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Old 08/06/12, 12:51 PM   #496
nephyron
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
Nemesis (EU)
Crit=3.39(0.04)
Mastery=3.36(0.04)
Haste=2.78(0.03)

Wow.. is haste really that low ? I feel choppy when I cast a 2.4 sec starfire :S and it really punish my dps if there's a lot of movement involved because it's easier to be caught mid-cast during a movement phase and not being able to finish casting it with that extra 0.4 sec of cast time.

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Old 08/06/12, 1:22 PM   #497
Mathris
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Firetree
Originally Posted by nephyron View Post
Crit=3.39(0.04)
Mastery=3.36(0.04)
Haste=2.78(0.03)

Wow.. is haste really that low ? I feel choppy when I cast a 2.4 sec starfire :S and it really punish my dps if there's a lot of movement involved because it's easier to be caught mid-cast during a movement phase and not being able to finish casting it with that extra 0.4 sec of cast time.
There's a lot of things to take into consideration :

1 - It's a patchwerk style sims so no movement involved
2 - The value of haste went down with the change to euphoria (double energy while eclipse is not active).
3 - Since you're most often in eclipse then the value of mastery go up compared to live
4 - Crit increases the duration of your "eclipsed" dot
5 - It's a DoC build so a lot more damage comes from dots.

I actually think that with the current state on the beta haste will have breakpoints such as resto has on live. We'll probably want to achieve certain haste level in order to gain a tick while NG is up then we just stack mastery/crit.

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Old 08/06/12, 5:38 PM   #498
Mawic
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Madoran
Simulationcraft supports multiple fight styles, including movement. They change the stat values somewhat, but Haste never moves up past Mastery and Crit. This should be the same DoC profile that Starfox used, but I ran only 25k iterations vs. his typical 100k.

Click Here ← Click Here
fight_style=Patchwerk
  Druid_Balance_T14H  Int=5.47(0.07)  Spi=4.25(0.07)  SP=4.46(0.07)  Hit=4.25(0.07)  Crit=3.31(0.07)  Haste=2.71(0.07)  Mastery=3.26(0.07)

fight_style=LightMovement
  raid_event=/movement,players_only=1,first=45,cooldown=85,duration=7,last=360
  Druid_Balance_T14H  Int=5.34(0.06)  Spi=3.98(0.06)  SP=4.30(0.06)  Hit=3.98(0.06)  Crit=3.21(0.06)  Haste=2.54(0.06)  Mastery=3.20(0.06)

fight_style=HeavyMovement
  raid_event=/movement,players_only=1,first=10,cooldown=10,duration=4
  Druid_Balance_T14H  Int=3.89(0.08)  Spi=2.84(0.08)  SP=2.97(0.08)  Hit=2.84(0.08)  Crit=2.77(0.08)  Haste=1.86(0.08)  Mastery=2.00(0.08)

fight_style=HelterSkelter
  raid_event=/casting,cooldown=30,duration=3,first=15
  raid_event+=/movement,cooldown=30,duration=5
  raid_event+=/stun,cooldown=60,duration=2
  raid_event+=/invulnerable,cooldown=120,duration=3
  Druid_Balance_T14H  Int=4.61(0.08)  Spi=3.61(0.08)  SP=3.49(0.08)  Hit=3.61(0.08)  Crit=2.98(0.08)  Haste=2.29(0.08)  Mastery=2.50(0.08)


These are post-breakpoint values, though. Haste will value higher just below the breakpoint, though the extension on crit mechanic smooths the curve quite a bit. The difference is that in Cata, haste remained our best secondary stat regardless of whether we were before/after breakpoints. In Mists, it appears we'll want enough haste to reach a breakpoint and then start favoring crit/mastery.


I don't believe I've seen breakpoints posted yet that include the T14 4pc, so here's a list:
          No 4pc  T14 4pc
11 ticks  0
12 ticks  2466
13 ticks  6402    0
14 ticks  10289   700
15 ticks          3888
16 ticks          7091
17 ticks          10289
The 10289 could be a big breakpoint because it gives us a 1.333 second tick. At that point 2 2-second extensions gives us 3 extra ticks. But it might be a stretch to reach that breakpoint with T14. I'm guessing we'll need T15 or even T16 before this becomes relevant.

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Old 08/06/12, 8:52 PM   #499
Stommped
Piston Honda
 
Troll Druid
 
Magtheridon
The Starfall DoC thing is definitely a bug. If you have Starfall already active when you cast a Healing Touch, the subsequent periodic stars do not remove charges. It only bugs out when you cast Starfall with the DoC Buff already active. I say bugs out because it doesn't even eat the charges, the instant you cast Starfall the DoC buff is just removed before Starfall can even do damage. The same applies for Hurricane/Astral Storm.


