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Old 04/13/12, 4:57 PM   #241
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
This is updated with mostly-confirmed Symbiosis info, should be final before long: Mists of Pandaria: Class and Specialization Overview - Wowhead


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Old 04/13/12, 6:10 PM   #242
Lunarius
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Only Mirror Images that actually add to dps it seems, might be good as recklessness was almost too much. Now there's actually a choice involved, and the decision may vary a bit depending on setup. Mage for personal DPS, the healing touch mages get from it will probably mostly go unused though.

For utility there are a lot of great options, blood DKs getting might of ursoc, holy/prot palas getting rebirth and barkskin. Warriors getting stampeding roar or frenzied regen. AMS, MD, Mass Dispell, CoS, Unending Resolve and Intervene may all be situationally good. I must say I'm quite pleased with the direction symbiosis is heading, sure it would be fun to get a massive dps cooldown such a recklessness but with how it currently looks you can really fit it to your group's needs or to a specific encounter.

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Old 04/14/12, 7:04 AM   #243
nephyron
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
Nemesis (EU)
Mirror Images are actually hitting for 140-150 dmg, making them only a threat drop and a disorienting ability for PvP.

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Old 04/14/12, 7:39 AM   #244
Mews
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Re: Heart of the Wild

Just a thought; What's stopping us from using HotW to move our Eclipse bar to the spot we want pre-pull with healing spells?

I hope there's something I'm missing, I really don't want to be doing this every progression pull.

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Old 04/14/12, 8:48 AM   #245
magojo
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
<Ice>
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by Mews View Post
Re: Heart of the Wild

Just a thought; What's stopping us from using HotW to move our Eclipse bar to the spot we want pre-pull with healing spells?

I hope there's something I'm missing, I really don't want to be doing this every progression pull.
Interesting thought, it wouldn't work with some quick wiping though as the cooldown is a whooping 6 minutes. But i think that's the first positive dps aspect i've seen of the level 90 talents though!

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Old 04/16/12, 4:06 AM   #246
Miraclous
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
I don't think it's been noted yet, but typhoon has a new animation and now also knocks back everything in its range instantly, instead of the delay it has by travel on live.

Also from some very limited testing it seems that 1 mushroom only does slightly more damage than the initial damage of 1 moonfire/sunfire (and less when in lunar eclipse) which means than when you're on the move with only 1 target it's better to spam SnF/MF with Lunar Shower than it is to use shrooms.

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Old 04/18/12, 9:58 AM   #247
Lunarius
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
Also from some very limited testing it seems that 1 mushroom only does slightly more damage than the initial damage of 1 moonfire/sunfire (and less when in lunar eclipse) which means than when you're on the move with only 1 target it's better to spam SnF/MF with Lunar Shower than it is to use shrooms.
Even less brain needed to play the spec then, the current rotation feels so easy and spamming only moonfire/sunfire during movement will make it even more dull to play.

Anyway, spent some time on the beta today for the first time in a while and, as expected, they fixed the starsurge bug where you could cast it as the last spell before eclipse and get its damaged boosted by said eclipse. So it is no longer optimal to use starsurge as the last spell before an eclipse, even more subtleties being removed from the specilization (although this was a bit of a no-brainer).

I've already expressed my displeasure about where the moonkin rotation is heading, currently it feels as if blizzard wants moonkins to be one of the easiest specs in the game to play, 4 spells + 2/3 CDs while standing still and they're all used in a very set pattern, one spell while moving. The only thing that seems to be a player's choice is how you want to aoe; multidot, hurricane/astral storm and shrooms (as starfall is a no-brainer).

Hopefully they will make Incarnation good enough to add some complexity to the rotation, as the only things (that I can currently see) that require some skill/knowledge are to use instant cast starsurges with the last spell of an eclipse (as it still seem to work) and maybe CD management of Celestial Alignment.

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Old 04/19/12, 1:52 PM   #248
Ogbar
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Wildhammer
I've been through symbiosis a few times, and I know it's early but it seems like a negative for Bears. Every tanking spec receives a cooldown from it, but the only time a Bear receives a cooldown is when it's cast on a death knight. It seems unbalancing in the same way that trading healing cooldowns or dps cooldowns would be.

Last edited by Ogbar : 04/19/12 at 4:15 PM.

