I've been getting between 20 and 30k mana from Mysterious Potions (at 525 skill) since the patch without any Alchemist Stone equipped (not using it in my normal healing setup).

Confirming this. Parsing some logs from the last few weeks, the average return for [Mysterious Potion] was 9.3k mana returned, while currently I'm getting closer to 20k without a Stone, and 26k with a stone equipped.

Any word on whether they buffed [Mysterious Potion] for non-Alchemists?

@Jurik: Point very well taken; Chimaeron and Cho'gall were the only two fights attempted after I made the switch to mastery, so my only sample size at the moment. Even still, I think the basic argument holds, that if it's possible to reach the 2004 haste cap without severely gimping yourself elsewhere, (and you're primarily a raid healer) haste is going to be more beneficial than mastery.

Basically what I have seen in my own experience through 8/12 hm's (25 man) this week is haste to 2004 is much better then mastery. We normally run 1-2 resto druids, we started the week with me getting to 2004 haste anyway I could, even using 3 straight haste gem's at one point. I had those 3 along with all other gems being reckless, while the other druid kept away from haste going strictly mastery after the 916 breakpoint. The fights he was in I consistently outhealed him. With the BIG difference being our WG healing. He has since switched to haste as well and is now keeping up with me again. I don't have any real numbers to verify from controlled testing (haven't had the time), just what I have seen in actual raids. And from that I would highly suggest you get to 2004 if at all possible, regem/reforge. I doubt downgrading anything more then 1 item would be beneficial though.

I know a lot of factor's can go into the reasoning behind the difference in our healing, but pre patch, we were normally pretty close to each other in terms of hps.

Another important thing to note about the Mandala (or other proc'd effects like Power Torrent or Lightweave) is that unless you're waiting so long to line up timers that you miss out on another innervate, there is no real effective mana loss; mana from Innervate is very discrete due to the 3 minute cooldown, you don't get partial innervates. If you're only lining up one cooldown the only case where it would probably be a problem is if somebody really needs that mana ASAP, preventing you from waiting however many seconds. This is more true with higher uptime, if lower strength, effects like Power Torrent/Lightweave than with the Mandala.

I couldn't see if this has been mentioned yet, but I've got it proccing from a singel rejuv today, so it does seem to proc from HoT's.

I'm a weekend raider so haven't had a chance to try out patch 4.0.6 yet. That in mind, a couple of thoughts:

1.) Not sure why people are saying that when you go for the 2004 haste mark you shouldn't downgrade equipment but that it's fine to replace the +40 int gem w/ a +40 haste or +20 int/+20 haste. The difference between ilvl 346 off hand, cloak, and ring is 22 Int. Imo, better to downgrade once and lose 22 int than lose 40 int by removing two red gems and replacing w/ 2 yellow gems or lose 40 int by replacing one red gem w/ 1 pure haste gem. I downgraded my ilvl 359 off-hand for the ilvl 346 Apple-Bent Bough to reach the haste breakpoint and feel that is better than to replace multiple gems and keep the ilvl 359 off hand.

2.) I'll try this again this weekend post patch, but was carrying these two specs with me when raiding:
Standard build w/ 2 points in Furor (no Remove Corruption or NS):
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
2 Points in Furor moved into Genesis:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I've used the Genesis build for all fights except Nef, Cho'gall, and Chim and haven't had mana problems (I'm 12/12 in 10 man and ranked in 9/12 fights this tier for what it's worth).

It seems at least now post-patch, that the mysterious potion is giving some insane numbers to 525 alchemists with a a stone equipped. I just happened to get 38.5k mana and hp from it.

There has been a lot of haste vs mastery discussion lately, and people stating anecdotal evidence as if it means something. Nothing changed in regards to haste between breakpoints.... it still sucks. Look at your healing breakdown, and how much of that healing is effected by haste between breakpoints. LB gets some benefit, and you can get more direct heals off (costing more mana), and get off more non RJ gcd's.
As Slourette demonstrates here: http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t110354-...9/#post1845427
Haste between breakpoints is worth almost half even what crit is... I realize you can choose to value haste between breakpoints higher then crit for non spread-sheet-able reasons, but to value it above mastery is just foolish.

I've been stating the stat priority for quite some time as Int>Spirit>Haste to a major breakpoint(915 or 2004, or the DI equiv)>mastery>Crit/haste

From what I'm seeing, I need to change it to differentiate between 10 and 25.

Several of the people above who posted didn't specify which they are raiding, it makes a huge difference, as I will demonstrate.