Also while testing I saw slightly higher DPS from using the 1 dot technique, and thus only 1 HT per cycle. You have about 10 seconds left on the buff when you reach your next eclipse to apply the other dot which allows one fewer HT per cycle. I imagine this is critical to the success of using only 1 dot, and it might not be feasible in a raid environment with high movement.

Edit: I should add this was with SotF specced and full Malevolent gear, with Crit > Mastery > Haste reforging (2,600 haste).

In order to test for yourself make sure you cast Moonfire before Starfall when you hit Lunar to make sure you are actually getting the 2nd charge. I had a bad habit of mashing Starfall during my last Wrath cast that I had to break because of the bug.
Last edited by Stommped : 08/06/12 at 9:31 PM.

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Old 08/07/12, 1:11 PM   #500
Mathris
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Firetree
Originally Posted by Mawic View Post
The 10289 could be a big breakpoint because it gives us a 1.333 second tick. At that point 2 2-second extensions gives us 3 extra ticks. But it might be a stretch to reach that breakpoint with T14. I'm guessing we'll need T15 or even T16 before this becomes relevant.
I'm not sure if you're talking about the 2 second extension on crit but i think the wording is a little bit confusing. I thought the extension was one tick regardless of haste level base on previous post on this forums. I believe the "2 second" in the tooltip changes with your haste level.

We'll also have to confirm if it's the same behavior with the 4pc T14. Is it a static 4 seconds or a static 2 extra ticks?

One question regarding your haste breakdown, do they include the haste buff from NG?

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Old 08/07/12, 1:14 PM   #501
• Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Extensions in the past have always been by time, but they may have changed it since that's kind of awkward with haste (e.g. Glyph of Starfire). Has anyone actually seen it behaving differently?

To be clear, even extensions "by time" can only add integral numbers of ticks, so it's a bit confusing.

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Old 08/07/12, 5:06 PM   #502
Mawic
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Madoran
Originally Posted by Mathris View Post
One question regarding your haste breakdown, do they include the haste buff from NG?
I was assuming the 5% haste buff and 15% from NG. More specifically:

HstRPerHstPct = 425
A1 (haste rating) = 10289
A2 (tick time) = 1.333 = ROUND(2/((1+A1/(HstRPerHstPct*100))*1.05*1.15),3)
A3 (num ticks) = 14 = CEILING(18/A2-0.5,1)

In the A2 formula, 1.05 is haste buff and 1.15 is Nature's Grace
In the A3 formula, replace 18 w/22 for T14 4pc
Testing whether it's 1 tick/crit or 2 sec/crit could be challenging with low haste. It'll still be possible, but we'll need a lucky string of crits on a single dot.

I've only got enough gear on the PTR to reach the 2466 breakpoint, which gives a 1.565 second tick. You would need four crits on a single dot to test at this haste level. With four crits, do you get four extra ticks or five? (1.565*5 = 7.825 < 8) I'll give this a try tonight and see if I get lucky.

If anyone has at least 6402 haste, they'll have a slightly easier time. They would only need three crits on a single dot to test whether they get three extra ticks or four. (1.439*4 = 5.756 < 6)

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Old 08/07/12, 5:27 PM   #503
Mathris
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Firetree
If you look at the tooltip the duration for the extension definitly change base on your haste level. I just tested it with and without NG.

Now is it only a tooltip error ? I can't confirm because as you said it would be hard to test on the beta with our gear

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Old 08/07/12, 7:59 PM   #504
Starfox
King Hippo
 
Starfox's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Destromath (EU)
  • Eclipse: -5% base bonus (20% => 15%)
  • Moonfire, Sunfire: -10% dmg, ticks reduced from 9 to 7
  • Starfire, Wrath: -13% dmg
SimulationCraft 504-3 for World of Warcraft 5.0.4 Live (build level 15929)

Simulating... ( iterations=49999, max_time=450, vary_combat_length=0.20, optimal_raid=1, fight_style=Patchwerk )

 * Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta!
 * Not All classes are yet supported.
 * Some class models still need tweaking.
 * Some class action lists need tweaking.
 * Some class BiS gear setups need tweaking.
 * Some trinkets not yet implemented.
 * Constructive feedback regarding our output will shorten the Beta phase dramatically.
 * Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta!

