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Old 01/16/11, 2:11 PM   #421
Greentouch
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Tosya View Post
Oh, sorry, I realy messed up with terminology. I was talking about storm shield (I hope I got it right this time).
Ah, that was a challenge. Everyone needs to know living is by far the most important part of this encounter with so much crap going on. So that means using CD's wherever needed.

We had 2 priests on wind, and as I said I'd help heal everyone back to full and have hots rolling before I left (leaving like 1-2 seconds before the shield) If there wasn't much time between when the group comes back to wind, and the shield (I forget which jump that was, its pretty much the same each time though) that's when I used tranquility. Having everyone topped off before the shield is top priority. Priests are the best healers for the shield since they are the burst healing masters currently.

When the shield goes up, burning it down is top priority, dps needs to save short term cd's, pool their energy/rage/rp, and blow it up asap.

We found the shield could be more of an issue than the frost ultimate, since we had almost all the healers on frost for that, the raid stacked on all the healing rains/sanctuary, and a power barrier/divine guardian/AMZ. So wind dps would save personal cd's for the Storm Shield. IBF/AMS/Barkskin, and or, of course, [Mirror of Broken Images]. Rogues should have Feint glyphed and using it off cd for any aoe damage as a matter of course, and can use Cloak if needed as well. (Rogues are the only class that will probably never need the trinket.)


If you do all that and shield still kills anyone, then you need more dps to burn the shield faster. Switch another dps or 2 to wind.

All anyone ever needs to know about being a Resto Druid in PVE, complete and up-to-date guide at: Resto Raiding Guide

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Old 01/16/11, 3:22 PM   #422
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Storm Shield is not bad once DPS learn to handle it. Once they're consistent about keeping it at 3 ticks or fewer, you just have to be there to top everyone off afterwards. Wind Blast is the big bane of the encounter--as personal responsibility/survival mechanics go, it's an unusually tricky one (while tornados are up, that is, otherwise it's not too bad). You basically just have to wait until people learn to dodge it consistently.

I had to do the solo-Hurricane job for a few attempts, and it was rough. Not an engineer so I had to take fall damage (with Cat Form), which leaves very little room for error. We wound up having a Priest do it.

Obligatory video:
YouTube - Juggernaut vs. Conclave of Wind, 25-man Heroic


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Old 01/16/11, 3:40 PM   #423
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
Storm Shield is not bad once DPS learn to handle it. Once they're consistent about keeping it at 3 ticks or fewer, you just have to be there to top everyone off afterwards. Wind Blast is the big bane of the encounter--as personal responsibility/survival mechanics go, it's an unusually tricky one (while tornados are up, that is, otherwise it's not too bad). You basically just have to wait until people learn to dodge it consistently.

I had to do the solo-Hurricane job for a few attempts, and it was rough. Not an engineer so I had to take fall damage (with Cat Form), which leaves very little room for error. We wound up having a Priest do it.

Obligatory video:
YouTube - Juggernaut vs. Conclave of Wind, 25-man Heroic
Provided you are healed up beforehand to at least 80%~ it isn't really hard to solo Hurricane. I tried to time LB to bloom in the middle of it, use Barkskin each time and just maintained RJ/LB and WG/SM timed appropriately. Followed by Cat Form as you said this usually resulted in me landing with over 40% hp the majority of the time. The only real times I had issues was when I was below say 50% hp upon entering it but we solved that by having a few others stay late on East (around 75-85 energy) and having the soaker jump around 80-85~ so they didn't really get nuked for long, or by themselves.

I would say we are the best healers for it though? we have more instants and hots to survive the ultimate and far superior mobility to heal and avoid the wind blast.

Last edited by Playered : 01/16/11 at 3:48 PM.

