Just found this list on MMO-champion, that lists all the spells given and received from the Symbiosis spell. Very interesting read:

Link

The latest revision to the Symbiosis chart shows shadows getting tranquility, and not disc/holy, which probably makes more sense and is less game breaking.

Yeah, I've been watching that thread a bit, but mostly waiting until leveling up is unlocked on the beta so someone can actually get to 87 and test easily. Also since I think they're still shuffling possibilities around internally, might not be able to tell anything too definitive from seeing what datamined spells have mysterious Druid versions.

I kind of hope we don't have a situation where there's one DPS cooldown (e.g. Recklessness) and a bunch of random utility.

Assuming the data mined relations hold, there are two DPS cooldowns for Balance, but only one of those gets one in return. That's going to be a bit annoying if the Mirror Images turn out to be more DPS for us than Recklessness.

I think the trents are expected to be the "Burst" cooldown that you can use on command at any time without a downside. Incarnation is ment to be more of a susstained CD. I'm not exactly sure what the purpose of this is, but I guess it could be helpful on fights where you have burn phase.

I was redoing the WC model and thinking about some things.

Energy. In Lunar and post-Lunar, every spell takes exactly 20 energy. So 10 casts (9 with SotF) regardless of SS procs.
In Solar and post-Solar, you have to get through 200 (180) energy in units of 15 and 20.

SotF first because it's a little simpler. With Wraths alone you take 12 casts. If you get 3 SS in, that comes down to 11 casts (although you'd prefer not to have 2 of the SS in the first 6 spells, as that ends Eclipse one cast early). So, are we going to want to hold an SS cooldown/proc into the beginning of Solar? The benefit of SS in post-Lunar is very small (you save the cast time difference between SS and SF, since they do the same damage/energy). But using one as your first cast of Solar gives a chance to proc 2 more in the next ~15s and shave a cast off.

Without SotF, your first SS in that half-cycle gets you from 14 casts down to 13. Since that's basically guaranteed to happen, the question is whether you can 4 SS's in to get all the way down to 12, but that's less likely.

I'm somewhat concerned (and someone with beta can easily test this) that we will lose dot ticks during eclipse. For example say Moonfire ticks ever 1.8 seconds, and a Starfire lands at 1.7 seconds into that window, thus refreshing the Moonfire. Does the tick counter refresh as well? This would make the time between dot ticks the 1.7 already wasted and the normal 1.8, so 3.5.

Over at the WC thread is what I posted late last night: [Balance] WrathCalcs (a little below it Tecton did some item-related updating).

You can play with how the talents affect things. Just c/p what I wrote on twitter at the time:
Some prelim results: at 0 haste, SotF is giving 3.5% DPS, and Incarnation 2.2%. At 2700 haste (L85), the gap widens considerably--around 3.9% to 1.4%. It shouldn't be surprising that Incarnation falls off with haste. Its benefit is filling your NG and DoT uptime out to 100% while active, and at high haste, those get quite high on their own.

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On refreshes--I've basically been assuming what Erdluf said (should have beta soon, but not yet). For example, the WC model gives you ticks at a constant rate for the duration of Eclipse, and then adds on a "normal" full-duration DoT afterwards. The latter part does breakpoint normally just like Cata DoT's did, but the former part doesn't. Well, technically it does since you might gain or lose a whole tick depending on how long your Eclipse goes, but that washes out due to slight variation in Eclipse duration so I just made it vary continuously. I should probably add a half-tick or something for the extra little bit you get on the final refresh.

If you look into the model, the DoT stuff looks complicated because I put in an option to refresh DoT's again at the end of each post-Eclipse (clipping the Eclipsed DoT in order to get 100% uptime), but that winds up being pretty bad for the moment.

What this all means for breakpoints is that your DoT's will have breakpoints as before (although fewer, since only the NG'ed ones matter). They will probably be less important though since some portion of your DoT uptime isn't affected by them for practical purposes.

I did a pretty long post about Chosen of Elune and how it would affect our dps.
I know that rants are not allowed, though the post is on MMO-C just ignore the parts in caps.
[MoP] Incarnation: Chosen of Elune buffed

If I wasn't mistaken on the spell's cast times during the 30 sec time frame, Chosen of Elune is doing nothing to our dps because it boosts nukes power generation both in and out of eclipse state.
Is that assumption correct ?
Bringing it back to boost power generation only while out of eclipse would kill NG uptime and result the same thing...


PS: I can't remember if external linking is allowed or not in case it's not I will port the whole post here.

Your post does remind me of one thing--does using Incarnation use a GCD (either to hit the cooldown or to shift into the new form)? That will make it worse than we'd thought.

Otherwise, the problem with your post is that it neglects the increased DoT uptime from CoE, which is where more of the damage benefit comes from. The NG benefit is small and, if you use a GCD to get started, worthless anyway.

e: Also best I can tell your "simulation" isn't really, it's just a sort of mockup where you arbitrarily picked proc events. Still though, the concept is basically right--without accounting for added DoT damage, the cooldown doesn't do much of anything.

Erdluf,

I was under the impression that the 10% damage stated in the tooltip wasn't actually a 10% boost for using Incarnation, but rather just the 10% Arcane/Nature damage from Moonkin form carried over to your new CoE form.