There's no automatic way.. but I use PowerAuras with conditionals and alarms, so I don't have to watch, I just wait for PowerAuras to yell at me.

http://treebarkjacket.com/2011/02/12...-of-innervate/ (skip to the bottom)

Which makes it not that dissimilar from Tide (or Plea). I think you've more than proven your point.

So I was doing a little napkin math and thought I would share the perceived benefit of the 2pcT12 bonus as stated. This isn't exact but will get us close.

For druids at level 85, base mana = 18,635 mp.

Lets look at a 5 min fight, assuming we can use ToL 2x in this span. Also, we need to make an assumption of the number of LBs we can be rolling per ToL, and I'm going conservatively assume 5. I'm also assuming you get 12 LB ticks over 10 sec from haste.

So, 300 sec fight. ToL form lasts 25 sec plus 6 more sec from talents so 31 sec. At a 40% chance of proc, I'll assume 2/5 people receiving LB will trigger procs per sec. But you're getting 12 ticks in 10 sec, or 1.2 ticks per second. Therefore, during ToL, we can assume we'll have 2.4 procs per second. Each proc gives 1% base mana or 186 mp per sec. So during ToL, you would presumably get 2.4 x 186.35 = 447 mp per sec.

Over 31 sec and 2 uses of Tol over a 5 min fight would yield 27,729 mp during ToL.

When not in ToL, you're only rolling 1 stack of LB, so the mana returns would be 1/5 of what was calculated above. So 1/5 of 447 mp/sec = 89 mp/sec while not in ToL. On a 5 min = 300 sec fight, we are in ToL for 62 sec, so that leaves 238 sec not in ToL. 238 sec * 89 mp/sec =21,289 mp.

Adding up the ToL period and non ToL period, you'd get a little over 49,000 mp from the 2 pc bonus over a 5 min fight, or about 817 mp5.

Now lets look at a more realistic 8 min fight where you can use ToL 3 times. I'll skip spelling out the math, but this would equate to approx 76,000 mp, or 792 mp5. Another way to look at this is it would be an extra 2 or 3 innervates over an 8 min fight.

So again, based on rough numbers, it looks like this will end up being around an 800 mp5 bonus. I dont know how much spirit this is equal to (would be interested if someone can easily crunch this number). But overall, looks very strong to me.

Just a quick addition to my above post: at my int level (5,395 unbuffed), 800 mp5 would be equavalent to 1300 spirit.

And I feel 800 is a little conservative. If you make sure NG is up during ToL, you get one or two extra ticks of LB depending on haste, which would be 10-15% more mana during 15 sec of ToL. You'd also get the NG bonus when not in ToL although it wouldn't be as effective in regards to mana returns.

Based on this, I could see this 2pc bonus being close to 850-900 mp5, or around 1,400 spirit. HUGE!!

I'm a bit confused by the 4pc T12. In 4.1 we saw a nerf to the bloom effect of LB which is in part due to PVP and in part due to Blizzard believing that letting LB bloom wasn't a major part of a druid's PVE healing style. So with 4.2, is there some expectation to let LB bloom more for its effect? I'd imagine in a 25m this *may* be useful for healing as there potentially more melee around the tank which is your ideal LB target. However, in a 10m this may not be the case and I'm not sure what advantage there is to switching to a non-tank who may be clumped up with other ranged. Most seem to have the opinion that 3 GCD is too much and certainly 4pc T11 reinforces that opinion. Not sure how the 4pc T12 will play out in a 10m raid, any thoughts?

well, I wonder what is the range on that.
I think they working druid towards Wotlk style, Raid healing and nourish spam (although nourish is much weaker now).
It would be very OP if LB does the same amount of healing before the nerf because 1 LB bloom = 1 Healing Touch.
4PC T12 = 3 Healing Touches~....

I agree, the current patch notes for the 4pc for T12 on the PTR seems pretty underwhelming.
If we are going to be expected to keep our LB stacks up for the mana return granted on the 2pc (and who wouldn't? Plus where all the other classes are getting a big mana return too on the 2pc you'd need to keep it up to at least be competitive) why waste the x3 GCDs to keep reapplying after pops on LB - it would seem to make more sense to just keep the roll going?

