[Balance] Cataclysm (Old/4.1) - Page 10

• Hamlet · 01/25/11, 12:41 PM

Chimaeron sounds like a good fight for it--you do stand still for 60-90s at a time. I just can't think of any others, is the problem. Magmaw I guess, you can often go long stretches without moving. Certainly not Omnitron, Maloriak, Atramedes, Dragons (if you go downstairs), Halfus (the fireballs are quite frequent), Council, or Al'akir. Maybe Nef and Cho'gall.

Silveria · 01/25/11, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Chimaeron sounds like a good fight for it--you do stand still for 60-90s at a time. I just can't think of any others, is the problem. Magmaw I guess, you can often go long stretches without moving. Certainly not Omnitron, Maloriak, Atramedes, Dragons (if you go downstairs), Halfus (the fireballs are quite frequent), Council, or Al'akir. Maybe Nef and Cho'gall.

Yeah, definitely. I still have the same gear that I've had for the past two weeks, so I'll try to run a flat comparison of this week's logs to the previous.

Zene · 01/25/11, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

pre-pull routine right after the double-respec to reset Eclipse :/ .

I must be missing something obvious. What is the reason/purpose for this?

Angristt · 01/25/11, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

In my guide I'd said that it's good to macro trinkets with IS. Yesterday I got Heart of Ignacious and tried this, and found that if I open a fight with IS, it activates the trinket for a 0-stack (wasting the cooldown). Anyone have a good solution there?

This is one of the trinkets that I don't believe should be bound to an ability as it is better used 3-5 seconds BEFORE an eclipse so you get the haste effects for both dots but also get the 5 stacks of spell power back up for the dots.

Arythorn · 01/25/11, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Haha, that's not bad. I'll have to stick into my pre-pull routine right after the double-respec to reset Eclipse :/ .

Originally Posted by Zene

I must be missing something obvious. What is the reason/purpose for this?

This is to reset your Eclipse direction to neutral assuming you wiped the prior attempt with it heading in a non-ideal direction. Back during beta, I had lobbied for an ability called Yin/Yang (whatever) to reset Eclipse direction to neutral, 5 second channel, ooc restriction that didn't drain all mana and nobody seemed to get why we would want such a thing. Yet here we are in live all double respec'ing . . . /sigh

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Yesterday I got Heart of Ignacious and tried this, and found that if I open a fight with IS, it activates the trinket for a 0-stack (wasting the cooldown). Anyone have a good solution there?

Synapse Springs and HoI share a 20 second cooldown so my simple solution was to put Synapse line first as so:

/cast Berserking(Racial)
/use 10
/use 14
/cast Insect Swarm

Obviously won't work for everyone but for engineers this is the winner.

Starfox · 01/25/11, 7:05 PM

Originally Posted by Arythorn

Synapse Springs and HoI share a 20 second cooldown so my simple solution was to put Synapse line first as so:

/cast Berserking(Racial)
/use 10
/use 14
/cast Insect Swarm

Obviously won't work for everyone but for engineers this is the winner.

Synapse Springs, HoI (probably all use trinkets, or does it depend on which stat it gives?) and herbalisms Lifeblood all trigger cooldowns on each other

aceofsween · 01/25/11, 7:34 PM

Berserking definitely doesn't trigger a [Figurine - Jeweled Serpent] cooldown, because I use those together on a regular basis. Hazarding a guess, it might simply be for Haste items.

Mews · 01/26/11, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Synapse Springs, HoI (probably all use trinkets, or does it depend on which stat it gives?) and herbalisms Lifeblood all trigger cooldowns on each other

Yes, all On use trinkets share cooldowns. It also triggers High-Powered Bolt Gun, for what it matters.

Racials seem to be the exception; Berzerking and Blood fury. Everything else looks to be linked (Trinkets and profession perks).

art3d · 01/27/11, 1:39 AM

Originally Posted by aceofsween

I've always wondered something. How much value is there in simply delaying these kinds of effects until Eclipse where the added Int/Spellpower is more effective? You could always macro in a modifier (like ALT or Shift) so that you only use the trinkets when you want to.

My tiny bit of advice would be to macro it so that it is NOT used with a modifier. That way you'll have generally higher uptime.

/use [nomod] HoI
/cast IS

So at the pull I press any key with IS and then I just forget about it and use it on cooldown, generally pairing it up with NG. But maybe that's just my playstyle, that I like to think more about what's going on in the fight rather than following my procs and cds.

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Haha, that's not bad. I'll have to stick into my pre-pull routine right after the double-respec to reset Eclipse :/ . The other thing I was considering is if I could stick [nocombat] into the macro, and then if IS is the first spell I cast just as the fight's starting, it won't use it. That's probably not reliable though.

Switching trinkets right before the pull, is a little risky because your first eclipse is closer than 30 seconds away and usually that eclipse is one of the strongest with all the procs activated and aligned nicely. Sticking [nocombat] would be great (one less button to press is always nice), but remember that we also have to use a pre-combat pot and treants. If macroed IS is not the spell that enters whole raid into combat it would fail.

