[Feral-Cat] 4.2 Fire Cat funtimes (OLD) - Page 12

Vaccine · 10/18/11, 5:13 AM

Reapply when there is less than 3 seconds left, the Cata dot mechanics means it will extend the next one to allow near 100% uptime. The initial hit happens regardless (as you could tell with 10 seconds on a target dummy).

Corren · 10/21/11, 4:25 PM

In fact, you will refresh your rake differently each time you have to refresh it.

If the rake you're going to refresh is a TF buffed rake, the best thing you can do is wait for the dot to end completely and refresh it as soon as the last tick ticks. But if it's a non TF-buffed, than you can refresh it from 6 seconds remaining.

It's not a great dps gain though, but at some point, you'll climb the dps meter line by line only with that kind of small detail ^^

Reesi · 10/27/11, 8:00 PM

Coming around with a bug report for Shred and Mangle effects. As you all well know, Shred damage gets buffed by bleeds and bleed increasing effects. That list includes Mangle, Trauma, Hemo, Tendon Rip(Hyena), and Stampede(Rhino). Shred damage is working as intended for Mangle and Trauma only. For Hemo, TR and Stampede(assuming) we are not receiving that buff to our damage.

Any feral that has been relying on Sub Rogue or Hunter pet to keep up their bleed debuff has been unintentionally tanking their damage.

There is a Bug Report on the official (US) forums here: Shred not getting the mangle buff - Forums - World of Warcraft

And as for proof, here's a quick snippet of logs:

[12:35:00.336] Reesi casts Shred on Raider's Training Dummy
[12:35:00.336] Reesi Shred Raider's Training Dummy 14410
[12:35:02.177] Reesi Rip Raider's Training Dummy *13045*
[12:35:02.800] Reesi casts Rip on Raider's Training Dummy
[12:35:02.820] Raider's Training Dummy's Rip is refreshed by Reesi
[12:35:03.989] Reesi Rip Raider's Training Dummy 6333
[12:35:05.298] Vexate casts Hemorrhage on Raider's Training Dummy
[12:35:05.298] Vexate Hemorrhage Raider's Training Dummy 4127
[12:35:05.298] Reesi's Mangle fades from Raider's Training Dummy
[12:35:05.298] Raider's Training Dummy afflicted by Hemorrhage from Vexate
[12:35:06.082] Reesi Rip Raider's Training Dummy 6333
[12:35:06.788] Reesi casts Shred on Raider's Training Dummy
[12:35:07.028] Reesi Shred Raider's Training Dummy 11127

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Presumably the Rhino pet debuff is also not working. I only tested with a Hyena and assumed Rhino would be the same. Additionally... Who raids as BM, much less with a Rhino? I also believe the same bug is happening with Glyphed Maul on secondary targets, but I haven't had the chance to test that out yet.

Gotta wonder how long it's been that way?

Garfiëld · 10/28/11, 8:13 AM

My question I guess would be when would a situation arise that depending on a rogue hemo would be the only form of of a bleed (or increasing effect) on the target? I would assume you always have at least rip or rake on a target and in turn are always taking advantage of this talent.

Also if there is a sub rogue in the raid keeping up hemo then they are also keeping up rupture which is a bleed effect between the two of you this should not be an issue.

Reesi · 10/28/11, 9:36 AM

Mangle Effects. Mangle is not a bleed. Hemo debuff is not a bleed without the glyph. I'm talking the 1 minute debuff that increases bleed damage by 30% which increases Shred damage as dictated by its tooltip.

This bug has nothing to do with whether or not the target is bleeding. Hemo overwrites Mangle. Mangle overwrites Hemo. It's worse for the Feral to upkeep his own Mangle than it is for a Sub rogue to push Hemo (I think?). Hemo being on the target and not mangle causes Shred to do less damage. Tendon Rip is easier to control with Mangle, but the Hyena will apply it when Mangle is sub 15 seconds, give or take. Refreshing Mangle that early is a slight DPS loss.