In 10 man, during heavy damage(which is when throughput matters the most anyway), you use WG off cd, keep up your LB, and nuke RJ's. LB, and RJ can easily both have 100% benefit from mastery, and you can easily have 7+ people covered between RJ and LB, so even the smart heals, tranq/WG get 70%+ benefit. All told, in 10 man you can easily have 85%+ benefit from mastery, which at 1.46% per point, is pretty damn tasty. So good, I personally doubt very much its worth it to go to 2004 haste for 10 mans.

Now in 25 mans, the WG buffs kinda countered the mastery buff in my opinion. A lot more of my healing is in WG now, and its obviously by far the least effected by mastery. Easily 40-50% of my healing is in WG/Tranq, which will be lucky to have 20-30% benefit from mastery. So the WG haste breakpoint is much more attractive in 25 man. Mastery is still the best stat between breakpoints, but 2004 has become more important.

If you want haste, go all the way to 2004. At 2004 WG gets around 12% hpm, and during NG WG gets another 11% or so, and RJ gets another 20%. 2004 is also in range of the 6th RJ tick for other haste cd's, such as Shard of Woe I believe.

I'm thinking for 10 mans:
INT>Spirit(until you don't need more)>Haste to 915>Mastery>Crit/haste
And 25 mans:
INT>Haste to 2004>Spirit>Mastery>Crit/haste

If its worth losing int to go 2004 in 25 (which it is) it's certainly worth losing some spirit. I wouldn't lose more then 100, maybe 150 max int though, hence I'm keeping INT first because I don't want to see druids gemming all haste. I would cry inside.

As to regen, I recently finally gained a MTT in my raid, but I still end hardmode fights oom having used innervate off cd on myself, and a concentration pot. I would suggest once again, if you don't have regen problems, you are on easier content, or overhealing content. Which are both fine, as long as you have enough regen for your longest/hardest fight, just keep in mind as you progress regen may become important again. The ONLY regen talent change I would recommend is trading furor for genesis. Moonglow/MG/Revitalize are all far too good to lose. If you still have more regen then you need dropping furor, trade in spirit for some throughput stats.

Greentouch - thanks a million for the clarification there. I apologize for not stating earlier, but I'm raiding 25's regularly (9/12 right now). I think that distinction between 10/25 is much larger than anyone - including myself - realized, and it's a huge source of confusion.

My real dilemma was between leaving haste at 915 and going mastery with the rest, or shifting things around and losing a small amount of intellect or regen to hit that 2004 number. The other option was to somewhat ignore the breakpoints and use what the gear gives me, which ends up around 1500 haste. It's extremely clear that for 25-man content, hitting that 2004 mark is optimal, with mastery as the go-to stat afterwards.

As a side note, I'm curious as to which of the two sub-optimal choices end up being better in the case of 25-man raiding while still using the 'standard' raid healing 'rotation.' From what I can tell, the numbers suggest that 915 haste with the rest mastery wins out, but it seems like people are seeing the opposite in practice.

Additionally, I'd like to place the disclaimer that the 'downgrades' I'm putting in place for myself are minimal, and warranted in my own situation and style. In no way am I recommending anyone else downgrade in order to hit the haste breakpoint.

I'd like to add by saying that the recent patches have not significantly altered the stat weights that Greentouch is referencing in his last post. Spirit and SP are still worth approximately half of int in terms of sustained HPS, and mastery is around a third, crit at 1/5, and haste at 1/6.

I am a 10 man raider, so I've been doing extensive calculations for 10 mans, and I've come to the conclusion that trading mastery to haste in order to bring haste from 915 to 2004 is a sustained HPS gain equivalent to that of around 150 int. To put that in terms of gear, I'm finding that in general moving from 346 to 359 is approximately 40 int (in terms of EP values), so downgrading more than a couple of pieces will negate this benefit. For 25 mans, you should be willing to downgrade a few more pieces to reach the extra tick on WG.

However, if you can't reach the breakpoint without giving up too many other stats, you should reforge it off your gear down to 915 for 10 man raiders, and possibly 1587 (extra tick of WG during NG) for the 25 raiders, but only if you are getting abysmal use of mastery (like <30%).

Everything I've mentioned so far is assuming that we are trying to maximize sustained HPS, meaning that even if you are mana limited, you should try to get 2004 haste if it doesn't cost "too much" int & other stats. Although you have less mana to use, the increase in HPM of wild growth should make up for it.

I've quoted the value of 150 int, which I came up with assuming 25% benefit from mastery on WG and around 80% benefit on the rest. Obviously, the less benefit you are getting from mastery, the larger gain of trading that mastery to reach the next breakpoint. I'm guessing that most 25-man raiders should be willing to trade around 200-300 int to get to 2004 haste, definitely closer to 200 if you are getting 50-60% benefit from mastery.