Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 42

fountaiin · 08/22/12, 12:15 AM

If DoC does make a comeback, are we looking at a HT and two DoC'd dots, then again before we leave eclipse? Or would we do 1 HT per eclipse and only the eclipsed dot twice.

Obviously a doc'd sunfire in Lunar is more DPET than a nuke, but doing a two healing rotation between eclipses seems like it would butcher our NG uptime. Not to mention how painfully awkward DoC feels on 3+ multidot scenario.

♦ Tecton · 08/22/12, 3:30 AM

Originally Posted by fountaiin

If DoC does make a comeback, are we looking at a HT and two DoC'd dots, then again before we leave eclipse? Or would we do 1 HT per eclipse and only the eclipsed dot twice.

As a disclaimer: I've not checked the specifics on this in Simcraft in a couple of builds. But last time around the optimal DoC rotation (i.e. 1 DoT/2 DoT) changed depending on your level of gear, with 2 DoTs being better at low levels and 1 DoT being better at high gear levels (especially after 4t14). SotF also got better than Incarnation while in low level of raid gear (with 4t14). I'm planning to recheck this tonight unless Starfox beats me to it.

thedopefishlives · 08/22/12, 8:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tecton

As a disclaimer: I've not checked the specifics on this in Simcraft in a couple of builds. But last time around the optimal DoC rotation (i.e. 1 DoT/2 DoT) changed depending on your level of gear, with 2 DoTs being better at low levels and 1 DoT being better at high gear levels (especially after 4t14). SotF also got better than Incarnation while in low level of raid gear (with 4t14). I'm planning to recheck this tonight unless Starfox beats me to it.

As far as I can tell, the 65% strength is not enough to knock it into 1-DoT territory. I could be wrong, however.

♦ Tecton · 08/22/12, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by thedopefishlives

As far as I can tell, the 65% strength is not enough to knock it into 1-DoT territory. I could be wrong, however.

No, you're probably right, was just saying how things wound up the last time around. If these kids chill out any time soon, I'll run a few sims. Just taking the basic T14H profile and changing it back to DoC, however, yields 105382 DPS. Pretty decent!

Some observations on the rotation (I realise some of these may be difficult to nail down):

We are hardcasting a Healing Touch during Celestial Alignment at the moment. We probably want to use our NS there instead of during Incarnation alone.
The DoTs are being cast backwards (i.e. we should cast Sunfire then Moonfire in Lunar, and Moonfire then Sunfire in Solar). We'd get a small benefit from Lunar Shower on the Eclipsed DoT if we did that.
It's also casting Sunfire just before Incarnation in the test I just ran when the Incarnation cooldown is coming off.
Jade Serpent Potion is being used after Celestial Alignment, which seems non-optimal. It lasts 25 seconds, so we should probably use it after popping Incarnation so they both get the benefit?

Stommped · 08/22/12, 8:12 PM

I don't think saying 2 DOT vs 1 DOT is clarification enough. As Fountaiin stated above, the 2 DOT rotation can mean a lot of things. It can mean:

Cast Healing Touch upon entering Eclipse (or the cast right before so as to not waste NG) cast both of your dots, then simply proceed to the next Eclipse, likely letting them fall off before getting there (this would be better probably with SotF so would have to check that).
Do the same as above, except cast a second HT right before leaving Eclipse so you can clip BOTH the Eclipsed dot and Noneclipsed dot.
Do the same as above except ONLY clip the Eclipsed dot, let the other one fall off, use the remaining charge on the new Eclipsed dot, then recast HT for the Uneclipsed dot AND the Clipping cast of the Eclipsed dot. This would be 3 HTs per cycle and probably feel a lot clunkier.

Also have to start to look into multi dot situations and whether or not it is beneficial to cast HT before dotting 2,3,4,5 mobs etc etc. This would obviously destroy nature's grace uptime, as well as Starfall uptime.

We are hardcasting a Healing Touch during Celestial Alignment at the moment. We probably want to use our NS there instead of during Incarnation alone.

In situations where we go from Incarnation right into CA as we exit Lunar, we don't want to be casting any more HTs than necessary, which I believe should only be one. So I THINK the best rotation would be cast HT right before hitting Lunar, cast both dots, cast another Healing Touch, THEN use Incarnation. So we would lose that Moonfire being buffed by Incarnation. Now we should carry that 2 stack into CA, which would both get eaten upon casting Moonfire. We then would have to cast the one HT during this Incarnation to use when we refresh Moonfire during CA as it's about to expire. And as you said this would be the ideal time for NS HT. Being that NS is a 1 minute CD and CA is 3 minutes we should never have to waste any NS's by holding them for CA, as it should always line up as you long as you are using it on CD.

Mathris · 08/24/12, 1:02 AM

Anyone else got raid test dummy result using a INC/NV build ?

In two different raid test dummy kill i was able to pull 51 940 dps and 51 246 dps with build 16016.

