reforge, but Im very wary about doing this without checking first.

I've found that the general advice is either (a) push your haste to 2005 (if it doesn't kill more than 100-150 int from re-gemming) or (b) keep your haste around 920 or so, and reforge the rest in to mastery.

I recently decided to push my haste above the 2005 breakpoint and I noticed a HUGE increase in my WG healing. Yes - I had to watch my mana closely, because I lost nearly 300 spirit in order to do so, but I believe that it was worth it.

I've also found that if you do decide to push the haste above 2005, you're much better suited to cover group heals, as your mastery does not have as much impact as it does if you're only at 920 haste (because the rest of reforging should go to mastery instead of haste). If you're mastery heavy, you should focus on tank healing, IMO.

Angarr · 04/22/11, 12:47 PM

Gear:
Your gems are defensible as you are obviously trying to reach the 2005 haste cap at practically all costs. Despite that I would really recommend you replace 40 Haste gems with 40 intellect as soon as you can. As an aside, if you're just getting started healing 10 man normals it's probably worth a shot to try avoiding the 2005 haste breakpoint and just stacking mastery beyond the 915 Rejuv haste breakpoint.

Also, you almost certainly don't want Hurricane on your weapon. Try Heartsong instead (or power torrent if you can afford it).

WoL:
Looking at your logs two things jump out at me. The first is that you absolutely are not using Swiftmend enough. Swiftmend is one of our most efficient heals and because you don't have Efflorescence you have almost no reason not to use it on cooldown. 7 Swiftmends over the course of V&T as well as only 5 Swiftmends for Halfus is simply not using that spell often enough.

The other bit that jumps out at me is how far apart your healing from Rejuvenation and Wild Growth are. For V&T you were 45.7% Wild Growth and 17.6% Rejuv. Prioritizing 2005 haste as you are doing will almost assuredly put Wild Growth at the top of your breakdown, but 45.7% of your healing really surprises me. For Halfus the difference wasn't so shocking, but it is worth mentioning that you probably want to get more work out of Rejuv. With that said, I want to mention that it's possible you're using these spells correctly. I look at a lot of Resto Druid Logs and I don't believe I've seen Wild Growth that high before. I'm used to seeing WG and Rejuv within a few percent of each other.

Spec:
Nature's Ward is not what you want for PvE. Move those points to Perseverance if you want more survivability. Other than that your spec looks defensible.

Kthx · 04/26/11, 3:46 PM

I have been reviewing logs from our raids and I seem to be pretty high on the overhealing. We typically run 7 healers on all fights, with an extra if needed for heroics. I have been thinking that it would be appropriate to drop a healer, and have considered bringing this up, and I think that the amount of overhealing that I am doing alone warrants this. I picked 4 logs from the past few weeks, and the lowest was about 30%, the highest being 65%. I'm coming here for advice, because there is not very much communication between our healers, and I have the suspicion that I would not likely get much intelligent feedback either.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

If anyone can help me figure out if:
a. I'm doing something wrong to cause this (seemingly) high amount of overhealing
b. This is normal
c. We should drop a healer

I would appreciate any feed back at all.

edited to add: Other than Halfus, I am primarily raid heals, and backing up tank healers (keeping tanks hot'd).

PanisSkullcrusher · 04/26/11, 4:50 PM

I'm trying to decide if points for me (not in general, just for how I heal) are better spent in Living Seed versus Blessing of the Grove. I'd like to describe my methodology here so I go about it in the correct way. Any feedback on that would be appreciated.

My plan is to go back through my logs for the past few weeks and compare the healing done by Rejuv and Living Seed. I'd take the raw healing Rejuv did for that fight and multiply it by .04 to see how much extra healing (the delta) Blessing of the Grove would have done for that fight. I would then take that delta and subtract the over-healing % of Rejuv on that fight to see how much net healing Rejuv would provide. I'd also find the net healing of Living Seed (raw healing of Living Seed less the % over-healed). I would divide the Rejuv net healing by 2 since it takes 2 talent points and the Living Seed net by 3 since I am spec'd into it with 3 talent points. The final numbers would be healing per talent point for that fight.

