Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 29

Starfox · 07/18/12, 7:35 PM

Just noticed something during a test, regarding instant spells at the end of eclipse.
If you queue an instant SS after a W/SF that drops you out of eclipse, that starsurge will still benefit from eclipse. Moon/Sunfire work the same.
That would indicate that there is a slight delay from last cast to when eclipse really updates, but it behaves the other way when you go into eclipse.
If you queue an instant SS after a W/SF that puts you into an eclipse, that starsurge will still benefit from eclipse. Moon/Sunfire work the same.

why would you do that blizzard. :c

copialinex · 07/18/12, 7:55 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Just noticed something during a test, regarding instant spells at the end of eclipse.
If you queue an instant SS after a W/SF that drops you out of eclipse, that starsurge will still benefit from eclipse. Moon/Sunfire work the same.
That would indicate that there is a slight delay from last cast to when eclipse really updates, but it behaves the other way when you go into eclipse.
If you queue an instant SS after a W/SF that puts you into an eclipse, that starsurge will still benefit from eclipse. Moon/Sunfire work the same.

why would you do that blizzard. :c

Do you know if this happens when the spell puts you exactly at 0?
There's a slight dealy while updating energy at Eclipse loss, when the energy is gained, it stops at 0 for a frame or so (in early cata this was noticeable, but several patches ago they modified it and it became so fast you can't see it), then you lose Eclipse and then energy's updated with the remainder. My theory is that they make it stop to make sure you lose Eclipse, but it didn't occur to me that it did have an effect on the damage.

Starfox · 07/18/12, 8:15 PM

Originally Posted by copialinex

Do you know if this happens when the spell puts you exactly at 0?
There's a slight dealy while updating energy at Eclipse loss, when the energy is gained, it stops at 0 for a frame or so (in early cata this was noticeable, but several patches ago they modified it and it became so fast you can't see it), then you lose Eclipse and then energy's updated with the remainder. My theory is that they make it stop to make sure you lose Eclipse, but it didn't occur to me that it did have an effect on the damage.

Yes, the bar always stops for a noticeable amount of time at 0 when you cross it, it never goes from a negative value straight to a positive one, or vice versa

I implemented the following symbiosis spells:
Balance + Mage: mirror_images
Feral + DK: death_coil
Feral + Shaman: feral_spirit
Feral + Warrior: shattering_blow

You have to use symbiosis in the actions.precombat beforehand, e.g.: actions.precombat+=/symbiosis,class=mage

Dontbescared · 07/27/12, 2:05 PM

So, by the looks of things Blizz is changing Moonfire/Sunfire yet again. They will have now duration increased from 12 to 18 seconds and every Starsurge and respectively Starfire and Wrath crit will increase the duration on the respective DoT by 2 seconds. So they put even more emphasis on balance druid stacking crit (Shooting Stars proc based on DoT crits; down to 30% from 40% now too by the way).

And Euphoria's getting changed as well - from 25% chance to "While not in an Eclipse state your Wrath, Starfire, and Starsurge spells generate double the normal amount of Solar or Lunar energy" (100% then). Awesome.

• Hamlet · 07/27/12, 2:09 PM

Here's the data scrape: Mists of Pandaria - Build 15913 - Spell Changes and More - Wowhead News

Not obvious from there, but I'd expect Fae Empowerment to be gone too when the patch comes up.

Yeah, like the idea of keying more things to crit. Crit's always been oddly overcosted, and it probably has to do with the fact that there have been talents keying off of it since vanilla. But that wasn't done consistently and it's often been weak for various classes. If you make it a more consistent property of crit that justifies the item cost, that's a more interesting design (this was also used extensively in D3).

Dontbescared · 07/27/12, 2:30 PM

Yeah, keeping Fae Empowerment in its current shape wouldn't make much sense, would it? Wonder what they'll introduce instead now, if anything.

I don't like the change to Astral Communion generating 25 energy per second instead of 15. It means we won't be able to start a fight one cast away from an Eclipse.

thedopefishlives · 07/27/12, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Here's the data scrape: Mists of Pandaria - Build 15913 - Spell Changes and More - Wowhead News

Not obvious from there, but I'd expect Fae Empowerment to be gone too when the patch comes up.