DPS Ranking:
 117964 100.0%  Raid
 117964  100.0%  Druid_Balance_T14H

HPS Ranking:
      0 100.0%  Raid

Player: Druid_Balance_T14H troll druid balance 90
  DPS: 117963.5  DPS-Error=32.5/0.0% HPS: 0.0 HPS-Error=0.0/0.0% DPS-Range=14724/12.5%  DPS-Convergence=70.7%  DPR=23.9  RPS-Out=4928.9 RPS-In=4851.8  Resource=(mana) Waiting=0.0 ApM=44.2
  Talents: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-specification#Ua!.0.1.1
  Core Stats:    strength=194|185(80)  agility=186|177(80)  stamina=22510|20464(20345)  intellect=20271|18006(17841)  spirit=4836|4836(4647)  mastery=15.83|10.83(1697)  health=461543|432899  mana=300000|300000
  Spell Stats:   power=30984|25903(7907)  hit=14.98%|14.98%(445)  crit=21.20%|15.31%(3812)  haste=24.23%|18.31%(7783)  mp5=7500|7500(0)
  Attack Stats:  power=499|445(0)  hit=14.98%|14.98%(445)  crit=18.98%|13.97%(3812)  expertise=0.00%/0.00%|0.00%/0.00%(0)  haste=18.31%|18.31%(7783)  speed=30.14%|18.31%(7783)
  Defense Stats: armor=18619|18619(18619) miss=0.00%|0.00%  dodge=0.20%|0.19%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=0.00%|0.00%
  Glyphs: moonbeast
  Priorities (actions.precombat):
    flask,type=warm_sun/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
    mark_of_the_wild,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
    healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
    moonkin_form/snapshot_stats/jade_serpent_potion
  Priorities:
    jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=40|buff.celestial_alignment.up
    starfall,if=!buff.starfall.up/treants,if=talent.force_of_nature.enabled/berserking
    wild_mushroom_detonate,moving=0,if=buff.wild_mushroom.stack>0&buff.solar_eclipse.up
    natures_swiftness,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&talent.natures_swiftness.enabled
    healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
    incarnation,if=talent.incarnation.enabled&(buff.lunar_eclipse.up|buff.solar_eclipse.up)
    celestial_alignment,if=((eclipse_dir=-1&eclipse<=0)|(eclipse_dir=1&eclipse>=0))&buff.chosen_of_elune.up
    natures_vigil,if=((talent.incarnation.enabled&buff.chosen_of_elune.up)|(!talent.incarnation.enabled&buff.celestial_alignment.up))&talent.natures_vigil.enabled
    moonfire,if=buff.celestial_alignment.up&(!dot.sunfire.ticking|!dot.moonfire.ticking)
    sunfire,if=buff.solar_eclipse.up&!buff.celestial_alignment.up&!dot.sunfire.ticking
    moonfire,if=buff.lunar_eclipse.up&!dot.moonfire.ticking
    starsurge,if=buff.solar_eclipse.up|buff.lunar_eclipse.up
    starsurge,if=(eclipse_dir=1&eclipse<30)|(eclipse_dir=-1&eclipse>-30)
    starfire,if=buff.celestial_alignment.up&cast_time<buff.celestial_alignment.remains
    wrath,if=buff.celestial_alignment.up&cast_time<buff.celestial_alignment.remains
    starfire,if=eclipse_dir=1|(eclipse_dir=0&eclipse>0)
    wrath,if=eclipse_dir=-1|(eclipse_dir=0&eclipse<=0)
    moonfire,moving=1,if=!dot.sunfire.ticking
    sunfire,moving=1,if=!dot.moonfire.ticking
    wild_mushroom,moving=1,if=buff.wild_mushroom.stack<5
    starsurge,moving=1,if=buff.shooting_stars.react
    moonfire,moving=1,if=buff.lunar_eclipse.up/sunfire,moving=1
  Actions:
    berserking              Count=  3.0|180.95sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR=  0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    healing_touch           Count= 18.2| 26.14sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR=  0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    moonfire                Count= 15.9| 29.06sec  DPE=632489|19%  DPET=591331  DPR=125.5  pDPS=22234  Miss=0.02%  Hit=33921|29449|69313  Crit=70713|60666|131334|19.1%  TickCount=238  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=32811|28190|46228  CritTick=67941|58071|95229|18.9%  UpTime=67.8%
    natures_swiftness       Count=  6.5| 75.68sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR=  0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    starfall                Count= 16.9| 28.70sec  DPE=292656| 9%  DPET=273704  DPR= 15.0  pDPS=10976  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=167  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=24612|14140|35686  CritTick=51095|29128|73513|19.0%  UpTime=36.9%
    starfire                Count= 96.2|  4.58sec  DPE=123546|22%  DPET= 69126  DPR= 20.0  pDPS=26321  Miss=0.02%  Hit=102588|68479|172204  Crit=213402|141066|354741|18.9%
    starsurge               Count= 46.9|  9.54sec  DPE=190853|17%  DPET=169314  DPR= 30.9  pDPS=19867  Miss=0.03%  Hit=159118|92233|232227  Crit=330018|190001|478388|18.9%
    sunfire                 Count= 15.3| 29.40sec  DPE=643086|19%  DPET=733540  DPR=119.1  pDPS=21866  Miss=0.02%  Hit=34056|29449|47802  Crit=70694|60666|98473|18.8%  TickCount=234  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=32897|28190|46228  CritTick=67903|58071|95229|18.8%  UpTime=67.2%
    wild_mushroom_detonate  Count=  1.0|  1.#Rsec  DPE=198815| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR=  0.0  pDPS=  447  Miss=0.04%  Hit=161669|142261|163298  Crit=333140|308347|336393|21.7%
    wrath                   Count=109.7|  4.07sec  DPE= 66989|14%  DPET= 48976  DPR= 13.3  pDPS=16253  Miss=0.02%  Hit=56031|39849|92176  Crit=115467|82090|189883|18.7%
  Constant Buffs: attack_haste/attack_power_multiplier/critical_strike/honor_among_thieves/mastery/moonkin_form/spell_haste
  Constant Buffs: spell_power_multiplier/stamina/str_agi_int
  Dynamic Buffs:
    berserking               : start= 3.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=180.9 trigger=180.9 uptime= 7%  benefit= 7%
    bloodlust                : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime= 9%  benefit=11%
    celestial_alignment      : start= 2.8 refresh=  0.0 interval=186.6 trigger=186.6 uptime= 9%
    chosen_of_elune          : start= 3.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=181.5 trigger=181.5 uptime=19%  benefit=24%
    dream_of_cenarius_damage : start=18.2 refresh=  0.0 interval= 25.5 trigger= 26.1 uptime=92%
    essence_of_terror        : start= 4.2 refresh=  0.0 interval=124.1 trigger=124.1 uptime=18%
    jade_serpent_potion      : start= 2.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=203.7 trigger=  0.0 uptime=10%
    jade_spirit              : start= 8.6 refresh=  0.0 interval= 55.3 trigger= 55.3 uptime=22%  benefit=23%
    lunar_eclipse            : start=14.9 refresh=  0.0 interval= 31.0 trigger= 31.0 uptime=41%  benefit=86%
    lunar_shower             : start=28.4 refresh=  0.0 interval= 16.0 trigger= 16.0 uptime=19%  benefit= 0%
    natures_grace            : start=21.4 refresh=  7.1 interval= 21.3 trigger= 16.0 uptime=89%
    natures_swiftness        : start= 6.5 refresh=  0.0 interval= 75.7 trigger= 75.7 uptime=21%  benefit=36%
    relic_of_yulon           : start= 8.3 refresh=  0.0 interval= 57.8 trigger= 57.8 uptime=27%
    shooting_stars           : start=38.0 refresh=  6.5 interval= 11.6 trigger=  9.9 uptime=18%  benefit=80%
    solar_eclipse            : start=14.5 refresh=  0.0 interval= 31.2 trigger= 31.2 uptime=38%  benefit=71%
    starfall                 : start=16.9 refresh=  0.0 interval= 27.6 trigger= 28.7 uptime=37%
  Gains:
    672441.9 : mp5_regen (mana)
    1521777.2 : eclipse   (mana)  (overflow=49.1%)


