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Old 05/18/12, 8:29 AM   #301
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
Not sure how I feel about this. If it lets them sensibly put Nature's Grace back to being more controllable, I'm all for it.
Yeah, I was kinda hesitant about that one too. I know people think that our rotation is rather vanilla, but honestly, it's not like any of the caster classes out there has a terribly complicated rotation. Not to mention the fact that a complicated rotation introduces a potential source of error that would make our practical DPS lower than theoretical.

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Old 05/18/12, 2:12 PM   #302
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Didn't see the original context for GC quote, but I imagine it would refer to the beta version of IS (long DoT on one target), rather than the WLK/Cata IS (short DoT that's always maintained along with Moonfire).


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Old 05/18/12, 6:35 PM   #303
 Tecton
Soda Popinski
 
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Troll Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
My initial reaction was to assume the opposite as it's not much of a rotational change to hit a button every minute. Could go either way. Here's the post it was in reply to:

[Druid] Balance Druid Concerns - MMO-Champion BlueTracker


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Old 05/23/12, 2:19 PM   #304
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
I've been out of the loop since Diablo, so not sure if anything was expected, but this seems new: Astral Communion - Spell - World of Warcraft


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Old 05/23/12, 2:28 PM   #305
Zojun
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
GC posted recently detailing how they'd like to give more control over the gain of energy ("We want to introduce some relatively simple, elegant mechanic to give you more control over how much lunar or solar power you have.").

This appears to be it.

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Old 05/23/12, 2:36 PM   #306
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Yeah, I've been saying since Cata beta that Eclipse has to give some player control. It wound up being an issue all through Cata (players wound up using Lunar Shower for that purpose). Earlier on it appeared CA was the solution for MoP--this is somewhat more organic though.

Will have to think about in practice though. Casting Starfire will give around 20 Energy in 2s--this saves 50% of the time getting to Eclipse at the cost of doing 0 DPS for a bit. Obviously they have to design something that doesn't obsolete the normal rotation so you only use it when you need Eclipse for a particular purpose, which is a bit tricky for an ability with no cooldown. This way if you have an AoE/burst phase coming coming you can stop DPS'ing for 5s to get Eclipse 5s sooner, which might not be all that exciting. Will have to see how it feels.


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Old 05/23/12, 8:25 PM   #307
Balancemoon
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Burning Legion (EU)
I largely imagine you would use Astral Communion a lot outside combat, getting you ready etc, and probably for rare moments in combat when you can't damage the boss. However it seems to have no cooldown or anything yet, and until the resalms come up so I can try, I would guess it's not totally finished yet or the tooltip is somewhat incomplete.

Still have Insect Swarm to look forward too also, whatever form it might take.

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Old 05/23/12, 11:35 PM   #308
Stommped
Piston Honda
 
Troll Druid
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Balancemoon View Post
I largely imagine you would use Astral Communion a lot outside combat, getting you ready etc, and probably for rare moments in combat when you can't damage the boss. However it seems to have no cooldown or anything yet, and until the resalms come up so I can try, I would guess it's not totally finished yet or the tooltip is somewhat incomplete.

Still have Insect Swarm to look forward too also, whatever form it might take.
I wouldn't expect anything else being added. GC stated that Insect Swarm was only one of the ideas they were throwing around to add something more to the Moonkin rotation. Instead they decided to go with the Astral Communion route; so don't expect Insect Swarm or anything else to be added on top of AC.

As far as the new spell AC, this definitely will help PvP for Moonkin as one of the biggest problems is being stuck out of Eclipse for too long because of the difficulty of getting chain casts off. Now you'll be able to run behind pillars and channel this spell, or do so immediately after Cycloning your opponent to greatly increase the uptime of your Eclipse in PvP. Will be interesting to see whether or not this channel can be interrupted (if so what school would it lock you out of?).

Not sure what this does for the PvE rotation, which is what GC was concerned about, apart from allowing Moonkin to be exactly where they want in Eclipse before a fight begins, which will be nice. But like Hamlet said this spell cannot simply replace the out of Eclipse rotation so you can only use it during those brief, rare moments where there is nothing to attack in the middle of a fight, but even there you might just happen to enter one of those phases with an Eclipse already active. Member AoE damage is supposed to be equivalent between Lunar and Solar Eclipse, so if you know an AoE phase is coming in ~5seconds, I would imagine it would still be better to just delay transition and continue nuking with the wrong nuke as you wait for the adds; rather than to exit eclipse, and then channel AC for 5 seconds and do no damage before you AoE.

Last edited by Stommped : 05/23/12 at 11:41 PM.

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Old 05/23/12, 11:59 PM   #309
hercdeisel
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
Will be interesting to see whether or not this channel can be interrupted (if so what school would it lock you out of?).
Wowdb and wowhead both have it listed as nature & arcane, just like Starsurge. So, if it can be interrupted, I'd guess the lockout effect would be the same as getting locked out on starsurge.