My stats were :
19527 SP
3266 haste
5135 hit
1855 crit
5069 mastery

This was performed with unenchanted/ungemmed PvP gear
I used 4 PC balance and 1 PC (shoulders) resto
MH + OH combo
spirit gears for neck, cloak, bracers, belt and boots

I was refreshing DoTs using the following pattern

When reaching eclipse always apply the eclipse DoT first (this is to have the highest uptime on eclipsed DoT)
apply uneclipse DoT only when the previous one ends (since it's an eclipsed DoT from previous eclipse)
refresh eclipse DoT before leaving eclipse state (regardless of clipping since we still have NG)
do not refresh unclipsed DoT until the next eclipse state (it may result with DoT wearing off before next eclipse)

The only time i was not applying the eclipsed DoT right away is when coming back from NV/INC/CA since the current DoTs are stronger than the one i would apply. In this case i was usually applying the eclipsed DoT only one time.

This seems pretty complicated at first since both DoT needs to be refreshed at different time but i believe this leads to better overall DPET of our DoTs.

BioFreak · 08/24/12, 12:22 PM

Dream of Cenarius
Wrath, Starfire, Starsurge, and melee abilities increase healing done by your next healing spell by 30%. Tranquility is not affected.

Nourish, Healing Touch, and Regrowth increase the damage done by your next 2 Moonfire or Sunfire casts by 65% or by your next 2 melee abilities by 25%.

Each of these bonuses lasts 30 sec.

[Seal of the Seven Signs]
+
[Insignia of the Corrupted Mind]
=
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3...2412180209.jpg
Stacking heal and DPS trinket

Not really a problem for me tbh. It just makes Balance druids and healing trinkets viable.

Zenbu · 08/24/12, 5:44 PM

Like we need another reason for healers to hate us, we already roll on the spirit rings/necks/cloaks/weapons. Now we can roll on the on heal trinkets. =)

magojo · 08/25/12, 8:02 AM

Itemlevel 463 blues is afaik the heroic 5-man gear.

Armor - Items - World of Warcraft
Above link should show you most of the leveling gear and dungeon pre-raid gear.

Edit: Added a link with only intellect or agility items and removed trinkets from the listing.

Lunarafe · 08/25/12, 4:10 PM

Has anyone tested the raid test dummy using the talents HOTW and Incarnation for Balance druids? Doing a full cat rotation during the Hotw buff, and probably using feral charge as a talent as well to help get in and out of melee. I have seen logs on the blizzard forums reporting better dps than Inc and NV, but I would also like to see if anyone tested to compare with Doc builds.

Zenbu · 08/25/12, 4:38 PM

Ya, I've seen a few people doing a cat rotation with the HotW buff for 45 seconds as balance. I doubt it will be viable for long, though they do let Demonology Warlocks become melee characters for extended periods of fights. Maybe they'll leave it alone and let us choose to run in and do some burst cat dps, though I haven't looked at our cat kit as balance, what is the rotation, claw x 5 FB?

Lunarafe · 08/25/12, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by Zenbu

Ya, I've seen a few people doing a cat rotation with the HotW buff for 45 seconds as balance. I doubt it will be viable for long, though they do let Demonology Warlocks become melee characters for extended periods of fights. Maybe they'll leave it alone and let us choose to run in and do some burst cat dps, though I haven't looked at our cat kit as balance, what is the rotation, claw x 5 FB?

Apparently there isn't much to do in the cat form rotation, it's basically about keeping Rake up, Mangle spam and 5cp FB. One important thing is switching weapons, then casting HotW, and proceeding with the cat rotation. And at one second left on HotW, refreshing Rake, and switching back to caster weapons. The difference between switching weapons and not switching is very significant from what I have seen.

The log from the raid test dummy I mentioned on my other post is on this page:
The direction of Boomies. - Forums - World of Warcraft

The direct link to it:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

thx to Wens, from Kilrogg, who did this test.

Zenbu · 08/25/12, 5:48 PM

Ya, I can't imagine that staying as is till live. As interesting as it would be to be a mooncat. =)

Metroid · 08/29/12, 6:17 PM

Does anyone know if Celestial Alignment/Incarnation works the same way that Metamorphosis did with Warlocks back in cata, where Metamorphosis would snapshot the mastery/haste/SP prior to it being popped, or is Inc/CA dynamic with stats? Because if it Snapshots maybe it would be viable to gear swap for the extra stats, but its just a speculation

Karepow · 08/29/12, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by Metroid

Does anyone know if Celestial Alignment/Incarnation works the same way that Metamorphosis did with Warlocks back in cata, where Metamorphosis would snapshot the mastery/haste/SP prior to it being popped, or is Inc/CA dynamic with stats? Because if it Snapshots maybe it would be viable to gear swap for the extra stats, but its just a speculation

Testing it now. Give me a few minutes to get back to you.

EDIT: They are dynamic. Confirmed.