 *** Targets *** 


Target: Fluffy_Pillow humanoid enemy unknown 93
  DPS: 0.0  DPS-Error=0.0/0.0% HPS: 0.0 HPS-Error=0.0/0.0% DPS-Range=0/0.0%  DPS-Convergence=0.0%
  Core Stats:    strength=0|0(0)  agility=0|0(0)  stamina=0|0(0)  intellect=0|0(0)  spirit=0|0(0)  mastery=8.00|8.00(0)  health=0|63645440  mana=0|0
  Spell Stats:   power=0|0(0)  hit=0.00%|0.00%(0)  crit=-1.#J%|-1.#J%(0)  haste=0.00%|0.00%(0)  mp5=0|0(0)
  Attack Stats:  power=0|0(0)  hit=0.00%|0.00%(0)  crit=-1.#J%|-1.#J%(0)  expertise=0.00%/0.00%|0.00%/0.00%(0)  haste=0.00%|0.00%(0)  speed=0.00%|0.00%(0)
  Defense Stats: armor=24835|24835(0) miss=0.00%|0.00%  dodge=0.00%|0.00%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=5.00%|5.00%(0) crit=0.00%|0.00%
  Priorities (actions.precombat):
    snapshot_stats
  Priorities:

  Actions:
  Constant Buffs: attack_haste/attack_power_multiplier/bleeding/critical_strike/honor_among_thieves/magic_vulnerability
  Constant Buffs: mastery/mortal_wounds/physical_vulnerability/ranged_vulnerability/slowed_casting/spell_haste
  Constant Buffs: spell_power_multiplier/stamina/str_agi_int/weakened_armor/weakened_blows
  Dynamic Buffs:
    Health Decade (0 - 10)   : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=11%
    Health Decade (10 - 20)  : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=11%
    Health Decade (20 - 30)  : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=11%
    Health Decade (30 - 40)  : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=11%
    Health Decade (40 - 50)  : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=10%
    Health Decade (50 - 60)  : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=10%
    Health Decade (60 - 70)  : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=11%
    Health Decade (70 - 80)  : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=12%
    Health Decade (80 - 90)  : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime= 8%
    Health Decade (90 - 100) : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime= 5%

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 205041147
  MaxEventQueue = 29
  TargetHealth  = 63645440
  SimSeconds    = 22611498
  CpuSeconds    = 114.458
  SpeedUp       = 197553