Berthold · 01/27/11, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by aceofsween

I've always wondered something. How much value is there in simply delaying these kinds of effects until Eclipse where the added Int/Spellpower is more effective? You could always macro in a modifier (like ALT or Shift) so that you only use the trinkets when you want to.

Using simcraft with the 372 BiS profile (dots on CD) and an artifical trinket, I can provide the following data:
Trinket: 2000Haste on use, 20s dur, 120s CD
- on CD: 24540 dps
- at the start of eclipse: 24485 dps
- after eclipse: 24541 dps

My interpretation is that it is beneficial to stay longer in eclipse than to do more dps in the eclpse and shortening the time in it by casting faster wrath/starfall.
Trinket: 2000sp on use, 20s dur, 120s CD
- on CD: 24676 dps
- at the start of eclipse: 24635 dps
- after eclipse: 24663 dps

I think these numbers mostly are due to the lower uptimes of the sp buff when restricting it.

This might look a little bit different with other action lists, but I would not expect major differences, so just bind the trinkets to wrath/starfall and have more time for watching fires :-)

Starfox · 01/27/11, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Berthold

Using simcraft with the 372 BiS profile (dots on CD) and an artifical trinket, I can provide the following data:
Trinket: 2000Haste on use, 20s dur, 120s CD
- on CD: 24540 dps
- at the start of eclipse: 24485 dps
- after eclipse: 24541 dps

My interpretation is that it is beneficial to stay longer in eclipse than to do more dps in the eclpse and shortening the time in it by casting faster wrath/starfall.
Trinket: 2000sp on use, 20s dur, 120s CD
- on CD: 24676 dps
- at the start of eclipse: 24635 dps
- after eclipse: 24663 dps

I think these numbers mostly are due to the lower uptimes of the sp buff when restricting it.

This might look a little bit different with other action lists, but I would not expect major differences, so just bind the trinkets to wrath/starfall and have more time for watching fires :-)

Simcraft currently does not model 4T11 right, we don't update the critchance of dots on the fly, so if you cast a dot right after eclipse it will have 100% crit for the whole duration. I already reported the issue.
You basically want to maximise you eclipsed Starsurge count, as you can't do much about number of W/SF needed to get from +100 to -100 and vice versa

Wanderah · 01/27/11, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by art3d

Switching trinkets right before the pull, is a little risky because your first eclipse is closer than 30 seconds away and usually that eclipse is one of the strongest with all the procs activated and aligned nicely.

I don't see why it's risky. Swap the trinket in about 15 seconds before you go into combat. By the time you're in an eclipse and use the trinket you should have a) guaranteed the stacks are up for the SP going into the eclipse and b) still have NG up when you do use the trinket as well as getting the haste benefit for your dots. If you don't swap it early, and use your macro you've now wasted 2 minutes of time where you can't get any benefit from the trinkets Use effect and it's now just a SP trinket for that time period.

• Hamlet · 01/27/11, 3:41 PM

I've resorted to trying to sneak in IS between when the hunter fires his pulling shot and when I actually get into combat

.

In truth I'll have to come up with a separate bind, but I'll have to find a free one, and I just don't like having another thing to watch.

Starfox · 01/28/11, 12:06 AM

Something is wrong with Euphoria
I always had a feeling like the Euphoria effect that gives a 24% to double the Elclipse energy gained if you are not affected by one is not really 24%, but did it off as completely subjective. I know that there are weird things in statistics that nearly anyone gets wrong when asked to guess what is more probable.

Go to target dummy, nuke till eclipse, drop combat, cancel eclipse, nuke to other side, repeat. Bit boring, but who cares :o

315 spells, 184 W + 131 SF

gain	#
-13	101
-14	52
-26	19
-27	12
20	112
40	19

check	%
%-14 over W	33,99%
%-26 over Wx2	38,71%
%Wx2 over W	16,85%
%SFx2 over SF	14,50%
%x2 over ALL	15,87%

Those values are beyond a outside a 2% confidence intervall if we take the 24% chance for granted. The real chance seems to be 16%.

Also, with about 29 cancelled Eclipse I NEVER managed to go with an Euphoria*2 gain into Eclipse.
So those two scenarios did not occur a single time:
Being at 60/80 and getting +40 => Eclipse Solar
Being below -84 and getting -26 or -27 => Eclipse Lunar

29 Eclipse procs, every time I had 2 chance to go into Elipse with a 2x-gain:
24%, 29*2 chances to happens, 0 occurences: 0% (10^-7)
Even with 16% it would be ~0.004%

If you have worldoflogs reports:
Expression Browser

(
 fulltype = SPELL_ENERGIZE and
powerType=8 and
( amount>20 or amount<-16 ) 
) OR (
fulltype>=400 and fulltype<500 and 
(spellid=48518 or spellid=48517) 
)
and sourceName="yourdruidsname"

# If there are more than one balance druid and you want to only check yourself

• Hamlet · 01/28/11, 12:12 AM

This is a nice find if true. You made sure to only include casts from outside Eclipse?