Shadowwaltz · 10/31/11, 3:56 AM

Good sub rogues hemo every 24 seconds to keep up the bleed with the glyph. Since hemo overwrites mangle, this means you don't get the benefit from the talent unless you overwrite hemo with a mangle every time it is applied.

I came to these forums because I was wondering why my DPS on my alt feral was terrible tonight. We had a sub rogue in the raid and I didn't mangle even once because I thought he was doing me a favor. Now I know he wasn't.

Mihir · 10/31/11, 8:57 AM

Originally Posted by Reesi

Gotta wonder how long it's been that way?

I found some 4.0 and 4.1 logs on WoL in which the bug also is apparent, so it's very likely been this way since patch 4.0.1 a year ago.

Which is kind of silly, as i remember testing stuff on a target dummy a year ago with a hunter to see if a hyena would be useful to take to raids; I only looked at bleed damage tho, not at shreds

aldones · 11/02/11, 8:31 PM

Anyone else depressed by kitty performance on the PTR ?
Any comments or analysis yet ?

Vaccine · 11/03/11, 8:49 AM

If you're talking about Simcraft, I think it's broken for Feral. It still lists Glyph of shred in the profile. At the top of the page it says:

Player Druid_Feral_T12H unable to find glyph shred

So I assume due to the Glyph of Shred name change it isn't taking into account Glyph of Shred/Bloodletting.

aldones · 11/03/11, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

If you're talking about Simcraft, I think it's broken for Feral. It still lists Glyph of shred in the profile. At the top of the page it says:

Player Druid_Feral_T12H unable to find glyph shred

So I assume due to the Glyph of Shred name change it isn't taking into account Glyph of Shred/Bloodletting.

I noticed that. But also been seeing some live feeds, and comments from other people on the PTR, and it seems Feral is performing badly all around.

I can't vouch for how good those players are or what their gear is compared to other players, but it looks like we are on the lower end of the dps meters right now.

Vaccine · 11/03/11, 12:36 PM

Glyph of Bloodletting has been added to simcraft and puts us on 36.9k. That isn't too bad really in my opinion considering the top DPS is 38.8k, only 1900 ahead. This tier the gaps something like 4-5k between Ferals and Arcane. If you've evidence I'd love to see it but it seems we've only gotten buffs outside of the AoE nerf and we're closer than ever to the top of the pack. DPS across the board looks a much tighter range which is great news.

aldones · 11/03/11, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

Glyph of Bloodletting has been added to simcraft and puts us on 36.9k. That isn't too bad really in my opinion considering the top DPS is 38.8k, only 1900 ahead. This tier the gaps something like 4-5k between Ferals and Arcane. If you've evidence I'd love to see it but it seems we've only gotten buffs outside of the AoE nerf and we're closer than ever to the top of the pack. DPS across the board looks a much tighter range which is great news.

Sure, we are only 1900 behind. But that means we are 5.04% dps lower. Definitively better, but I would like to see another percentual point increase there before I'm happy.

Rohgraht · 11/03/11, 8:32 PM

Originally Posted by Reesi

Shred damage is working as intended for Mangle and Trauma only. For Hemo, TR and Stampede(assuming) we are not receiving that buff to our damage.

How would this affect our secondary stat prio? Would mastery go up again, while hit, exp and haste go down?

Vaccine · 11/04/11, 4:09 AM

Originally Posted by Rohgraht

How would this affect our secondary stat prio? Would mastery go up again, while hit, exp and haste go down?

It would push mastery up as bleeds become a greater % of your damage, but in all honesty you should not be trying to live with this. Rogues have two other excellent raid specs, get them to respec till it's fixed.

aldones · 11/04/11, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

It would push mastery up as bleeds become a greater % of your damage, but in all honesty you should not be trying to live with this. Rogues have two other excellent raid specs, get them to respec till it's fixed.

I'm not sure it would change our stat priority. Out stat calculations (Rawr, SimC etc) already assume we have mangle up all the time.