RNG global: Actual ( Confidence Interval ): Roll=0.500077( [ 0.499624, 0.500376] ) Range=nan Gauss=-0.000044( [ -0.000458, 0.000458] )
Optimized: casting 1 HT per eclipse, casting the eclipse dot immediately and the non-eclipsed one once the buffed version drops
Player: Druid_Balance_T14Hnew2 troll druid balance 90
  DPS: 124906.4  DPS-Error=58.7/0.0% HPS: 0.0 HPS-Error=0.0/0.0% DPS-Range=10062/8.1%  DPS-Convergence=70.7%  DPR=24.1  RPS-Out=5177.8 RPS-In=5095.2  Resource=(mana) Waiting=0.0 ApM=45.4
  Talents: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-specification#Ua!.0.1.1
  Core Stats:    strength=194|185(80)  agility=186|177(80)  stamina=22510|20464(20345)  intellect=20271|18006(17841)  spirit=4836|4836(4647)  mastery=15.83|10.83(1697)  health=461543|432899  mana=300000|300000
  Spell Stats:   power=30984|25903(7907)  hit=14.98%|14.98%(445)  crit=21.20%|15.31%(3812)  haste=24.23%|18.31%(7783)  mp5=7500|7500(0)
  Attack Stats:  power=499|445(0)  hit=14.98%|14.98%(445)  crit=18.98%|13.97%(3812)  expertise=0.00%/0.00%|0.00%/0.00%(0)  haste=18.31%|18.31%(7783)  speed=30.14%|18.31%(7783)
  Defense Stats: armor=18619|18619(18619) miss=0.00%|0.00%  dodge=0.20%|0.19%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=0.00%|0.00%
  Glyphs: moonbeast
  Priorities (actions.precombat):
    flask,type=warm_sun/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
    mark_of_the_wild,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
    healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
    moonkin_form/snapshot_stats/jade_serpent_potion
  Priorities:
    jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=40|buff.celestial_alignment.up
    starfall,if=!buff.starfall.up/treants,if=talent.force_of_nature.enabled/berserking
    wild_mushroom_detonate,moving=0,if=buff.wild_mushroom.stack>0&buff.solar_eclipse.up
    natures_swiftness,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&talent.natures_swiftness.enabled
    healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
    incarnation,if=talent.incarnation.enabled&(buff.lunar_eclipse.up|buff.solar_eclipse.up)
    celestial_alignment,if=((eclipse_dir=-1&eclipse<=0)|(eclipse_dir=1&eclipse>=0))&buff.chosen_of_elune.up
    natures_vigil,if=((talent.incarnation.enabled&buff.chosen_of_elune.up)|(!talent.incarnation.enabled&buff.celestial_alignment.up))&talent.natures_vigil.enabled
    moonfire,if=buff.lunar_eclipse.up&(dot.moonfire.remains<(buff.natures_grace.remains+2))
    sunfire,if=buff.solar_eclipse.up&!buff.celestial_alignment.up&(dot.sunfire.remains<(buff.natures_grace.remains+2))
    moonfire,if=!dot.moonfire.ticking&!buff.celestial_alignment.up&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up
    sunfire,if=!dot.sunfire.ticking&!buff.celestial_alignment.up&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up
    starsurge,if=buff.solar_eclipse.up|buff.lunar_eclipse.up
    starfire,if=buff.celestial_alignment.up&cast_time<buff.celestial_alignment.remains
    wrath,if=buff.celestial_alignment.up&cast_time<buff.celestial_alignment.remains
    starfire,if=eclipse_dir=1|(eclipse_dir=0&eclipse>0)
    wrath,if=eclipse_dir=-1|(eclipse_dir=0&eclipse<=0)
    moonfire,moving=1,if=!dot.sunfire.ticking
    sunfire,moving=1,if=!dot.moonfire.ticking
    wild_mushroom,moving=1,if=buff.wild_mushroom.stack<5
    starsurge,moving=1,if=buff.shooting_stars.react
    moonfire,moving=1,if=buff.lunar_eclipse.up/sunfire,moving=1
  Actions:
    berserking              Count=  3.0|180.90sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR= 0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    healing_touch           Count= 26.6| 17.90sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR= 0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    moonfire                Count= 27.2| 16.90sec  DPE=462239|22%  DPET=431957  DPR=95.2  pDPS=27793  Miss=0.03%  Hit=29207|19052|47802  Crit=60888|39247|98473|18.9%  TickCount=339  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=28445|18237|46228  CritTick=58846|37568|95229|18.9%  UpTime=97.8%
    natures_swiftness       Count=  7.0| 69.12sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR= 0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    starfall                Count= 15.8| 30.77sec  DPE=294915| 8%  DPET=275051  DPR=15.1  pDPS=10356  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=156  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=24801|14140|35686  CritTick=51363|29128|73513|19.1%  UpTime=34.6%
    starfire                Count= 84.9|  5.14sec  DPE=123448|19%  DPET= 68601  DPR=20.0  pDPS=23205  Miss=0.02%  Hit=102626|68479|172204  Crit=213057|141066|354741|18.9%
    starsurge               Count= 51.3|  8.64sec  DPE=190777|17%  DPET=174329  DPR=30.9  pDPS=21675  Miss=0.02%  Hit=159102|92233|232227  Crit=329848|190001|478388|18.9%
    sunfire                 Count= 26.0| 17.60sec  DPE=479699|22%  DPET=500369  DPR=93.3  pDPS=27605  Miss=0.03%  Hit=29278|19052|61783  Crit=60520|39247|114229|18.8%  TickCount=338  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=28514|18237|46228  CritTick=58691|37568|95229|18.9%  UpTime=97.0%
    wild_mushroom_detonate  Count=  1.0|  1.#Rsec  DPE=181860| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR= 0.0  pDPS=  409  Miss=0.03%  Hit=150075|142261|163298  Crit=310816|293057|336393|19.8%
    wrath                   Count= 95.5|  4.64sec  DPE= 65644|11%  DPET= 48200  DPR=13.0  pDPS=13862  Miss=0.02%  Hit=54890|39849|92176  Crit=113068|82090|189883|18.8%
  Constant Buffs: attack_haste/attack_power_multiplier/critical_strike/honor_among_thieves/mastery/moonkin_form/spell_haste
  Constant Buffs: spell_power_multiplier/stamina/str_agi_int
  Dynamic Buffs:
    berserking               : start= 3.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=180.9 trigger=180.9 uptime= 7%  benefit= 8%
    bloodlust                : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime= 9%  benefit=11%
    celestial_alignment      : start= 2.7 refresh=  0.0 interval=189.4 trigger=189.4 uptime= 9%
    chosen_of_elune          : start= 2.9 refresh=  0.0 interval=181.9 trigger=181.9 uptime=19%  benefit=26%
    dream_of_cenarius_damage : start=26.6 refresh=  0.0 interval= 17.3 trigger= 17.9 uptime=87%
    essence_of_terror        : start= 4.2 refresh=  0.0 interval=122.8 trigger=122.8 uptime=18%
    jade_serpent_potion      : start= 2.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=207.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=10%
    jade_spirit              : start= 8.8 refresh=  0.0 interval= 54.2 trigger= 54.2 uptime=23%  benefit=23%
    lunar_eclipse            : start=12.9 refresh=  0.0 interval= 35.8 trigger= 35.8 uptime=41%  benefit=81%
    lunar_shower             : start=43.0 refresh=  7.5 interval= 10.6 trigger=  9.0 uptime=31%  benefit=15%
    natures_grace            : start=23.6 refresh=  2.8 interval= 19.2 trigger= 17.2 uptime=84%
    natures_swiftness        : start= 7.0 refresh=  0.0 interval= 69.1 trigger= 69.1 uptime=13%  benefit=27%
    relic_of_yulon           : start= 8.3 refresh=  0.0 interval= 57.3 trigger= 57.3 uptime=27%
    shooting_stars           : start=47.4 refresh= 16.6 interval=  9.4 trigger=  7.0 uptime=29%  benefit=91%
    solar_eclipse            : start=14.2 refresh=  0.0 interval= 31.6 trigger= 31.6 uptime=38%  benefit=61%
    starfall                 : start=15.8 refresh=  0.0 interval= 29.4 trigger= 30.8 uptime=35%
  Gains:
    674501.7 : mp5_regen (mana)
    1629682.3 : eclipse   (mana)  (overflow=41.2%)
Last edited by Starfox : 08/07/12 at 9:04 PM.
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy

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Old 08/07/12, 8:05 PM   #505
Fleuria
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Knew it was gonna get a fairly heavy nerf 140k sim 25k+ higher than next, still probrably be the highest

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Old 08/07/12, 8:09 PM   #506
Zantaz
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
So, will a reduced number of ticks (and thus need to refresh more often) lend itself more to the play-style of empowering Moonfire / Sunfire at the beginning and end of Eclipse if we have DoC, rather than trying to keep both empowered with the buff?

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Old 08/07/12, 8:27 PM   #507
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Fleuria View Post
Knew it was gonna get a fairly heavy nerf 140k sim 25k+ higher than next, still probrably be the highest
Yeah, but if you ask me, that's because DoC is broken OP right now. If they'd just nerfed DoC, those numbers would've come down. As it stands, there is literally no choice between DoC, NV, and HotW. I'm not even sure if removing 2 ticks will accomplish that effect.

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Old 08/07/12, 10:02 PM   #508
Eluial
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Mathris View Post
I'm not sure if you're talking about the 2 second extension on crit but i think the wording is a little bit confusing. I thought the extension was one tick regardless of haste level base on previous post on this forums. I believe the "2 second" in the tooltip changes with your haste level.

We'll also have to confirm if it's the same behavior with the 4pc T14. Is it a static 4 seconds or a static 2 extra ticks?

One question regarding your haste breakdown, do they include the haste buff from NG?
Answered in the Class Balance thread:

The Moonkin DoT refresh mechanic adds 1 tick, regardless of haste. The 4T14 bonus adds 4sec to the base duration of the DoTs, so all haste calculations are done as if it started at 18sec.
GC also warns of a Dream of Cenarius nerf incoming.

Beta Class Balance Analysis - Forums - World of Warcraft

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Old 08/07/12, 10:30 PM   #509
Stommped
Piston Honda
 