Originally Posted by Vontre
I don't know anything

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Old 01/16/11, 4:01 PM   #424
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
The problem I would have is the Gales afterwards. If I'd been unlucky had had 4-5 stacks of Gale going in, I couldn't keep up. I'd land and start getting more stacks immediately--by the time relief arrives it's getting to 8 stacks or so and out-DPSing full HT spam. It was actually easiest when there was a WB right after, since the incoming damage stops.

Perhaps at that point we could have just modified the strategy so I was arriving right before Hurricane, but we wound up doing other things.


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Old 01/16/11, 4:19 PM   #425
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
The problem I would have is the Gales afterwards. If I'd been unlucky had had 4-5 stacks of Gale going in, I couldn't keep up. I'd land and start getting more stacks immediately--by the time relief arrives it's getting to 8 stacks or so and out-DPSing full HT spam. It was actually easiest when there was a WB right after, since the incoming damage stops.

Perhaps at that point we could have just modified the strategy so I was arriving right before Hurricane, but we wound up doing other things.
4 was fairly common for me to have and survive when we used a tactic of me jumping around 70~ energy and having 2/3 waiting on the platform until about 80~ energy. After entering the Hurricane with 7+ stacks too frequently we arranged it that way however arranging it so you jump at 80 energy tends to provide you with only 2~ stacks.
Which one were you soaking and finding issues with? the first is very easy as you only get one gale before he starts wind blast and you can position yourself at his center so you can then run to the bridge as hes channeling it and potentially only take one more hit before leaving - even at high stacks entering the ultimate that one is very easy to recover from.

Originally Posted by Vontre
I don't know anything

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Old 01/16/11, 4:28 PM   #426
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
I did all of them for some attempts. I think the times I died, it was the second or third Hurricane.


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Old 01/16/11, 4:37 PM   #427
Greentouch
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
The problem I would have is the Gales afterwards. If I'd been unlucky had had 4-5 stacks of Gale going in, I couldn't keep up. I'd land and start getting more stacks immediately--by the time relief arrives it's getting to 8 stacks or so and out-DPSing full HT spam. It was actually easiest when there was a WB right after, since the incoming damage stops.

Perhaps at that point we could have just modified the strategy so I was arriving right before Hurricane, but we wound up doing other things.
If the druid isn't an engineer, then priests are good with levitate. However an engineer Resto is the best at soloing it.

Jumping over as late as possible is key, done right you should only 1, maybe 2 stacks going into hurricane. With 1 stack I could easily keep myself over 80% without the [Mirror of Broken Images] or barkskin, which enables you to use them during the subsequent gale nuking.

I think its worth mentioning again how damn good Engineering is for Resto. In my opinion its BY FAR our best profession. Even more so with Leatherworking being nerfed (they are adding int/agi/str wrist enchants, which balances LW to the same +80 stats of the others).
  • Worth 96 passive int used off CD. (Same regen as from the passive int)
  • Popped before Innervate once per fight you gain the same benefit as an equivalent amount of passive INT would give you Starting mana. Used with Innervate twice, you get twice the benefit! Etc.
  • Since it's controllable, you can use it at optimal times. Use it right before you pop Tranquility for a solid boost to our biggest spell. Use it with a burst of raid damage and instantly pop WG, so you can get 2 during its duration.
  • 18k shield has saved my bacon numerous times. Yes it can backfire and aoe taunt, so use it ASSUMING it will. The taunt has a 30 yard range, so either make sure you are at max range, or the boss is untauntable. Since I generally use it while the boss is channeling some major damage he isn't tauntable. (Think ultimate abilities on Conclave, or feud, etc.)
  • BIS (for 359) Helm.
  • And last and least, parachute. Very beneficial for Conclave at least.

Engineering certainly takes more micro management, but used well its pretty amazing.

All anyone ever needs to know about being a Resto Druid in PVE, complete and up-to-date guide at: Resto Raiding Guide

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Old 01/16/11, 5:24 PM   #428
Tosya
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Азурегос (EU)
Thank you all for so many responses! After Cataclysm release I'm raiding only 10m, but anyway most of advices fit 10m the same. Having so many information I'd like to try it, but my raid desided to do Chimaeron first. I hope we will return to Conclave after it.