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Old 04/19/12, 4:50 PM   #249
magojo
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
<Ice>
Kazzak (EU)
Feint and Spell reflection could be somewhat useful to though.
Fear Ward could also have it uses i guess, but that is highly situational.

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Old 04/23/12, 12:17 PM   #250
Starfox
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Destromath (EU)
I started converting the druid module in the SimulationCraft's MoP branch, still need to go over every spell/talent implementation. Currently the only feature is that there are no compile errors.

I'll post here again when the module should be ready, or if I need affirmation on mechanics on certain spells.

Hope to get it fully functional by the end the week.

Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy

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Old 04/24/12, 6:55 PM   #251
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Patch going up now, here's a preliminary diff of changes: Mists of Pandaria - Build 15640 - New Items, Abilities, and More - Wowhead News

Only meaningful ones I see for Balance are FoN changes to 1m cooldown (not 1m duration, makes more sense), and Moonfire down to 12 duration. Don't see anything for Resto at a quick glance.


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Old 04/24/12, 7:42 PM   #252
Stommped
Piston Honda
 
Troll Druid
 
Magtheridon
I don't understand the Moonfire change? They said they plan for Moonkins to still have 2 dots, yet this will really hurt our uptime of both Moonfire/Sunfire on the same target. Makes no sense.

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Old 04/24/12, 8:25 PM   #253
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
I don't understand the Moonfire change? They said they plan for Moonkins to still have 2 dots, yet this will really hurt our uptime of both Moonfire/Sunfire on the same target. Makes no sense.
It will hurt our DoT uptime, but I see it as a positive change, honestly. Right now, Moonfire/Sunfire is the tool that Blizzard uses to balance us. It is our strongest spell by far. I'm sure there are scenarios in which Blizzard wants to prevent, say, popping CA, double-dotting everything in the room, and sitting back to own the DPS meters. (Yes, I just made up a scenario, but it's meant to convey the ease and power of multi-dotting for a Moonkin.) By reducing our reliance on Moonfire to carry our DPS, then it gives Blizzard more knobs to turn to balance us, hopefully avoiding the situation where we start out ridiculously strong and wind up on the bench when Heroic Spine comes up. Not to mention the PvP implications, which I'm sure someone who is a better PvPer than I can explain.

Edit: Playing around with the change in Rawr, and it changes the balance of our L75 talent choices, naturally. The Force of Nature change may have been a little too much, as it comes out on top handily in level 85 BIS gear. Incarnation weighs in just behind, with Soul of the Forest bringing up the rear. They're all very close to each other; I would certainly say that one could choose any of them, depending on the situation, without having to feel too bad about failing to min/max. Although Rawr has not yet shifted to level 90 stats or gear yet, so I'll defer to WrathCalcs on that score.

Edit 2: If MMO-C's description of Force of Nature having 15-sec duration/60-sec cooldown is correct, it's still seeming to be kind of anemic.

Last edited by thedopefishlives : 04/24/12 at 11:05 PM.

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Old 04/24/12, 9:50 PM   #254
Erdluf
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Echo Isles
With a 12s duration, your multi-dotting is limited to eight simultaneous targets (before Haste), bringing it more in line with other AoE restrictions (of course multi-dotting even that many is difficult). At around five or six targets, Hurricane will have a higher DPET than MF spam (but costs a ton more mana).

Celestial Alignment (which causes MF to double-dot your targets) will still be stronger in cases where targets live long enough for the DoT to finish.

A shorter DoT also means less worries about casting MF during movement, post-eclipse. You still lose Eclipse-strength ticks (and possibly NG tick rate also), but you since you may be pushing a six-second-remaining duration to twelve-seconds-remaining, you have a decent chance of coming out ahead of the game.

Edit: In addition to Hamlet's list, MMO is showing most damaging spells (but not Starsurge) getting somewhat stronger. It is also showing Wrath cast time reduced to 1.5s, which is going to make the rotation even shorter (38s->34s with no other changes to WrathCalcs)

Last edited by Erdluf : 04/24/12 at 10:15 PM.

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Old 04/24/12, 10:09 PM   #255
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
MMO-Champion has more changes, mostly a numbers pass, but one notable item: Wrath has been reduced back to a 1.5 second base cast time. This hurts the value of haste, since we're back to hammering the global cooldown once our haste level gets high enough, especially in conjunction with Nature's Grace.

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