Troll Druid
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Starfox View Post
Optimized: casting 1 HT per eclipse, casting the eclipse dot immediately and the non-eclipsed one once the buffed version drops
Player: Druid_Balance_T14Hnew2 troll druid balance 90
  DPS: 124906.4  DPS-Error=58.7/0.0% HPS: 0.0 HPS-Error=0.0/0.0% DPS-Range=10062/8.1%  DPS-Convergence=70.7%  DPR=24.1  RPS-Out=5177.8 RPS-In=5095.2  Resource=(mana) Waiting=0.0 ApM=45.4
  Talents: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-specification#Ua!.0.1.1
  Core Stats:    strength=194|185(80)  agility=186|177(80)  stamina=22510|20464(20345)  intellect=20271|18006(17841)  spirit=4836|4836(4647)  mastery=15.83|10.83(1697)  health=461543|432899  mana=300000|300000
  Spell Stats:   power=30984|25903(7907)  hit=14.98%|14.98%(445)  crit=21.20%|15.31%(3812)  haste=24.23%|18.31%(7783)  mp5=7500|7500(0)
  Attack Stats:  power=499|445(0)  hit=14.98%|14.98%(445)  crit=18.98%|13.97%(3812)  expertise=0.00%/0.00%|0.00%/0.00%(0)  haste=18.31%|18.31%(7783)  speed=30.14%|18.31%(7783)
  Defense Stats: armor=18619|18619(18619) miss=0.00%|0.00%  dodge=0.20%|0.19%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=0.00%|0.00%
  Glyphs: moonbeast
  Priorities (actions.precombat):
    flask,type=warm_sun/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
    mark_of_the_wild,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
    healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
    moonkin_form/snapshot_stats/jade_serpent_potion
  Priorities:
    jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=40|buff.celestial_alignment.up
    starfall,if=!buff.starfall.up/treants,if=talent.force_of_nature.enabled/berserking
    wild_mushroom_detonate,moving=0,if=buff.wild_mushroom.stack>0&buff.solar_eclipse.up
    natures_swiftness,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&talent.natures_swiftness.enabled
    healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
    incarnation,if=talent.incarnation.enabled&(buff.lunar_eclipse.up|buff.solar_eclipse.up)
    celestial_alignment,if=((eclipse_dir=-1&eclipse<=0)|(eclipse_dir=1&eclipse>=0))&buff.chosen_of_elune.up
    natures_vigil,if=((talent.incarnation.enabled&buff.chosen_of_elune.up)|(!talent.incarnation.enabled&buff.celestial_alignment.up))&talent.natures_vigil.enabled
    moonfire,if=buff.lunar_eclipse.up&(dot.moonfire.remains<(buff.natures_grace.remains+2))
    sunfire,if=buff.solar_eclipse.up&!buff.celestial_alignment.up&(dot.sunfire.remains<(buff.natures_grace.remains+2))
    moonfire,if=!dot.moonfire.ticking&!buff.celestial_alignment.up&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up
    sunfire,if=!dot.sunfire.ticking&!buff.celestial_alignment.up&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up
    starsurge,if=buff.solar_eclipse.up|buff.lunar_eclipse.up
    starfire,if=buff.celestial_alignment.up&cast_time<buff.celestial_alignment.remains
    wrath,if=buff.celestial_alignment.up&cast_time<buff.celestial_alignment.remains
    starfire,if=eclipse_dir=1|(eclipse_dir=0&eclipse>0)
    wrath,if=eclipse_dir=-1|(eclipse_dir=0&eclipse<=0)
    moonfire,moving=1,if=!dot.sunfire.ticking
    sunfire,moving=1,if=!dot.moonfire.ticking
    wild_mushroom,moving=1,if=buff.wild_mushroom.stack<5
    starsurge,moving=1,if=buff.shooting_stars.react
    moonfire,moving=1,if=buff.lunar_eclipse.up/sunfire,moving=1
  Actions:
    berserking              Count=  3.0|180.90sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR= 0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    healing_touch           Count= 26.6| 17.90sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR= 0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    moonfire                Count= 27.2| 16.90sec  DPE=462239|22%  DPET=431957  DPR=95.2  pDPS=27793  Miss=0.03%  Hit=29207|19052|47802  Crit=60888|39247|98473|18.9%  TickCount=339  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=28445|18237|46228  CritTick=58846|37568|95229|18.9%  UpTime=97.8%
    natures_swiftness       Count=  7.0| 69.12sec  DPE=     0| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR= 0.0  pDPS=    0  Miss=0.00%