Also here was very interesting discution about new builds after patch 4.0.6.

I'm thinking about two variants:
with Efflorescence and without
and I can't decide does efflosescence worth to sacriface 4 redjuv talants. Though I don't like it, it seems I'll have to often change speck for different fights.
Also in my raid I have to take Nature's cure for every fight where dispel is needed.

Last edited by Tosya : 01/16/11 at 9:49 PM.

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Old 01/17/11, 1:39 AM   #429
Lightflower
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dath'Remar
Originally Posted by Greentouch View Post
[*]18k shield has saved my bacon numerous times. Yes it can backfire and aoe taunt, so use it ASSUMING it will. The taunt has a 30 yard range, so either make sure you are at max range, or the boss is untauntable. Since I generally use it while the boss is channeling some major damage he isn't tauntable. (Think ultimate abilities on Conclave, or feud, etc.)
Wowhead lists 3 different failure modes for the shield with the AoE taunt being just one of them. Do you find the Magnetised debuff problematic at all?

Anecdotally, our MT uses his rocket boots constantly to return after wipes and has observed zero failures in a raid group in an instance for the past maybe week or so. Can anyone confirm that they have suffered an Engineering failure in an instance within that time? (our tank's working hypothesis is that the failure modes may no longer occur in raid instances so that tanks are encouraged to make use of Engineering)

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Old 01/17/11, 2:10 AM   #430
shadowreh
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Blackrock (EU)
@ Lightflower: I received several reports of a raiding dk of mine, that his rocket boots failed during our nefarian tries last night and prior to that while we were attempting conclave of wind.

On the topic of healing p2 of nefarian i wanted to ask how you keep your assigned pillar up.
So far i tried to refresh LB on myself with nourish and use reju in conjunction with nourish or healing touch on my assigned raidmembers. I heard that some people pop ToL and roll LB on each of their (max 2+self in 10 man) assigned players but that won't be possible with 4.0.6 anymore. Anyone got a more manaconserving method of keeping 3 people up without getting problems manawise without a shaman popping manatide at the beginning of p3?

Last edited by shadowreh : 01/17/11 at 2:26 AM.

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Old 01/17/11, 3:08 AM   #431
Greentouch
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Lightflower View Post
Wowhead lists 3 different failure modes for the shield with the AoE taunt being just one of them. Do you find the Magnetised debuff problematic at all?
I haven't noticed any malfunctions whatsoever in a raid. I'm rather paranoid so I'm cautious anyway. As I said the taunt isn't an issue if you make sure you are either at range or the boss is midchannal/not tauntable. I would assume we can shapeshift out of the magnetized. I'm not sure how 100% crit chance against you would work in pve, if you aren't being focused would it effect random aoe damage?

I have easily used the belt shield 100 times in raids and haven't even noticed any of the above anyway, so I would say its more benefit then hindrance. Especially used in oh shit cases where you might die without it. A 1 in a hundred chance to be killed by it is worth a 99% chance to be saved by it in my opinion.

All anyone ever needs to know about being a Resto Druid in PVE, complete and up-to-date guide at: Resto Raiding Guide

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Old 01/17/11, 5:48 AM   #432
rmq
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Свежеватель душ (EU)
Originally Posted by shadowreh View Post
On the topic of healing p2 of nefarian i wanted to ask how you keep your assigned pillar up.
So far i tried to refresh LB on myself with nourish and use reju in conjunction with nourish or healing touch on my assigned raidmembers. I heard that some people pop ToL and roll LB on each of their (max 2+self in 10 man) assigned players but that won't be possible with 4.0.6 anymore. Anyone got a more manaconserving method of keeping 3 people up without getting problems manawise without a shaman popping manatide at the beginning of p3?
I tried maintaining 3 stacks LB on my assigned players (2+self), but it wasn't very beneficial for me. Maybe just lack of experience, but still. I ended up healing (almost) the way you described, going oom for the begining of p3, drinking 22k mana potion and praying for innervate to go off cd. I even have a video of our first Nefarian kill, but it's poor quality and huge size. If you are interested, here it is: YouTube - Nefarian 10man
I should say that power torrent works quite well with innervate and the [Core of Ripeness] (we have no shamans to use the trinket with manatide). But except for this I don't know how to save more mana.