Sasazuka · 04/26/11, 6:19 PM

Tangedyn has already did something similar here. End result is that both Living Seed (favors tank healing) and Blessing of the Grove doesn't offer all that much.

rafikki · 04/27/11, 7:27 PM

I think I'm doing OK overall, but I'd appreciate any feedback anyone has. This WoL parse was the most recent I could find, but it's from before I had any 372 gear, maybe even an epic weapon for what it's worth. I generally have one tank assigned to me, and assist with raid healing otherwise.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

A couple of notes: I never use nourish, I basically haven't found a time I'd rather have the lower health cast. Maybe that's a failure on my part, but I don't tend to have mana issues between alch stone+conc pot/Tyrande's Doll/Innervates/Mana Tidet etc. I saw cb say above that Swiftmend should basically be used on cooldown, which I don't generally do as I (depending in the fight) try to save it more for emergencies so that may actually be an opportunity. Another thing I always think of too late is that I don't use ToL nearly often enough. I have that old conundrum going in my head about whether I really want to use it now, or am I likely to wish I had it later when it's on cooldown. Similar situation with Tranq, though that's obviously changed a bit with the patch.

Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone that takes the time to give me any feedback. I'm currently logged out in healer gear, and I think the resto spec armory has right now isn't my usual one. If the armory doesn't show my resto gear, this is a mostly accurate wowhead profile, though the stats aren't matching my character sheet exactly: Profiler - Wowhead I'm going to ask vedi if he has some of the more recent parses elsewhere for more of our heroic kills.

♦ Carebare · 04/27/11, 8:47 PM

Just at a quick glance (Halfus H), your WG is disproportionately high with respect to your other spells. This could be because you're filling your time with cast time spells, but I suspect it's more a result of not being aggressive enough with RJ. Looking at a parse of mine from prior to the patch (since based on your efflor numbers, this was clearly a pre-patch log), my hps is lower owing mostly to the fact that we 7 healed it to your 6.5 (you have another druid with 51% presence) -- but my breakdown is a bit more indicative of using more tools (World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis).

The following things stand out:

Our fight was one minute shorter, but I still doubled your Swiftmend use. This really is a powerful spell, especially now with the buffs to efflor -- you should be using it on/near on cooldown. Generally speaking someone is always low enough, and failing that, given its low mana cost you really might consider casting it anyhow now.
I'm blind, or you never used ToL. If I'm blind, my apologies. If not, you really want to use it -- especially on a fight like Halfus given that it starts out pretty hectic and would allow you to provide broad coverage to the tanks.
Looking at your current gear your reforges are just coming out odd for me on armory. You reforged mastery into haste/spirit, and then haste/crit back into mastery? Might just be the way the stats work out on the gear, but it struck me as odd.
Are you trading innervates? I assume so given the second druid, but if not you ought to consider HT glyph -- particularly as you say you tend to have a tank assigned to you.
Spec wise, I am a strong supporter of NS though I realize not everyone is a fan. Out of curiosity is your mana so tight that you really need 2 in furor and 2 in moonglow -- can you spare anything to work into genesis?

Overall it's not bad. Basically just use Swiftmend more, and generally speaking you should always be at/over 100% presence unless fight mechanics make it impossible (think normal Putricide with long pause type periods).

rafikki · 04/28/11, 8:20 AM

Thanks for the feedback. As I said,i had never really thought to use swiftmend on cooldown. I generally tried to keep it in reserve for a quick top off, but I'll give it a shot next raid. ToL is definitely an opportunity. The gear reforges may be silly on my part, but the calculator I plugged my gear in showed that as the simplest way to get barely above a given haste breakpoint then max out mastery. The spec is just a bastardization I threw together when I didn't have talented running yesterday and needed to grab nature's cure for bh.

Thanks again for taking a look!

red8981 · 04/28/11, 1:21 PM

My guild is doing Hard mode 7/10 in BWD and BoT for 25man
I do not know, if i am doing anything wrong. The following link is to my Hard Mode Halfus.
My role was heal the tank with another disc priest, so basically putting Life Bloom on tank, and heal the raid, but keep a eye on the tank if he get low.
I innervate myself on CD or less than 80% of mana.
After All drakes are down, I am basically OOM
So, I wonder do I need more spirit, or do I just simply did too much overhealing that wasted mana?
My profile on Wowhead is: Profiler - Wowhead

I would like to have some feedback on what should I improve

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Thanks,

PanisSkullcrusher · 04/28/11, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by Sasazuka

Tangedyn has already did something similar here. End result is that both Living Seed (favors tank healing) and Blessing of the Grove doesn't offer all that much.