Yeah, like the idea of keying more things to crit. Crit's always been oddly overcosted, and it probably has to do with the fact that there have been talents keying off of it since vanilla. But that wasn't done consistently and it's often been weak for various classes. If you make it a more consistent property of crit that justifies the item cost, that's a more interesting design (this was also used extensively in D3).

The thing is, Crit was already competing with Mastery for top secondary stat, they were actually pretty close last I checked. I haven't yet reprogrammed Rawr to the new changes, but I certainly will be working on it this weekend. Offhand, it does look to me like Crit is definitely going to take the cake as far as secondary stats are concerned. Perhaps that's a good thing, and I for one welcome our old critchicken overlords.

alucard_pe · 07/27/12, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dontbescared

I don't like the change to Astral Communion generating 25 energy per second instead of 15. It means we won't be able to start a fight one cast away from an Eclipse.

Why not?

"Euphoria: While not in an Eclipse state, your Wrath, Starfire, and Starsurge spells generate double the normal amount of Solar or Lunar energy."

While not in an Eclipse state:

Wrath = from 15 to 30 Lunar Energy
Starfire = from 20 to 40 Solar Energy
Starsurge = from 20 to 40 Solar or Lunar Energy

Dontbescared · 07/27/12, 3:33 PM

Oh well, I guess I need to learn to read what I write myself.

kendro · 07/27/12, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by thedopefishlives

The thing is, Crit was already competing with Mastery for top secondary stat, they were actually pretty close last I checked. I haven't yet reprogrammed Rawr to the new changes, but I certainly will be working on it this weekend. Offhand, it does look to me like Crit is definitely going to take the cake as far as secondary stats are concerned. Perhaps that's a good thing, and I for one welcome our old critchicken overlords.

One problem I see with having crit become such a useful stat for us again is how will that work while we share gear with resto druids and mistweaver monks? Granted it's just the bracers, belts and boots, but I always felt kinda irked when we were stuck with fairly crappy pieces because we shared them with another spec with different stat priorities.

That being said, I am super happy about the double energy gain outside of eclipse, I felt they've needed to make that baseline for the spec for quite some time now.

edit: I think this got missed, it was over on the wowhead news site.
Item - Druid PvP Set Balance 4P Bonus: Your Astral Communion ability can be used while moving.

It's something for balance pvp in the least.

Rodpad · 07/27/12, 5:51 PM

Indeed Fae Empowerment has been removed - http://www.wowdb.com/spells/129631

Miraclous · 07/28/12, 1:44 AM

Tested it all on beta and I can confirm that:
1) Fae Empowerment is gone
2) Sunfire and Moonfire are 2 seperate spells which can be cast at any time. Wraft and SS refresh Sunfire, Starfire and SS refresh Moonfire.
3) Soul of the Forest is useless when going from solar to lunar unless you get 2 starsurges in, 1 which is outside of eclipse.
4) New Euphoria is awesome.

All in all I think these changes are great. It makes us a proper DoT class again and the way the DoTs interact with eachother and eclipse is great. Eclipse cycles are very fast now, around 36 seconds which is nice. NG uptime is close to 100% (obviously), but when it does it definitely might be something we need to look at when deciding the value of each secondary stat.

CausalXXLinkXx · 07/28/12, 2:58 AM

Are you able to put both sunfire and moonfire on the same target? Don't have beta, so I can't test this for myself.

nephyron · 07/28/12, 3:28 AM

Yes, when you choose balance as your specialization you learn Sunfire as a stanalone spell and not a morph of moonfire.

Seeing how much they nerfed the proc rate of Starsurge i bet they expect balance druids to have a lot of crit now

CausalXXLinkXx · 07/28/12, 3:37 AM

Originally Posted by nephyron

Yes, when you choose balance as your specialization you learn Sunfire as a stanalone spell and not a morph of moonfire.

Seeing how much they nerfed the proc rate of Starsurge i bet they expect balance druids to have a lot of crit now

Cool, so druids will get their double dot ability back then? Sunfire instead of insect swarm I assume.