    starfall                Count= 15.8| 30.77sec  DPE=294915| 8%  DPET=275051  DPR=15.1  pDPS=10356  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=156  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=24801|14140|35686  CritTick=51363|29128|73513|19.1%  UpTime=34.6%
    starfire                Count= 84.9|  5.14sec  DPE=123448|19%  DPET= 68601  DPR=20.0  pDPS=23205  Miss=0.02%  Hit=102626|68479|172204  Crit=213057|141066|354741|18.9%
    starsurge               Count= 51.3|  8.64sec  DPE=190777|17%  DPET=174329  DPR=30.9  pDPS=21675  Miss=0.02%  Hit=159102|92233|232227  Crit=329848|190001|478388|18.9%
    sunfire                 Count= 26.0| 17.60sec  DPE=479699|22%  DPET=500369  DPR=93.3  pDPS=27605  Miss=0.03%  Hit=29278|19052|61783  Crit=60520|39247|114229|18.8%  TickCount=338  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=28514|18237|46228  CritTick=58691|37568|95229|18.9%  UpTime=97.0%
    wild_mushroom_detonate  Count=  1.0|  1.#Rsec  DPE=181860| 0%  DPET=     0  DPR= 0.0  pDPS=  409  Miss=0.03%  Hit=150075|142261|163298  Crit=310816|293057|336393|19.8%
    wrath                   Count= 95.5|  4.64sec  DPE= 65644|11%  DPET= 48200  DPR=13.0  pDPS=13862  Miss=0.02%  Hit=54890|39849|92176  Crit=113068|82090|189883|18.8%
  Constant Buffs: attack_haste/attack_power_multiplier/critical_strike/honor_among_thieves/mastery/moonkin_form/spell_haste
  Constant Buffs: spell_power_multiplier/stamina/str_agi_int
  Dynamic Buffs:
    berserking               : start= 3.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=180.9 trigger=180.9 uptime= 7%  benefit= 8%
    bloodlust                : start= 1.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=  0.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime= 9%  benefit=11%
    celestial_alignment      : start= 2.7 refresh=  0.0 interval=189.4 trigger=189.4 uptime= 9%
    chosen_of_elune          : start= 2.9 refresh=  0.0 interval=181.9 trigger=181.9 uptime=19%  benefit=26%
    dream_of_cenarius_damage : start=26.6 refresh=  0.0 interval= 17.3 trigger= 17.9 uptime=87%
    essence_of_terror        : start= 4.2 refresh=  0.0 interval=122.8 trigger=122.8 uptime=18%
    jade_serpent_potion      : start= 2.0 refresh=  0.0 interval=207.0 trigger=  0.0 uptime=10%
    jade_spirit              : start= 8.8 refresh=  0.0 interval= 54.2 trigger= 54.2 uptime=23%  benefit=23%
    lunar_eclipse            : start=12.9 refresh=  0.0 interval= 35.8 trigger= 35.8 uptime=41%  benefit=81%
    lunar_shower             : start=43.0 refresh=  7.5 interval= 10.6 trigger=  9.0 uptime=31%  benefit=15%
    natures_grace            : start=23.6 refresh=  2.8 interval= 19.2 trigger= 17.2 uptime=84%
    natures_swiftness        : start= 7.0 refresh=  0.0 interval= 69.1 trigger= 69.1 uptime=13%  benefit=27%
    relic_of_yulon           : start= 8.3 refresh=  0.0 interval= 57.3 trigger= 57.3 uptime=27%
    shooting_stars           : start=47.4 refresh= 16.6 interval=  9.4 trigger=  7.0 uptime=29%  benefit=91%
    solar_eclipse            : start=14.2 refresh=  0.0 interval= 31.6 trigger= 31.6 uptime=38%  benefit=61%
    starfall                 : start=15.8 refresh=  0.0 interval= 29.4 trigger= 30.8 uptime=35%
  Gains:
    674501.7 : mp5_regen (mana)
    1629682.3 : eclipse   (mana)  (overflow=41.2%)

Couldn't you potentially get to the next eclipse before the one dot expires, with some crits and a decent amount of haste? Then what? You cast the 2nd dot (which is now Eclipse buffed) and then cast HT? Now you have 2 charges with 1 already buffed, eclipsed dot ticking.

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Old 08/08/12, 4:05 AM   #510
Fleuria
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
You should run all the test again given the fact DoC is going to get nerfed, my guess icarnation and nvb will be back on top, also the scale facts need to be shown as haste has probs gone way back up in value now.
Last edited by Fleuria : 08/08/12 at 7:39 AM.

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