Thanks. After looking at my logs I got pretty much the same result: both are underwhelming. Living Seed is slightly better I guess for me because I mainly tank heal and my Rejuv's overheal for so much while LS is much less.

Jhonnyutah · 05/04/11, 12:35 PM

Hey there,

I am primarily a 10 man healer, and have thus far kept to the 915 haste breakpoint and stacked mastery up to 23%. My gear is such that if I really stretched it I could probably reach the 2005 breakpoint at the expense of (obviously) a lot of mastery, some spirit and even some int. (it doesnt really help that so much of my gear has mastery on it natively)

Ive been hearing anecdotal reports that with the new efflo change scaling with the breakpoint, that I there will be a considerable throughput increase if I do infact reach the WG breakpoint. This is despite, according to some people, taking a loss of even 300 int to get there.

This seems really hard for me to swallow somehow, as mastery (at least in 10 mans) seems extremely powerful for reasons that you all know.

My healing is not suffering at the moment by any stretch, but obviously I want to be the best I can be. Can anyone offer their insight to the mastery/haste question as it pertains to 10 man healing in the 4.1 enivronment?

Danorager · 05/05/11, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by Jhonnyutah

Hey there,

I am primarily a 10 man healer, and have thus far kept to the 915 haste breakpoint and stacked mastery up to 23%. My gear is such that if I really stretched it I could probably reach the 2005 breakpoint at the expense of (obviously) a lot of mastery, some spirit and even some int. (it doesnt really help that so much of my gear has mastery on it natively)

Ive been hearing anecdotal reports that with the new efflo change scaling with the breakpoint, that I there will be a considerable throughput increase if I do infact reach the WG breakpoint. This is despite, according to some people, taking a loss of even 300 int to get there.

This seems really hard for me to swallow somehow, as mastery (at least in 10 mans) seems extremely powerful for reasons that you all know.

My healing is not suffering at the moment by any stretch, but obviously I want to be the best I can be. Can anyone offer their insight to the mastery/haste question as it pertains to 10 man healing in the 4.1 enivronment?

I too was struggling with this decision about whether or not to dump some int in order to gain the haste 2005 break point (this was at 4.06). I was in the same situation you were, and I decided to try it out and see the difference. This has been my experience:

1. My recount numbers in terms of total healing went up dramatically. However, with the switch to the 2005 haste breakpoint, I also changed my healing style considerable. I was primarily a tank heals - but as you know, in 10-man content, you realistically heal everyone in the raid...not just the tank. Now I focus more on raid heals because WG has become so powerful. I probably saw a jump of about 1-2k effective HPS because of the haste change and my switching to using WG nearly every time it is on CD. My WG numbers jumped from 2nd or 3rd place to a dominant first (accounting for a minimum of 35-40% of my effective HPS),

2, However, I am also "stuck" with my gear. Since I reforged everything to haste, gemmed a couple of slots with either +40 haste gems (in the fading violet sandles to get the extra +10 haste) and a few other spot gemmed with reckless (+20int/+20haste), everytime I come up with an upgrade that would increase my Intelligence, I need to make certain that I maintain my haste at 2005. For instance, I use the Sea Star trinket (heroic version) that grants +285 spirit. I reforged it to give me another +114 haste. In order to replace this trinket - even with one that would give me +321 intelligence - I would need to make up that 114 haste somewhere else. That's three Rubys that I would need to lose to make up for the haste. Clearly it is worth it to do so, but that is just an example of the itemization that you would need to take in to account as you switch over to haste-based gear.

3. Since I was reforging in to haste, I was reforging out of spirit - so now my mana regen has gone down noticably. This means I need to keep a closer eye on my mana.

4. All that being said, I would DEFINATELY do it again. The extra haste that I have seen increases my WG healing so it is still a no-brainer.

Does that help?