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Old 01/17/11, 7:07 AM   #433
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by rmq View Post
I tried maintaining 3 stacks LB on my assigned players (2+self), but it wasn't very beneficial for me. Maybe just lack of experience, but still. I ended up healing (almost) the way you described, going oom for the begining of p3, drinking 22k mana potion and praying for innervate to go off cd. I even have a video of our first Nefarian kill, but it's poor quality and huge size. If you are interested, here it is: YouTube - Nefarian 10man
I should say that power torrent works quite well with innervate and the [Core of Ripeness] (we have no shamans to use the trinket with manatide). But except for this I don't know how to save more mana.
Keeping LB up on 3 people during this phase is fairly trivial and Rejuvenations should not be needed at all. Just rotating Nourish on those 3 people and mixing in some HT when required should keep everyone up and will leave you at nearly full mana at the start of phase 3. With 3 stacks of lifebloom you will get very frequent OoC procs to use on Healing Touch. The Elecrocutes can be tough but almost all classes have some sort of defense against it and if you switch to only using Healing Touch shortly before and after it you should be fine barring extreme barrages on your pillar.

After the nerf to multiple lifeblooms you will likely have to rely a lot more on Rejuvenation to keep people up but this will lead to heavy mana drainage. The mana reduction and buff to Wild Growth should help loads though so you will probably be ok. Eating more than one Electrocute during the pillar phase is not recommended.

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Old 01/17/11, 8:04 AM   #434
rmq
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Свежеватель душ (EU)
Originally Posted by MatsT View Post
Keeping LB up on 3 people during this phase is fairly trivial and Rejuvenations should not be needed at all. Just rotating Nourish on those 3 people and mixing in some HT when required should keep everyone up and will leave you at nearly full mana at the start of phase 3. With 3 stacks of lifebloom you will get very frequent OoC procs to use on Healing Touch. The Elecrocutes can be tough but almost all classes have some sort of defense against it and if you switch to only using Healing Touch shortly before and after it you should be fine barring extreme barrages on your pillar.
Keeping LB is fairly trivial, when you just cast direct heals on each player once, but it wasn't the case. I'm on a platform wtih a fury warrior that claims he can't change stance to defensive, because he won't be able to kill the add in time (oh, and he interrupts also) and a mage, that didn't use his ice block at the time I tried maintaining LB stacks. Sometimes I just had to cast 2 or 3 HTs on one person and a stack on another was then lost. Maybe in my current gear and with ice block it will be better, but at the time I tried it was not worth it.

Last edited by rmq : 01/17/11 at 8:22 AM. Reason: forgot about warrior's interrupts

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Old 01/17/11, 8:05 AM   #435
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
For 10 man right now you can roll 3x LB from when you start to enter P2 and then mix in some WG/RJ+SM to manage the AoE and have no issues really. For 25 man you should try get a Priest on your platform and then you have him PoH healing one group and using their own tools in combination with yours, and you only have to manage the other 2-4 people not in his group.

In 4.0.6 in 10 man you should just spec Nature's Bounty and maintain the 3x RJ on the people on your platform together with a LB on yourself*. Nourish will be hasted then and fairly easy to use reactively where required and as RJ will be cheaper it shouldn't be that much of a drain on your pool although it obviously won't be nearly free like it is with multi LB.

Originally Posted by Vontre
I don't know anything

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