On an unrelated note: despite GC's promise/threat/statement otherwise, Wild Mushrooms still benefit from solar eclipse. At 60% mastery each of my shrooms were hitting for 6kish in solar eclipse and 4kish otherwise. I suppose this is probably due to the lag between internal builds and beta builds.

Last edited by hercdeisel : 05/24/12 at 12:51 AM.

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Old 05/24/12, 4:15 AM   #310
Balancemoon
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Burning Legion (EU)
I kind of agree, it doesn't really affect moonkin rotation much at all, which is why i still think insect swarm still might return in a future build.

Astral Communion (hope the name changes) doesn't stop our ratation from being far too predictable currently. It does give us more control over our eclipse power, which is one of the two goals they wanted to achieve. The second though remains to be seen.

I have been feeling for a while that now MoP has made the eclipse mechanic a lot smoother, i'ts made it a lot simpler too, in fact too simple, it needs something to add a bit more unpredictability to it and complexity.

The best Idea i could come up with for less predictability was an ability that would randomy proc. (I codename it Equinox)..when it procs it inversts your position and direction on the eclipse bar, and sweetens the deal by causing your next spell cast or maybe 2 spells cast to have a 100/50% extra crit chance.

e.g. say you were at 42 lunar energy going towards a lunar eclipse, Equinox procs you immediately shifted to 42 solar energy moving towards a solar eclipse and your next spell or 2 cast has a crit bonus. What it does is that where you were very predictably spamming wrath to hit a lunar eclipse, you suddenly have to switch the spam to starfire... not affecting the balance of eclipse at all, and allowing your rotation to be less predictable than usual.

This sort of ability would be perfect to add to symbiosis to be honest, which i feel really needs to give each druid spec a passive random proc ability that affects their specs rotation in a fun way. Why? Because symbiosis is the only class ability that will be misisng if you don't have another person with you. Druids lose their 87 ability if they are by themselves soloing, and basically every class gains an extra ability when with the druid except the druid himself. They already have a level 87 ability + symbiosis - so unless symbisois also does something for the druid while not linked, for all its excitement, it is more of an advantage to the other classes than to the druid. This shouldn't be the case.

Introducing Equinox as the balance passive component to symbiosis solves 2 issues neatly. The rotation's simple predictability and the symbiosis disadvnatage. Adding insect swarm later could help solve the rotation simplicity..altho allowing insect swarm to do something that affects spells rather than actually do damage might be a solution

e.g. Insect swarm: Swarms a target sprading to all nearby engaged enemies. During a lunar eclipse, all arcane damage done will do splash damage to affected targets, during a solar eclipse, adiditonal wild mushrooms are pollinated and nature spells have an x% chance to overload causing an instant /no mana duplicate of the original spell that does y% of spells damage. Outside an eclipse the insects will spread your debuff effects and dots to all affected targets at y% of the damage of the original DoT. It should be an active ability, I would rather this sort of thing only be usuable under certain conditions, maybe after an equinox, doesn't have to have a fixed cooldown, but could do.

or it could be an execute like ability.

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Old 05/24/12, 4:32 AM   #311
magojo
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
<Ice>
Kazzak (EU)
With NG now being procced upon reaching Eclipse you'll have to use this rather elegantly if you wanna start a fight in Solar.
Channel this 5-6-ish seconds before the pull, prepot when the channel is over and then start casting.

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Old 05/24/12, 6:44 AM   #312
Erdluf
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Echo Isles
Assuming AC benefits from Haste, then with t14 (15s MF/SuF), SotF and Bloodlust, you should complete your rotation quickly enough to maintain MF/SuF without ever needing to cast them.

Saving those two GCD's, having all nukes benefit from Eclipse, and 100% DoT uptime might be enough to mean that you insert AC into your single-target rotation during bloodlust. I'll try to run numbers later.

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Old 05/24/12, 6:59 AM   #313
nephyron
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
Nemesis (EU)
Does Starsurge refresh both moonfire and sunfire even when you are not in Celestial Alignment ?
I hope they add back Insect Swarm because it is much needed for pvp and it's nice to control our NG activation.

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Old 05/24/12, 10:15 AM   #314
hercdeisel
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by nephyron View Post
Does Starsurge refresh both moonfire and sunfire even when you are not in Celestial Alignment ?
Nope.


Assuming AC benefits from Haste, then with t14 (15s MF/SuF), SotF and Bloodlust, you should complete your rotation quickly enough to maintain MF/SuF without ever needing to cast them.
It benefits from SotF. With SotF, starting at 20 Lunar remaining and cast CA for full duration, you'll end up at Solar Eclipse. Any tick of CA that brings you to the end of an eclipse will proc SotF.

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Old 05/24/12, 1:18 PM   #315
Zojun
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by magojo View Post
With NG now being procced upon reaching Eclipse you'll have to use this rather elegantly if you wanna start a fight in Solar.
Channel this 5-6-ish seconds before the pull, prepot when the channel is over and then start casting.
You can just interrupt the channel so you sit at 80 energy before the pull. Then put up the uneclipsed DoT, enter Eclipse, put up the other, eclipsed, DoT then begin with 100 energy and NG up.

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