Danorager · 05/05/11, 9:48 AM

I would like some assistance in better understanding the numbers that come out of the world of logs reports. Let's take this report as an example:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Looking at the Wild Growth line item, I'm confused about the following items:

1. Healing Done - this is pretty straight forward - its overall healing done, right? It is NOT effective healing, correct?
2. Hits - This is not relevant to WG because WG is a pure HoT - there are not direct hits like there would be for HT or Regrowth, correct? For the HT and RG numbers - the hits are the non-crit heals, correct?
3. Crits - This is the number of times WG critted - since WG doesn't crit, it looks like the numbers are duplicated for crits and Direct Heals (they are redundant numbers), correct? Furthermore, for WG what defines a Crit/Direct Heal versus a Tick?
You can see that I had 206 Crits, 206 Direct Heals and 604 ticks. What does this mean? Does this mean that I cast it (roughly) 38 times and it hit 6 people each time (roughly)...38*6 = 228 (of course there are going to be some times where it didn't hit all 6 people).

4. On the Ticks, it shows 604 ticks - what does this number represent? If I did cast it 38 times, I have the 2005 haste breakpoint, so it should tick 6 times - by my calculations, it should tick 1300 times, across 6 people - but I'm showing half that many.

Please help me decipher these numbers

Thanks!

red8981 · 05/05/11, 12:44 PM

Healing done is the effective healing thats been done, Read last column of the chart, it says,"Overheal."

1. Healing Done - this is pretty straight forward - its overall healing done, right? It is NOT effective healing, correct?

Healing done is the effective healing thats been done, Read last column of the chart, it says,"Overheal."

2. Hits - This is not relevant to WG because WG is a pure HoT - there are not direct hits like there would be for HT or Regrowth, correct? For the HT and RG numbers - the hits are the non-crit heals, correct?

4. On the Ticks, it shows 604 ticks - what does this number represent? If I did cast it 38 times, I have the 2005 haste breakpoint, so it should tick 6 times - by my calculations, it should tick 1300 times, across 6 people - but I'm showing half that many.

Hit is non-crit heals
Crits is crit heals
Direct heal is total heals
Ticks are for HoTs.
for WG, how you know you casted it 38 times? Even if you did, are you 100% that it always hits 6 people?

3. Crits - This is the number of times WG critted - since WG doesn't crit, it looks like the numbers are duplicated for crits and Direct Heals (they are redundant numbers), correct? Furthermore, for WG what defines a Crit/Direct Heal versus a Tick?
You can see that I had 206 Crits, 206 Direct Heals and 604 ticks. What does this mean? Does this mean that I cast it (roughly) 38 times and it hit 6 people each time (roughly)...38*6 = 228 (of course there are going to be some times where it didn't hit all 6 people).
I thought all HoTs can be crits, Only the new Efflorescence can not crits.

I maybe wrong, but thats what I think those numbers are, Hope it helps =]

red8981 · 05/05/11, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jhonnyutah

Hey there,

I am primarily a 10 man healer, and have thus far kept to the 915 haste breakpoint and stacked mastery up to 23%. My gear is such that if I really stretched it I could probably reach the 2005 breakpoint at the expense of (obviously) a lot of mastery, some spirit and even some int. (it doesnt really help that so much of my gear has mastery on it natively)

Ive been hearing anecdotal reports that with the new efflo change scaling with the breakpoint, that I there will be a considerable throughput increase if I do infact reach the WG breakpoint. This is despite, according to some people, taking a loss of even 300 int to get there.

This seems really hard for me to swallow somehow, as mastery (at least in 10 mans) seems extremely powerful for reasons that you all know.

My healing is not suffering at the moment by any stretch, but obviously I want to be the best I can be. Can anyone offer their insight to the mastery/haste question as it pertains to 10 man healing in the 4.1 enivronment?

Higher haste make your HoTs tick faster, which may result in less overheal.
In the ideal world, if a Full HoTs considered, mastery>haste, except when you hit a haste point.
In the real world, not that often that a Full HoTs will be done unless you two healing 10man content and/or doing heroic modes.

All that comes to a simple, pre HoTs situation.
Pre HoT before the damage is coming, WG then Rejuv the same target, so you benefits from the master, etc...

The new Efflorescence does scale with haste break points, and ideally mastery should be better than haste if not a haste break point.

Anyone can confirm if efflorescence scale benefit from master? such as healing HoT'ed target will be more than healing non-HoT'ed target?