I'd initially have three big questions:
1. Would be if this effect is only allowed to happen on one LB stack at a time, or if you'd be able to toss out several LB's in ToL form and let the proc happen on many blooms? We may need to break down if it's better to stack singles or doubles and let them pop. This would raise the question of if the current bloom is only about (25-35K?) so if you were able to get out several heals by tossing out a single stack on multiple targets, maybe smaller heals would result in less overhealing and grant more HPS.
The only way the 4pc would seem really exciting is if you put your LB stacks on several people while in TOL form during a high dmg situation, and then let them all fall off - something like a Halfus fight would be an encounter where in the first few moments of the pull I currently ToL and LB all the tanking targets - if there is a similar fight in Firelands I could see this working out well. If not I predict a resounding "meh" from the druid community.
2. How close is "nearby?" If "nearby" is the same as what WG will jump to, well, that's actually pretty far, and may be more useful to us. 15 yards is a big difference from say, 5 yards. WG can sometimes "appear" to jump farther though because it is smart, which begs the third question...
3. Is this heal "smart?" I'm assuming the heal would be, but we've run into situations before where something that seems obvious doesn't play out in Blizzard design. If it's going to soak onto pets with a fraction of health missing vs a rogue who is at half health, that may not be so great. We could make a colorful argument that anything that is in need of any healing it's still good to heal them, however, in the long run it really seems that smart heals have worked out better for both HPS and raid survivability.

It's early in the PTR to start making deductions, and there could be many fight specific mechanics where certain things work out better than others, but at first glance I really think that the 4pc will be very situational. Your point about 10 mans seems to be a really good one - if you a limited number of targets dipping, it really would seem best to keep rolling. It seems to be an oxymoron to say "it's too early to speculate" but based on past experience with Blizzard encounters the opportunity for the 4pc to be viable in 10 man encounters where AoE heals easily soak up the dmg on smaller raids. I could see us getting the 4pc but only putting it on for a couple fights if they warrant it, otherwise we'd probably be stacking our secondary and tertiary stats (Haste/Mastery) instead.

I would say just at first glance it wouldn't make much sense to let your tank 3xlb fall at any time due to the gcd's to get it stacked back up and the actual probability of the bloom healing someone that needs it.


I'd assume this would be focused primarily at TOL for burst healing. Druids are somewhat in an interesting position with true "Bursty" heals. Blizzard buffed WG healing and lowered the cooldown to compensate, so it (at first glance) appears to be another attempt at bumping our situational burst heals up even further. I'd say this 4pc adds a lot of interesting aspects to your healing decision within TOL and could make for some very interesting encounter design gameplay. You would have to really put a lot of thought behind your timing with TOL, but I think if done properly it could be extremely useful and overpowered in light of other classes burst healing capabilities.

We will have to wait and see if there is an ICD of sorts, the actual range on the 4pc, and how it would play out with Firelands encounter design to be able to justify picking it up or not, so I suppose it will just be the waiting and speculation game until then. I for one am interested to see the direction this 4pc takes us.

It was mentioned to be 2030 haste earlier, but it's obviously not correct. 2031 haste + 5% aura + Shard of Woe use effect don't give the 6th tick. I'm not sure if 2032 is enough, so just gemmed additional 20 haste. Did anyone test this properly?

The TreeCalcs calculation, currently correct to the best of our knowledge, gives the breakpoint as 3967 haste. With the 1935 Shard proc, you'd need 2032 haste on gear.

Tell me if you're able to test the exact 2032 number somehow, I'd be interested to confirm that.

Just a note, on Sinestra, make a priority of keeping RJ and a SM off cd on Calen! Efflo Double dips on his healing received buff. My biggest SM was about 180k, while my biggest Efflo tic was 124k!

Our tank also is keeping the adds close to calen, and the Efflo insta heals the tank and melee when they take damage, it tics for 15-30k a second on players.

Edit: So tonight, on the same fight, my max SM was 224k, and Max efflo tick at 235k. It was probably with a GS up, still not quite sure how a 224k SM gives 235k efflo tics, but I'm not complaining!

Here's hoping it changes before it goes live...

From my rough estimates, it should actually be worth speed stacking LB, and then letting it bloom w/e 2 other ppl need it... which I'm guessing will be usually. 1 LB with its bloom hitting 3 ppl should be more healing then a RJ at a fraction of the mana. A full stacked bloom would be the equivalent of about 3 HT's, and only take 3 gcd's and trivial mana. But that would mean LB takes a third of our gcds. It also means you can't heal your LB target at all if you want it to bloom. It just feels counter to good healing practices. You either don't ever heal your tank... Or you don't ever LB the tank. Or you ignore the 4pc entirely outside of ToL and lose throughput.

As to that, I rarely tranq during ToL anyway. Yes from a "dps" like perspective stacking cd's is great. But every fight I can think of has aoe phases more then once every 3 minutes. I prefer to stagger my cd's. It will make ToL substantially more powerful if unchanged.

Standard operating procedure for ToL will be to to chase WG hots with single LB's and usually let them bloom. Stacking or rolling LB's with insta RGs would only delay the blooms. This would be for more constant damage, for a real burst you need to start way early... GCD capped (say during bloodlust) You could stack up 8 triple stack LB's in 24 seconds, and then they start blooming at 26ish seconds after you started the prep.... (longer since you should be using WG and SM as well) 24 full sized LB blooms in 8 seconds is a lot of burst, but with so much prep behind it its a very clumsy way to go about burst.