[Balance] Cataclysm 4.2 Firelands (OLD) - Page 7

Latas · 07/06/11, 8:23 PM

Originally Posted by blowtorch

Wild Mushrooms now applies Earth and Moon to targets that are affected by it. So they will definitely end up with E&M at some point.

How does this work though? You have a few targets that you DoT up, then use E&M, a few seconds in. Do the rest of the ticks benefit from the increased damage?

Though most times when we are multidotting the targets are fairly spread out and or moving. Not sure mushrooms should entirely be counted on in that model.

Berthold · 07/07/11, 1:55 AM

Tracking the different debuffs on the second and third target is something that simcraft can't do right now.
If simcraft were capable of doing that, I expect the following changes: Every dotting scenario (besides solar cleave) would lose ~25% (E&M, crit, etc.) on the second and third dot, but not changing the order at all. However, solar cleave would be comparable stronger if you assume that you always hit all targets with the shrooms. If you do not, you need to remove ~5k dps for each target. (i.e. 3dot_solar_cleave with shrooms constantly hitting only one target would have ~37k dps instead of ~47k dps).

And for blowtorch's question: The debuffs are checked every tick, so yes, as soon as E&M is on the target, the dot will hit harder.

Berthold · 07/08/11, 3:11 AM

I have a question for anyone using solar cleave (e.g., p1 at Beth'tilac or p1 at Rhyolith): Which third glyph are you using? Yesterday I went with wrath for the burnphases afterwards, but it could make sense to use Starfire as neither GoW nor GoSS have any use during p1 and although the tooltip does not really indicate it, Starfire does extend the latest Sunfire.

• Hamlet · 07/08/11, 3:41 AM

Either Starfire for better DPS on P1 things like Sparks or Wrath for P2 is seems fine. I'd probably go with Starfire since it helps in P2 anyway.

Also, calling it "Solar cleave" is weird since, even though it's the latest 100% Solar strategy, it doesn't involve Sunfire spam (at least not the way I've been doing it at Rhyolith). The problem is that we still can't leave Solar because our AoE pretty much requires it, so instead of Sunfire spam as a filler, we just use uneclipsed Starfire. This is pretty much the problem that was expected from PTR: removing Sunfire spam hasn't changed the fact that we need to sit in Solar, because there's no Lunar AoE.

W.r.t. recent talent discussion: I'm find Dreamstate to be very helpful at Rhyolith, and I think Beth'tilac will be the same (although this all might depend somewhat on strategy).

Finally, when Innervating yourself with Dreamstate, remember to do it during a DMC:V proc.

• Hamlet · 07/08/11, 5:01 AM

The discovery on the Resto thread that Wild Growth is now affected by Gift of Nature gave me a hunch. I checked on live and found that I was right--Wild Mushroom is being affected by Moonfury.

anathor · 07/08/11, 7:07 AM

Originally Posted by Berthold

I have a question for anyone using solar cleave (e.g., p1 at Beth'tilac or p1 at Rhyolith): Which third glyph are you using?

I'm using Wrath but mostly because I'm lazy, and because on the spider boss at least it's useful for the (potentially long) burn phase. However I think I would use GoSS to maximise dps: it's still possible to cast quite a few instant SS and still stay in solar, and Starfall is quite powerful given the number of adds up at any given time (in other words, there's always at least 2 adds up in p1 of the spider boss). Apart from the drones, no adds seem to survive long enough for Sunfire to ever drop out.

I also noticed that WM damage outside of solar was really ridiculously lower than in solar, mostly because the effect is basically multiplied by 3. I wouldn't say WM outside of solar is useless, but it sure seemed pretty weak.

Fleuria · 07/08/11, 8:45 AM

On our LR kill on Heroic I just sat in solar the whole fight, dotted obsidium and shroomed the fuck out of fragments under the boss and hurricaned when needed and to dps spark i just dotted and spammed starfire(Ended around 33kish dps first phase), Yes I had to use some gimp mana spec(talent under Euphoria/moonglow/2/3 Furor) but In the last burn phases I still finished 4th so wasn't to bad but you can't leave Solar that first phase or your dps is like... horrible.

Latas · 07/08/11, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

The discovery on the Resto thread that Wild Growth is now affected by Gift of Nature gave me a hunch. I checked on live and found that I was right--Wild Mushroom is being affected by Moonfury.

Just the damage increase portion or the crit increase portion as well? Also is hurricane and typhoon also then being affected by it?

• Hamlet · 07/08/11, 1:17 PM

Just the damage portion, I meant--WM was the only spell not being affected by that before.

crmccar · 07/08/11, 1:28 PM

Starfall is quite powerful given the number of adds up at any given time (in other words, there's always at least 2 adds up in p1 of the spider boss)

It was my understanding that starfall now drops all its stars whether you have 1 target in range or a whole group of them. And since they removed the splash damage, isn't it true that it's not an AOE spell at all anymore? Seems like you should just be using it on cooldown or whenever you need an extra burst of damage.

qae · 07/08/11, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by crmccar

It was my understanding that starfall now drops all its stars whether you have 1 target in range or a whole group of them.

It was true for 2-3 days in the patch that stopped it from aggroing non-fighting mobs, since Blizzard allowed the stars to fall twice as fast. Unfortunately they didn't limit the maximum number of stars fired correctly, so it ended up firing 20 stars on 1 target, and up to 40 on 2+.

Obviously that was way to much, so they reverted it to 10 stars on 1 target, 20 on 2+. Now why they didn't just limit the maximum number of stars fired to 20 whatever the number of targets in range is not known, but they just didn't.

Fonzey · 07/09/11, 4:47 PM

On the topic of starfall, WrathCalcs is giving me a significant DPS increase by using Starfall only in Lunar. Based on that, has anybody put any thought into whether it's worth stalling eclipses to make more use of this?

• Hamlet · 07/09/11, 5:26 PM

That's an option that has to commented better in WC. Right now it assumes you cast exactly one Starfall every Lunar Eclipse. You should really only use it if you're using Glyph of Starsurge in a normal-length cycle. The main reason it exists is to help evaluate Glyph of Starsurge.

crmccar · 07/10/11, 4:11 AM

Obviously that was way to much, so they reverted it to 10 stars on 1 target, 20 on 2+. Now why they didn't just limit the maximum number of stars fired to 20 whatever the number of targets in range is not known, but they just didn't.

I assume because that would be more burst damage within the buff time of starfall than they wanted to allow.

Berthold · 07/10/11, 3:37 PM

Another option for getting the t12_4pc bonus is to take the shoulder as off piece and either pick resto tier12 or shoulders from shannox with the right suffix, i.e. Feverflare.
T4 + Firecat leggings: 29318
T4 + Resto Shoulders: 29323
T4 + Shannox Shoulders: 29352

So they are basically equal according to latest simcraft.
The nice thing about the last option is that the shoulders and the legtoken are easy to acquire on heroic, so you might want to use that path.

credit goes to minze, whom I can't pm due to his accent on the i.